Charlie and Joe Speak on NY Sports

[chuckster_dude]

"We don't do it in New York today, as an example, and we certainly have plenty of customers in New York."

Not as many as he used to. But as long as profits are up, it doesn't matter how many subs you have, or even lose, as long as the bottom line is good and the shareholders are happy.

Personally, I think it stinks that we don't have MSG in Buffalo. He's missing out on alot of subs here that are Sabres fans....and there are alot of them. I like the idea of a NY Sports pack add-on -- YES, SNY and MSG for $5 a month seems fair. I would buy it and I think many in Western New York would too. And it would level the playing field with his competition.

 

[larryf]

If Dish thinks they can survive with out sports, then they should dump them instead of just talking about it.

 

[dwarren2]

Why not cancel Dish and use the money you save to upgrade the cable package? Since you've already got lower tier cable, it sounds like you don't mind doing business with the cable company, and probably wouldn't even have to do anything beyond making a phone call, assuming they don't require a box or you already have one for your super basic package.

I only use cable as a back up for local TV. But the big reason I'll stay with Dish is the wife. She knows how to use the Dish DVR. She never figured out my BUD. Other than MSG, there is nothing on cable that I want that isn't on Dish.

 

[loubon]

The NY Daily News had some interesting numbers this weekend. MSG's viewership was down something like 30% for the Rangers and even more for the Devils (I live in NJ so they didn't mention the Sabres, the NBA is on strke and no cares about the Islanders. ) It was year over year and I'm not sure if the time period overlapped before or after Dish dropped MSG. If if it was after I would think if was relatively close to the initial time and it would have been before people left Dish for elsewhere. Given that the Rangers have played well I would think the loss of Dish has had an impact on these numbers.

My point here is that many blame Dish but it would seem to me MSG needs Dish just as much. But in their typical pigheaded manner (I used to have Cablevision - the worst by far) they won't budge an inch.

 

[Tampa8]

If Dish thinks they can survive with out sports, then they should dump them instead of just talking about it.

I think they are actually saying they can do without expensive sports, not all sports. They have successfully negotiated, and continue to do so, with many RSN's. It would appear in particular the NY market feels it is worth alot more. And apparently Dish feels it isn't.

 

[david_jr]

Great games existed long before salaries (mega stadiums and even TV) existed. See it live or perhaps listen for "free" on the radio was about all there was. Even 30 years ago all the the games were on broadcast TV and salaries were "big" to the average person (but small compared to todays mega million contracts). Broadcast TV paid very little for the games because they had to sell ads at a reasonable rate to pay for them.

It was when players like RSNs and ESPN came out and started to pay mega millions/billions for the broadcast rights because they could turn around and charge everyone that things got out of control. If the business model was forced to change I am confident things could revert back to "reasonably big salaries". Perhaps the stadiums would not be quite as fancy, but you could afford to have season tickets again.

I guess its the supply/demand dynamic that has gotten out of whack. When I lived in Boston in 1981 you could go to Fenway Park and buy a general admission ticket for $2.00 and go sit anywhere there was no butt in a seat. We often sat front row Pesky's pole. The park was never full, a few years later the whole sports dynamic changed and that experience was no longer possible. Sports has a premium product that they sell for a premium price. Every part of it has gone up astronomically from the ticket prices, parking prices, food prices, memorabilia prices and TV prices. Until the demand drops the price will remain high just like any other entertainment comodity. Looks like the demand might be headed down a bit, but not significantly. That may change with the continued bad economy and reports that food and other commodities prices could be headed up. The cost to fill up has come down a few cents but is still staggering if you look at your monthly gas bills. When people have to start deciding between entertainment and living the demand will decrease I think.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

Agree on the desire for a la carte everywhere. But are you serious on this example? Your subsidy of Lifetime is pennies, whereas my subsidy of ESPN is $'s. (That's my wag not knowing actual costs.)

I'm using Lifetime as an example of a channel I never watch and would drop in an ala carte system, but there are a bunch of other channels I don't watch as well and would also drop. FOX News is one I'd drop. I occasionally watch Two and Half Men reruns on FX, but I wouldn't pay for it. I could go on.

I'll grant your point that the channels I don't watch are probably less expensive to Dish than the sports channels, but they do add up to something, I'm sure.

 

[Yespage]

If Dish thinks they can survive with out sports, then they should dump them instead of just talking about it.

I don't know if they'd lose Soccer. That is probably a massive draw for the Hispanic crowd. I've been without ESPN and Versus for a while now and really, it hasn't hurt me too much, and has been worth the $25 drop in programming fees. Take away FSC and then there would be trouble.

I still think the loss of a RSN is larger as that prevents watching local teams.

 

[osu1991]

I've been fortunate the last 4 to 5 years to make a decent living. I can pay my bills and still put some back to hopefully retire one day, but it cost me over a $1000 for 4 tickets and food etc.. to take my 2 nephews to a college football game last year in Stillwater. Which was cheap compared to what our corporate seats had been costing us, although everything except parking and alcohol was included in what we were paying for those. I decided it wasn't worth us keeping them last year. My college buddy still has his seats and it costs him a $10k donation just too park next to the stadium. I remember going to Norman to an OU game with my dad and sister (OU grads-- what can you do) in 1991 and it cost us $60 for tickets. The costs are just getting ridiculous anymore. My stepsisters boss has invited them to his suite for the Cowboys Thanksgiving game, I can only imagine what those cost.

