Cascading two dp34's... what is the maximum distance between?

[Rollo Tomasi]

I have one installed on my Superdish mast. It feeds three coax lines to three receivers. I want to add a fourth reciever. I know I must move the coax feeds on the mast-mounted dp34 from the "to receiver input in" position to the "to additional switch" position. I don't want to mount them close together on the mast so my most desirable alternative is to mount the second dp34 in the basement where the three coax cable from the dish connect to the room feeds.

I read a post where one user daisy chained several dp34's [more than 3] and they were quite a distance apart and it worked for him. I'm hoping that the 50 feet or so that I'm using between switches will work ok.

 

[JPointerWI]

50ft shouldnt be a porblem. The question is, if you already have 3 lines running to the basement, why not just move both switches to the basement ?? Use barrel connectors at the dish where the switch used to be, move the switch(s) to the basement and connect your receivers there, that way most of your connections are indoors.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

I was also worried about distance between the dish and the 1st switch. Apparently, from your reply, that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

Right now I am doing a switch test and am getting nothing. All X's and 'no switch detected. I am using my origianally proposed setup with 50' between switches.

 

[TheDishNetworkInstaller]

Then you probably have a connection problem.

As 50' shouldn't be a problem. I did a 32 receiver install in a converted school. The 105 SD was 3 floors up (14' ceilings plus 2' thick floors and 3rd floor ceiling had a 4' air space) and we ran 8 DP34's in series to feed all 32 receivers. They'll be up to 60 or 80 receivers some time this fall and all that has to be done is add more 34 switches to the board there mounted on and 2 more combiners.

Man that was an easy check switch. Plugged all them in hooked one up to a TV and stepped back about 3 ft and hit all 32 at the same time.

 

[JPointerWI]

Then you probably have a connection problem.

As 50' shouldn't be a problem. I did a 32 receiver install in a converted school. The 105 SD was 3 floors up (14' ceilings plus 2' thick floors and 3rd floor ceiling had a 4' air space) and we ran 8 DP34's in series to feed all 32 receivers. They'll be up to 60 or 80 receivers some time this fall and all that has to be done is add more 34 switches to the board there mounted on and 2 more combiners.

Man that was an easy check switch. Plugged all them in hooked one up to a TV and stepped back about 3 ft and hit all 32 at the same time.

I thought 4 switches in series was pushing the limits. Did you split the incoming coax from the LNB or are all 8 chained together ??

 

[inwo]

Why add a switch with only 4 receivers?

 

[TheDishNetworkInstaller]

I asked the same question to the lead tech on that particular job, asking if we were going to run 4 SD's to do it. He said he was told that the 4 34 switch limit was Dish's residential standards. Most of his commercial installs have never needed all 16 ports of all 4 34 switches so he was winging it from what a commercial rep told him. This same Dish rep supposedly told him he activated one commercial account with 60 some receivers before and faxed him a spec sheet for an 80 channel system which is what he based his design off of.

There straight through. No splitters. SD to 34's to receivers to combiners to distribution blocks on each floors 3 utility closets.

The local Nursing home has a similar setup. Only there’s allows the residents to have individual receivers in there rooms so they can have there own programming levels.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

Good question. I wasn't going to remove the switch off the mast and that only has the three incoming coax lines. I hadn't considered the barrell connectors for an exterior connection, which is why I was going to cascade the 2nd switch.

I'll try the barrel connectors and if it works OK [why shouldn't it] I'll have to come up with something to make them weather tight.

Any suggestions? Silicone? I'd rather use something that wasn't quite as permanent.

 

[inwo]

Good question. I wasn't going to remove the switch off the mast and that only has the three incoming coax lines. I hadn't considered the barrell connectors for an exterior connection, which is why I was going to cascade the 2nd switch.

I'll try the barrel connectors and if it works OK [why shouldn't it] I'll have to come up with something to make them weather tight.

Any suggestions? Silicone? I'd rather use something that wasn't quite as permanent.

Use silicon dielectric grease only. No tape or sealer. You can pick up a tiny tube at any auto parts or hrdwr store. Fill connectors before screwing on. I do this on 100% of my outdoor connections = 0 problems.

 

[larrystotler]

Dish's recommendation for total wire length for DP is 200ft MAX. So long as the total length is ok, then the switches can be instaleld anywhere in between. When using a DP+44, since it is powered, you can get away with longer runs because the switch is powered and the distance between the DP+44 and the LNBs can be added to the distance between the receivers and the DP+44(in theory. I doubt that E* would agree with that. It works for powered D* switches.). The real issue is voltage drop on legacy systems because if the LNB see's less than 15.7 Volts, its an odd signal that is sent back, when an Even had been requested.

As for the max number of DP34s, it's supposed to be a total of 3 in series. With a Quad, you can run 6 DP34s(24 ports). You could us splitters to reduce the total distance and do more switches, but you will eventually get the same degradation of signal eventually. The final thing to consider is that since not all of the tuners/receivers are asking for the same sat at the same time, then you can get away with a little more.

 

[AudioInstallers]

the question remains. why are you adding a dp 34 if you only are running 4 receivers? must be a dual in there eh?

 

[TheDishNetworkInstaller]

I belive he answered that question audio.

I think he was worried about moving it to begin with.

Barreling it would be the better option or running a 4th line from the 34 switch.

Second switch in his case with only 4 receivers total is waste of money.

 

[AntAltMike]

I did a 32 receiver install in a converted school. The 105 SD was 3 floors up (14' ceilings plus 2' thick floors and 3rd floor ceiling had a 4' air space) and we ran 8 DP34's in series to feed all 32 receivers. They'll be up to 60 or 80 receivers some time this fall and all that has to be done is add more 34 switches to the board there mounted on and 2 more combiners..

With no inline boosters? Do you know what the insertion loss and tap loss figures are for those switches? I just had to go back to 5 DP34 cascade in a nine story building and insert a 17dB gain amp between the second and third switches on the 61deg line only (approx 180 foot downleads). They were losing transponder 18 on the 61.5 deg bird. There were already identical 17dB amps on the all three inputs.

 

[TheDishNetworkInstaller]

Well 9 stories is a lot more then 3 storys.

I'm sure at some point we'll have to amplify the Sat signal but we've got 8 DP34's running just fine last time I asked him about the project.

The output of the combiners is amped from the sat closet for the 2 longer runs that run to the other side of the school.

When (if) the other 30 some recivers are added we plan to just add 8 more SW34's to the board and if it works great if not we'll amp them to see if that works other wise we'll just throw up another SD and connect the 8 SW34's to it.

The nursing home has in line amps on the longer runs but all the 34 switches are 12' from the Dish and is only a single story building.

 

[SimpleSimon]

The output of the combiners is amped from the sat closet for the 2 longer runs that run to the other side of the school.

You left that VERY important bit of information out before.

And they are NOT NOT NOT SW34s - don't confuse the newbies.

 

[TheDishNetworkInstaller]

Hmm I thought I put that in there. Must have been thinking about it but didn't type it.

By the way I didn't miss use the terms. I just didn't state the setup completely. The only amped part of the schools system is the 2 out of the 5 outputs from the combiners that go clear across the campus to the far wing.

All the equipment is in the same room 3 stories down from the dish. It is setup like a cable head end.