Cablevision Chairman To Use Cash, Stock To Fund Voom

niceprophet

niceprophet

SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 28, 2005
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GadgetRick said:
Ok, you're still talking 3 and a half YEARS! Have you NOT seen what this country just went through??? Most investors are NOT interested in spending this amount of money for so long before (maybe) receiving a return. This is the problem. You (and many others) are arguing with people like myself (and others) here but you don't seem to understand we're not saying they're going under. We're looking at the facts we do know and saying, "It's gonna be tough to survive."

Rick,

Honestly, do you know anything abou venture capitalism? Seriously. The AVERAGE time it takes a start-up business to break even is 3 years... Also, you talk about "what this country just went through." The market has been expanding now for about 2.5 years straight. The DOW and the NASDAQ are up about 35% in that time period, which means capital and investors ARE buying into the market.

Now, as far as Voom operating at a huge loss, you need to consider this: Most of the "loss money" has already been spent... The start-up costs are enormous, and they've already been spent - they reflect in the budget now because they have been amortized over several years. However, whether or not Voom is in business, it needs to pay for all of those costs unless it files for bankruptcy protection. Secondly, their are ADDITIONAL costs incurred when closing down (e.g. canceling vendor contracts, legal paperwork, severance pay, collection costs to reclaim leased assets, etc.)

So, since it is going to cost them money anyway, doesn't it make sense that they make a full-court press to try to turn a profit, or at least get some return for their losses. You need to remember that it may cost $75 million to run Voom right now, but it will take hundreds of millions to shut Voom down.
 
G

GadgetRick

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 11, 2004
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Rick,

Honestly, do you know anything abou venture capitalism? Seriously. The AVERAGE time it takes a start-up business to break even is 3 years... Also, you talk about "what this country just went through." The market has been expanding now for about 2.5 years straight. The DOW and the NASDAQ are up about 35% in that time period, which means capital and investors ARE buying into the market.
HONESTLY, uhhhh, YES I DO know a thing or two about venture capital. Have you actually READ what I've written??? Have I ONCE disagreed with the fact it'll take many years to break even/become profitable???? How about going back and reading my posts before trying to argue with me. What I've been saying is I KNOW it will take time. I KNOW it will cost money. However, nobody seems to be willing to step up and invest in Voom. Am I wrong? If I am then why are we even having this discussion????

Now, as far as Voom operating at a huge loss, you need to consider this: Most of the "loss money" has already been spent... The start-up costs are enormous, and they've already been spent - they reflect in the budget now because they have been amortized over several years. However, whether or not Voom is in business, it needs to pay for all of those costs unless it files for bankruptcy protection. Secondly, their are ADDITIONAL costs incurred when closing down (e.g. canceling vendor contracts, legal paperwork, severance pay, collection costs to reclaim leased assets, etc.)
And no, the, "loss money," has NOT already been spent. Sure, they put a satellite up--which they've just sold to Echostar. Sure, they built an uplink facility--which they've just sold I believe. So that money, although it's been spent, would need to be spent again in some way shape or form whether it's through a lease or another purchase (unless, of course, the sale doesn't go through--another discussion).

Also, it still costs them a LOT of money to gain a new sub. We can all argue how much it costs but nobody around here really knows just how much a sub cost but we know it ain't cheap. Add to that the dropout rate they've experienced. Again, none of us knows what it is but we all have a feeling it's fairly high. This also costs them money. So they've still got a lot more money they need to spend in order to get the ball rolling. Again, I agree with this but nobody is stepping up to invest in Voom. Am I wrong???

So, since it is going to cost them money anyway, doesn't it make sense that they make a full-court press to try to turn a profit, or at least get some return for their losses. You need to remember that it may cost $75 million to run Voom right now, but it will take hundreds of millions to shut Voom down.
Absolutely, however, in order to do this, they need money. They don't have money right now. If you're asking me whether I feel CVC should invest further in Voom I'd say no. If I were a CVC stockholder (heck, I may be in one of my funds and I may not realize it), I'd want them to sell it off, too. From a business standpoint, it makes sense for them. If you really believe Voom can survive in the current environment (I, honestly, don't believe they can but I wish they could) then I'd say someone should invest in the company. Apparently, many other people seem to agree with that line of thought--that Voom can't survive in the current environment. Doesn't make us right or wrong. Just what many of us believe. It also doesn't mean we don't want Voom to survive.

