Can Dish Stop the Bleeding? Is Dish Bleeding?

[tigerfan33]

The topic is confusing so let me explain. Since the CES and the Dish news conference many have expressed concern about Dish and the direction the company is going. I am concerned but I am not dropping Dish altogether. I am adding Direct, like several of you have also. I would like to get every ones opinion of the company now, since the CES. Has it changed?? Are you looking at a new direction to another tv provider or maybe add another and still hang onto Dish. It just seems to me a lot of people here are looking elsewhere. It seems to me Dish is bleeding but maybe not as bad as people think. It will be interesting to see the financial report from the last q. of 07. I would not know how to read it though since the split of the company. So, that is my take. What is yours??

 

[darrencp22]

The topic is confusing so let me explain. Since the CES and the Dish news conference many have expressed concern about Dish and the direction the company is going. I am concerned but I am not dropping Dish altogether. I am adding Direct, like several of you have also. I would like to get every ones opinion of the company now, since the CES. Has it changed?? Are you looking at a new direction to another tv provider or maybe add another and still hang onto Dish. It just seems to me a lot of people here are looking elsewhere. It seems to me Dish is bleeding but maybe not as bad as people think. It will be interesting to see the financial report from the last q. of 07. I would not know how to read it though since the split of the company. So, that is my take. What is yours??

Dish is on the operating table with gang-green and going into cardiac arrest. There are some people here who will defend where this company is until the end of time. Call a spade a spade. Dish is losing marketshare and it's stock has been plummeting. Dish has been unable/unwilling to match the advancements of D*. To wait until later summer/fall (at the earliest) wont save this sinking ship. They need to figure out something that will allow them to tread water until then. I don't know if the management there is competent enough to realize this.

I personally will move to D* once the hockey season is over , unless there is significant improvement. I have a commitment, but i'm willing to take the hit at that point if necessary.

 

[boba]

I'm leaving on the 18th and it has nothing to do we HD. I sent an Email yesterday that I was leaving I got a pat on the backside and a don't let the door hit you on the way out. Also a phone number for the executive office, I guess that is just part of the executives email address.

 

[BigTimMN]

So then would you have said that D* was bleeding and near cardiac arrest when they didnt keep up with E* for the 2 years preceeding the last 4 months?

So lets call a spade a spade as you say, D* was unable to keep up with E* until the launch of new sats (and if i remember right, they were delayed due to launch issues - not the fault of D*).

E* is awaiting launch of new sats so it can expand its offering, and is also reshuffling items on existing sats to free up space, (Sats are delayed due to launch issues not the fault of E*)

stories seem eerily similar to me... its just that E* isnt out there 6-9 months ahead of sats going live trumpeting there "soon to have capacity" like D* did.

So it really looks like a leap frog game thats being delayed by launch failures on both sides, so really lets all blame SeaLaunch, etc for us not having all the HD

Now with that said, my commitment to Dish is up this month, and if there isnt any major progress on the launch issues, and its economically feasible to switch, I will be on D* come fall...

 

[Skyhi]

I love Dish. Their equipment alone makes me not even consider switching. I'd like some more HD channels, but I'm willing to wait a few months for it.

 

[Poke]

No Dish is fine it takes time to get new hardware up to add more HD and more improvements. Most TV Service Providers are going through the same thing right now so overall I think there is nothing to worry about. Dish will be fine we all must wait and see what is to come over the next month or so. So no DIsh is not Bleeding..

 

[kennya]

I agree with BigTimMN. E* was the HD leader for a long time over D* and now that D* was able to catch up and supass E* BECAUSE OF NEW SATS, everyone thinks E* is drowning. They arent, they just have to get the new birds in the air and everything will be fine as fas as more HD channels.

I will not leave E*, equipment is top notch and they will catch up on the HD this year.

 

[Poke]

Yeah Direct was behind for along time until they got their new sat. Heck Dish has done allot without even putting up a sat due to the way they been able to work with MPEG4. Once they get some new Sats up they will be fine and you never know maybe we will see some new HD before then. But right now AT&T,Verizon most all TV Service Providers are spending money on updating their Networks over the next year or two to offer better service so forth. Just something they all half to do to keep things up to date but it takes time and money to do these things.

Most folks are just think things should happen over night but does not always happen that way. Again the future looks really bright for Dish Customers we all just half to wait and see just like everyone else does not matter who you get your service from.

 

[thedamaja]

I guess i don't watch as much tv as most people but I just don't care about the new D* HD channels. If I'm not watching them now it's not going to happen if they are in HD. I've proved this to myself when E* added TBS and A&E HD.

The only channel that D* currently has that I would like is Speed HD but it's going to take more than that for me to put up with there clunky receivers.

 

[Weezknight]

I'm not too worried about E* vs D* or whatever, and I don't think that E* is necessarily bleeding either. It really comes down to what specific channels you are looking for as you can only really watch 1 at a time.

E* offers me the channels I want at a price that neither D* or Comcast can come close to. Especially once you add in the receivers I'm using.

As to the HD offerings, in February it seems I'll get to add a bunch of HD channels without adding anything to my bill as I'll go from the old 9.99 HD Pak to the new $10 HD essentials. It's no big deal either as most of the HD I watch is OTA anyway.

 

[Lifterguy]

Remember back in the days of the 921? Dish was making promises on hardware and HD and then regularly missing promised introduction dates. People on this forum complained bitterly. Many vowed to leave for other providers (including Voom.) Then Dish hit its stride with the introduction of the 622 and the addition of the Voom HD channels. Dish customers were (generally) happy and Direct TV customers complained about hardware, compression and lack of HD. Now once again the tables have turned (somewhat) and we're hearing the moaning from Dish subscribers. I've had Dish for 10 years, and I would be reluctant to switch providers because I love my 622 and I don't see anything equivalent from any other provider. I think Dish will catch up with the competition, but I think they are trying not to over promise the way they have at times in the past. I think they are also trying to balance new services and channels with overall cost - if they lose their edge as a low-price leader, they will lose even more subscribers. Am I a dish subscriber for life? Not necessarily. The right combination of equipment, channels and price could get me to switch. In my area, Comcast has lots of channels and unbeatable on-demand, but the equipment sucks and the price (after the teaser period) is too high. Verizon Fios TV might be tempting, but it's not in my neighborhood yet. Direct TV is probably the most tempting, but I still don't think I would like their DVR as much as the 622, and while they offer a few additional channels, the difference is not enough to make me switch.

 

[mike123abc]

Everyone wants to create so much drama. Probably less than 15% of Dish subscribers have Dish HD. Of that probably only a small % really know what is what about HD. And of those, most are probably under 18 month commitments. Dish is hardly bleeding because of this. Yes there are those in the know that are on this board, but that is just a tiny number of subs. And even those in the know on this board, a lot are under contract, perhaps long enough that some satellites could be launched.

We are looking at about 4 months (Oct 3rd launch?) of DIRECTV being ahead in national HD content. Even for the first month or so they were running close with VOOM vs some other channels. DIRECTV has clearly pulled ahead now. Dish was clearly ahead for a couple of years. DIRECTV will probably stay ahead for a while with LiL HD since the LiL capacity for 129 will probably be the last statellite launched.

In reality this probably does not even show up in churn numbers. I am sure Dish is well aware of what will happen in the future, hence launching satellites. But it is hardly a crisis now.

 

[ncted]

If Dish is bleeding then TWC is 6 feet under. I still think Dish's hardware is superior to D*, even with the fixes D* has come out with, and both are light years ahead of the cablecos. D* might be #1 right now in HD-capable channels, but Dish was #1 6 months ago, and I expect that seesaw battle to continue for some time.

Ted

 

[HD is LIFE]

Everyone wants to create so much drama. Probably less than 15% of Dish subscribers have Dish HD. Of that probably only a small % really know what is what about HD. And of those, most are probably under 18 month commitments. Dish is hardly bleeding because of this.

While what you say may or may not be true, it doesn't really address what is the real issue. All reports say that the sales of flat panel HDTV sets is very high right now, and that means that there are tons of new HDTV customers to be gotten. That is how I think things will be very negative for DISH NETWORK right now, and why the net new sub number will more than likely swing very strongly in the favor of the other company.

Remember people new to HDTV making a choice are not very savvy in many cases, and when they see the 85 HD channel thing it is indeed quite compelling. DIRECTV does a far better job of marketing its product than DISH ever did.

These companies have to reduce churn, but also have to be able to attract new customers. I don't think new customers rate thinigs like DVRS before makning their choices, they choose on the channels they can get that they want. A new customer stays with its provider for a long time, so this is a critical juncture to attract the first time HDTV buyer. The present customer (as you say correctly) probably does NOT have HDTV so they spend less, the new customers will probably have HDTV and thus spend more.

 

[eacalhoun]

Thankfully--from reading many other posts--I have not embraced HD, thus I am almost totally satisfied with DISH. Until my analog TVs die, I'll stick with them.
I am perfectly happy with the SD picture, my 2-room DVR, along with DISH's 2-tuner receivers. This is where I believe DISH leads over DirecTV. I have 4 tvs connected to only 2 receivers and this same setup would cost me more per month in extra receivers with DirecTV. I was with DirecTV for 6 years until this past July when I switched to DISH and have been pleased with my decision. However, DISH does lack in customer service with language barriers seeming to be the main culprit. Charlie needs to improve customer service either with better CSRs or utilize the website(and phone menu) so that customers have more flexibility in making changes to their account including more options in changing channels and packages.

Eric

 

[ripnbigc]

I'm willing to wait for Dish to add channels. I love my 622 and ext HD. It's only my wife and I, we only have the one receiver for three tvs. We're never watching more than one tv at a time. With Direct, I'd have to have 3 receivers.

 

[LosingPatience]

I've really struggled with this for months now.

Direct definitely has more of the programming that I want: Logo, SciFi HD, FX HD and the CWHD included in Chicago HD Locals. They are also way quicker than Dish at picking up new channels (still bitter that Trio came and went and Dish never had it, and not happy at all that Direct has had Logo for 2-3 years and Dish still doesn't).