The Rickster
 
RRaymo

RRaymo

Member
Mar 2, 2005
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I truly wonder if we are missing the point here...

With proper marketing, delivery, installation, et al, Voom can be profitable in three years.

Many of us wonder if the HD (mostly) only aspect to the marketing is hurting them more than helping... It is one thing to put this out as a full on competitor to D*TV and EchoS (with a great deal more HD and growing.) and calling the programming future proof. It is another to ignore the vast bulk of TV users in America. That is and would continue to be suicidal.

I know what Hughes and USSB lost in their first years.

I know that Voom can do better with the proper oversight and targeting.

I also know that there has been ongoing improvement since we went beta 19 months ago.

Sears ought to be thrown out the nearest window.

Voom needs to combine their dollar install deal with each new HD Display sale from a good number of CE manufacturers (with a minimum break even contract that requires payout on early cancellation--like the cell biz used to be.)

Voom can and should be targeted at a wide demo but Woman, Sports guys, and technophiles are the HD target.... The SD target needs to be those who want great 4X3 S-Video content that others aren't offered and plan to upgrade in the coming year.

Voom should stick with the OTA effort as it stands rather than getting into a crazed escalation with Spot Beaming Sat. costs to match D*TV and Echo. They can do a deal for all of the networks east/west feeds for those outside OTA distance (although with a good ChannelMaster or WineGuard 60 Mile 8-Bay or YAGI, most can get good signals with current gen tuners.)

Voom needs to consider a deal with someone like TIVO for multiple DVR choices (and GUI improvements. Grin.)

If they can get the funding and know that they are on plan for profit in three years--all efforts should go toward the goal of the fastest changover from Rainbow 1 to the leased/other bird (Rainbow 2, sort of...) and straight into MPEG 4.

Not because this will wow technophiles (TBD there) but rather because they can cram more content in and offer a wide-load of goods to Joe and Jane Sixpack.

It is clear that FOX gets a leg up in re: DirecTV (even though that might sound like FCC-actionable heretical noise.) Thus Voom needs to have deals in play with Viacom/Redstone, Time-Warner (especially with the Home Box history) and any and all who might give exclusives on launch for new channels or offer syndication of quality goods to Voom's exclusive channels. Yes, Adult Swim from Cartoon Network would be ideal for nighttime Animania, and so forth.

So, if they can pull of funding for three years and put together a fair plan to have ROI by the end of that time, Dolan needs a few visionaries who remember that the public will never care about DVI/LCD/HDCP/UltraHD or whatever the current buzzwords are...

They want someone who can ride the fence between us and Timmy and Tammy TrailerPark and do it with aplomb.

[Soapbox returned to those in line.]
 
RRaymo

RRaymo

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Mar 2, 2005
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PS. Wouldn't it be reasonable to offer Mark Cuban premium placement for any and all of his efforts and a cut of the profits (via Warrents or straight cash) and a seat on the board as a NonExec Member?
He'd probably be thrilled to be working with someone with some vision--and clearly there hasn't been much if we don't even have HD-Net yet. Grin.
 
J

James Long

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Oct 24, 2003
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RRaymo said:
With proper marketing, delivery, installation, et al, Voom can be profitable in three years.
The first step is to be there in three weeks.

I hope they find the visionaries needed to fund Voom beyond March 31st.
As an investor, it would be good to see quarterly progress toward profitable.
The first goal: Increase revenue every quarter.
The second goal: Decrease operational losses.
It is going to cost the visionaries a lot of money and patience to reach these goals. I wish them luck finding such visionaries in today's world.

JL
 
G

gutter

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May 26, 2004
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RRaymo said:
PS. Wouldn't it be reasonable to offer Mark Cuban premium placement for any and all of his efforts and a cut of the profits (via Warrents or straight cash) and a seat on the board as a NonExec Member?
He'd probably be thrilled to be working with someone with some vision--and clearly there hasn't been much if we don't even have HD-Net yet. Grin.

It has bene widely reported (even commented on by Cuban himself) that VOOM would never see his channels. Seems they just don't get along even though they share a similar vision about HD.
 
calikarim

calikarim

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Apr 19, 2004
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HD is coming around

If HD were not going to be big business why is everyone, Direct Tv, cable companies scrabling to put up new satellites, spend tens of millions of dollars in infrastructure? They know how big hd will be. When HD Dvd comes out this FALL in a few months, hd will be replacing standard DVD's there will be a huge cry for HD. Even most computers in fall will have blue ray readers and writers in them. Hd will be on most new computers this falll

Voom will be perfectly positioned to capture a huge segment of the market. Currrently 8 million sets in the UNited States will jump to over 40 million in the next two years. All potential customers.

Talking about return on investment. How many of us have CD's in banks with 18 month maturity , or treasure bill for 3/5 years for maturity lots of people. 3 years on an investment is not a lot to ask for a high growth area like HD. Hd is like broadband when it competed with 56 K dialup. IN the beginning it was a luxury now it is more the norm than the execption.

Trolls only wish the demise of voom. They are voom haters. They will use logic to defend their negative point of view. White is Black to them. No matter what Dolan does , it will look bleak. They are like lawyers defending guilty murderers, they know they are lying but they still present their logic in the best light to make a criminal seem like an angel to the jury.

Voom is the Best thing to happen to Television
 
G

GadgetRick

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Apr 11, 2004
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Hmm...

Trolls only wish the demise of voom. They are voom haters. They will use logic to defend their negative point of view. White is Black to them. No matter what Dolan does , it will look bleak. They are like lawyers defending guilty murderers, they know they are lying but they still present their logic in the best light to make a criminal seem like an angel to the jury.
"They will use logic to defend their negative point of view." Let me think about that line for just a moment...Ok, I'm done. What are you smoking!!?? So you're saying people SHOULDN'T be logical when discussing things like this!!?? What, we should all just drink the kool-aid and pray at the feet of Dolan because Voom is cool???? Get off it...

You're just like the people I've been talking about--Voom will survive because I WANT it to survive. Well, guess what? It DOESN'T work that way in business. You still have to make money. You still need money in order to stay in business if you're NOT making money (like Voom). If Dolan doesn't find some money somewhere (whether it's from someone else or in his sofa) Voom will cease to exist unless someone comes and provides, guess what...MONEY! Am I making this up? Am I saying anyting which is not true?

I don't disagree with your statement about Voom being the best thing to happen to HDTV, however, this doesn't mean it'll succeed. Also, as I've said before, just because there are people like me around here who are stating the obvious (i.e. Voom needs MONEY to keep going and they're having a tough time getting it.) doesn't mean we WANT Voom to fail.

Now, please pass me the pipe you're smokin...

The Rickster
 
G

gutter

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GadgetRick said:
"It DOESN'T work that way in business. You still have to make money. You still need money in order to stay in business if you're NOT making money (like Voom). If Dolan doesn't find some money somewhere (whether it's from someone else or in his sofa) Voom will cease to exist unless someone comes and provides, guess what...MONEY! Am I making this up? Am I saying anyting which is not true?
The Rickster

Interesting again that D* still hasn't made money and is still in business. This is not a critisism of D* just that some business types have a longer cycle than others. You know as well as I that 7 years is an average for a major new business to turn a profit. Sometimes longer. For D* it has been 12 years?
 
K

kelljc

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 16, 2005
284
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gutter said:
Interesting again that D* still hasn't made money and is still in business. This is not a critisism of D* just that some business types have a longer cycle than others. You know as well as I that 7 years is an average for a major new business to turn a profit. Sometimes longer. For D* it has been 12 years?
losing money in business is the in thing to do:, did the upper tier get their cut: you can bet on it: so take what you read as a FACT:,this is for the poor slob's who buy stock: you know 100 shares or so,
 
riffjim4069

riffjim4069

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Apr 7, 2004
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I'm sure Microsoft and Sony lose big buck$ selling games sytems...however, I'm sure they make a buck or two selling and licensing their game software. Content is king!
 