BUT… Dish has, for me, a far, far better DVR. Yeah, Direct's HR20 has some cool features and it has 2 OTA tuners which would be awesome, but after following the forums for a couple of months it sure sounds like the Dish 921 all over again. I'm just not going down that road. The 921 is the reason for my screen name, and I don't want another DVR that needs babysitting. My 942 has me spoiled; I can't recall it ever missing a recording - even when I was away for 3 weeks - and it's been 2 years since I had to reboot it (froze up scanning for OTA, and I put a sticky note underneath it to mark the event: October 28, 2005). And it's not just reliability; it lacks some of the most basic and intuitive features of the Dish boxes. I've kept up to date with the HR20/21 improvements, and the simple fact is that I just don't like the way things work. I messed around with one at Best Buy last week and really didn't like it. I wanted to, but I just didn't. It's not that it's different, I can handle that; it's that it felt clunky. That's just my opinion. (It also locked up 10 minutes into my test drive and had to be rebooted...)

SO... I just did a DIU upgrade to a 722. They come out Friday. In the end it all came down to the hardware, and Dish won hands down. While I'd like the extra channels on Direct, I just can't see where that's enough to compensate me for the frustration of dealing with their DVR. Too bad, really, because I do think Direct is, and has been, the better programming provider.

 

[mike123abc]

These companies have to reduce churn, but also have to be able to attract new customers. I don't think new customers rate thinigs like DVRS before makning their choices, they choose on the channels they can get that they want. A new customer stays with its provider for a long time, so this is a critical juncture to attract the first time HDTV buyer. The present customer (as you say correctly) probably does NOT have HDTV so they spend less, the new customers will probably have HDTV and thus spend more.

No doubt not having the most HD hurts for new customer aquisitions. How much it hurts is not clear. It must hurt enough for them to give free HD DVRs.

The ideal provider would have the most HD, the cheapest prices, no commitments and free equipment and installation. Each provider values (or is forced to work around) various parts of this formula.

DIRECTV: currently most HD, likely to stay number 1 or tie for the next couple of years (they probably will have more capacity than Dish for a couple years, but Dish may be able to put up every available HD channel when their satellites go up, making it a tie). 2 year commitment, $$ for HD DVRs.

Dish: 2nd in most markets for HD. Has a good chance to catch up in HD channels, 18 month commitment (24 month next month), free DVR.

Cable: usually 3rd in HD, depends on markets some can match DIRECTV (like fios could). Short/no commitment, free equipment.

Costs are all up in the air. Since every cable company charges differently and even DIRECTV/Dish vary by a lot based on what equipment you have (DVR fees, # tuners, etc) that it is very hard to compare.

A blanket post like the first one in this thread saying Dish is going under not being able to offer a few HD channels is just hype. Dish is still the best solution for a segment of the market, DIRECTV has their segment and Cable has theirs. Many people may go to Dish over DIRECTV when they see the cost of HD up front (HD DVR lease upfront fees).

I personally am not under commitment with Dish, but I refuse to go to DIRECTV since there is no way to get DIRECTV HD without a 2 year commitment. Dish has done a better job servicing what I value. Yes I would love to see more HD on Dish, but I rather watch SciFi in standard definition for a few months to save a few hundred dollars (2 HD DVRs) and a 2 year commitment. If the cable company picked up more HD and had SciFi I might consider going there. I personally view the market as way too fluid for a 2 year commitment and I really hate the way the DBS market is moving to longer and longer.

 

[drummerguy]

I don't think Dish is bleeding (though I did make a comment about them hemorrhaging subscribers a while back), but for a few months, they seemed to be suffering from serious denial. But, finally, we got something that resembled a plan for this year when it comes to HD and new sats. I think that's what a lot of us wanted -- to know that they were actually doing something about the HD situation.

So, I'm not going anywhere either. I'll give Dish the benefit of the doubt for the remainder of the year. If they can fulfill their promises, then I'll be a happy camper. Though there are two specific HD channels I want "yesterday," I can definitely wait for all the others that Direct has now that Dish doesn't.

However, Dish does need to fix their marketing and advertising departments. They are losing the PR war with Direct very badly. They need to find an effective way to communicate their plan to people, the way Direct did. If they don't, then it won't matter how many sats they launch and how many new channels they add -- nobody will know about it because all anybody ever hears is how Direct is the HD leader.

Dish's current ads are not engaging. Nameless folks talking about "better TV for all" aren't as interesting and attention-grabbing as Sigourney Weaver battling mama alien while touting the benefits of DirectTV.

 

[JeremyL]

If it weren't for the 622 and the Superstation package, I'd look more seriously at switching to D*. I'm still not happy over the whole MLB Extra Innings deal and how casually Dish just disregarded its subscribers. I was in an 18 month commitment until October, so I couldn't leave. I bought the MLB.TV package and used my HTPC to watch the games last year, but it's not as convenient as just switching channels - I could switch around during commericals, etc.