G

GadgetRick

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 11, 2004
394
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Near NYC
:::sigh:::

Interesting again that D* still hasn't made money and is still in business. This is not a critisism of D* just that some business types have a longer cycle than others. You know as well as I that 7 years is an average for a major new business to turn a profit. Sometimes longer. For D* it has been 12 years?
AGAIN, DTV can get away with, "losing," money because they have 13.5 MILLION subs. They probably sign up as many subs in a month Voom has eeked out in over a year. So they get a little slack since they've built a business and are investing the money in that business. DTV could show a profit pretty quickly if they were told to stop expanding, stop building satellites, etc. Voom isn't showing any signs of life so people aren't gonna cut them slack.

Can't make it any plainer than that. You really can't compare what Voom is losing to what DTV has lost. It's not a fair comparison.

The Rickster
 
G

gutter

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
May 26, 2004
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GadgetRick said:
You really can't compare what Voom is losing to what DTV has lost. It's not a fair comparison.

The Rickster

I know in your world you can decide what is fact and what isn't. Just because you say it is so doesn't make it "so." You screaming "its over" isn't going to change Dolan's mind until he is ready. Wait for the rollercoaster to stop and see you stays and who gets off. Better yet, contact C. Dolan and charge him a few million to listen to your advice. You would save him a billion and he would pay you a bonus. :cool:
 
T

truqui

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 4, 2004
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Miramar, FL
News that shows how to save loses...

Tivo was adding subs like crazy with their rebate program but was losing money with huge deficits in their 4Q 2004 financials...

Now read this and see what was in the works...Tivo - Comcast

Voom Executives need to get creative and find ways that will enable them to find funding and continue...BTW I believe they do have a plan and it's on it's way. Will we all be happy? Who knows!
 
G

gutter

SatelliteGuys Pro
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May 26, 2004
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Reading this forum, one thing is for sure. No matter what happens or how it happens...or how it doesen't happen... somebody won't be happy.
 
K

kelljc

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 16, 2005
284
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gutter said:
Reading this forum, one thing is for sure. No matter what happens or how it happens...or how it doesen't happen... somebody won't be happy.
Very good Post " U got that Right "
 
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GadgetRick

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 11, 2004
394
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Near NYC
Hmm...

I know in your world you can decide what is fact and what isn't. Just because you say it is so doesn't make it "so." You screaming "its over" isn't going to change Dolan's mind until he is ready. Wait for the rollercoaster to stop and see you stays and who gets off. Better yet, contact C. Dolan and charge him a few million to listen to your advice. You would save him a billion and he would pay you a bonus.
Yet again someone who doesn't read what I'm posting. How about stepping outside of YOUR world and reading what I'm saying. I have not said anything is so which is not true. They do NOT have funding (in any officially announced capacity). Without funding, they will not survive. Please explain how this is incorrect. I'm all ears.

I never have screamed it's over. I have, from the start of the problems, said it would be tough to obtain funding for Voom. So far I have been proven correct in this. Have I said anything which isn't true yet?

And I've never tried giving anyone advice. Many others have given advice--and that's cool, too--it is, afterall a public forum for people to gather and discuss these kinds of issues. As you said to me, just because you say it's so doesn't make it correct. Just because you say Voom is going to survive doesn't mean they will. Just because you feel someone should step up and provide funding doesn't mean anyone actually will.

Again, how about actually reading my posts before telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.

The Rickster
 
G

gutter

SatelliteGuys Pro
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May 26, 2004
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GadgetRick said:
They do NOT have funding (in any officially announced capacity). Without funding, they will not survive. Please explain how this is incorrect. I'm all ears.

Your ears still hear what they want but your eyes choose to ignore what it sees. This was a formal announcement.

=======================

JERICHO, N.Y., Feb. 28 /PRNewswire/ -- VOOM HD, LLC today announced that it is prepared to finance the continued expansion of the VOOM satellite service. Supported by the family interests of Charles and Thomas Dolan, VOOM HD, LLC has advised Cablevision that it continues to be interested in completing a transaction on the terms and conditions of the Letter of Intent into which the two companies entered several weeks ago. These include the purchase of assets and the assumption of liabilities related to the satellite service.

:p
 

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