 

[Bobby]

I've been fortunate the last 4 to 5 years to make a decent living. I can pay my bills and still put some back to hopefully retire one day, but it cost me over a $1000 for 4 tickets and food etc.. to take my 2 nephews to a college football game last year in Stillwater. Which was cheap compared to what our corporate seats had been costing us, although everything except parking and alcohol was included in what we were paying for those. I decided it wasn't worth us keeping them last year. My college buddy still has his seats and it costs him a $10k donation just too park next to the stadium. I remember going to Norman to an OU game with my dad and sister (OU grads-- what can you do) in 1991 and it cost us $60 for tickets. The costs are just getting ridiculous anymore. My stepsisters boss has invited them to his suite for the Cowboys Thanksgiving game, I can only imagine what those cost.

Yep, ticket proces are totally out of hand. Here is what it cost me to go to a Pro Bowl Game back in 1971:

 

[Laddyboy]

I've been fortunate the last 4 to 5 years to make a decent living. I can pay my bills and still put some back to hopefully retire one day, but it cost me over a $1000 for 4 tickets and food etc.. to take my 2 nephews to a college football game last year in Stillwater. Which was cheap compared to what our corporate seats had been costing us, although everything except parking and alcohol was included in what we were paying for those. I decided it wasn't worth us keeping them last year. My college buddy still has his seats and it costs him a $10k donation just too park next to the stadium. I remember going to Norman to an OU game with my dad and sister (OU grads-- what can you do) in 1991 and it cost us $60 for tickets. The costs are just getting ridiculous anymore. My stepsisters boss has invited them to his suite for the Cowboys Thanksgiving game, I can only imagine what those cost.

The cost is the major reason I've shed all pro and college sports. I never thought I'd give up my STL Card baseball season tickets, but I did a few years ago when the cost of attending went into the stratosphere. I just don't care about them any longer if all I'm doing is paying to watch a bunch of spoiled millionaires or pay for separate sports stadiums for minor or women's sports when they could all use the same facilities most of the time like they used to do. I still support the local high school kids, but that's it. I think many people have a less favorable view toward sports because of the ridiculous costs.

 

[CK SatGuy]

Yep, ticket proces are totally out of hand. Here is what it cost me to go to a Pro Bowl Game back in 1971:

Yeah ticket prices are now outrageous. For the NFL, I think prices didn't become more outrageous until the mid-90s after Fox bought the rights which made the league a whole lot more popular. I guess to be fair though, $8.00 was worth much more back then compared to today.

 

[nelson61]

The cost is the major reason I've shed all pro and college sports. I never thought I'd give up my STL Card baseball season tickets, but I did a few years ago when the cost of attending went into the stratosphere. I just don't care about them any longer if all I'm doing is paying to watch a bunch of spoiled millionaires or pay for separate sports stadiums for minor or women's sports when they could all use the same facilities most of the time like they used to do. I still support the local high school kids, but that's it. I think many people have a less favorable view toward sports because of the ridiculous costs.

I've taken to going to the local games , city league, high school, whatever. The seats are better, the price is right, and I have more fun.

 

[HanoverPretzel]

The cost is the major reason I've shed all pro and college sports.

I agree that the costs are getting out of hand. I haven't bought tickets to a sporting event in a long time now (I have a relative who has season tickets to the Ravens and brings me along for free sometimes, though.). That to me makes being able to watch the games on television all that much more important, but the cost of television is getting pretty close to being beyond my reach as well. Sports used to be something that would bring people of all economic classes together and that every one could share in. I worry that, like so many things in life, that may not be the case for the much longer, though. Already, it's been reduced to something a lot of people can't afford to see in person, and if television goes next...

My favorite baseball team, the Orioles, announced a new logo and cap for 2011. I don't buy the t-shirts and that kind of stuff anymore, but I thought I might at least buy a cap. I checked the website and they want $35, for a freaking baseball cap. Needless to say, I didn't buy the cap. Wal-Mart sometimes stocks caps at a decent price, but it's hit or miss.

I have a $5 Chinese knockoff of a Ravens cap I got outside the stadium from a street vendor one time (I assume the league doesn't get a cut of that, which is why they are so cheap.). There are blank $3 hats at the Dollar General. So when you see someone selling a baseball cap for $35, $30 of that is probably markup (Maybe $25, assuming the hat is better quality and costs double to make). That's outrageous.

It'd be nice if one of the pro sports challenged the way the market is going and said "We're going to offer cheap tickets prices, telecasts of all of our games available for free or a nominal subscription cost through a cheap television package or the Internet, and $5-$10 ball caps.". Or, if none of the existing pro sports would, it'd be nice if a new league popped up and explicitly marketed things that way, saying "We're the affordable alternative". I wonder why it doesn't happen.

 

[osu1991]

Not going to happen, when a team that is supposedly losing money goes out and gives a guy a $160 million 8 yr contract extension. I quit following baseball a long time ago. The Dodgers are not the team I grew up with anymore. When the players and owners are at odds over how to split $9 Billion dollars (NFL), I start not caring if they come back or not. Which is how I feel about the NBA now.

 

[DodgerKing]

A team that is worth more than any other team, rewarding their own homegrown player, whom should get the MVP, won the GG and SS, and was voted by the players as the Player of they year and best offensive player in baseball this past year, with a long term deal is a good move in my book. They are getting him cheap for a long time. A player with of his caliber should get at least $5 million more per year.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

 

[AntiMoz]

Personally, I think it stinks that we don't have MSG in Buffalo. He's missing out on alot of subs here that are Sabres fans....and there are alot of them. I like the idea of a NY Sports pack add-on -- YES, SNY and MSG for $5 a month seems fair. I would buy it and I think many in Western New York would too. And it would level the playing field with his competition.[/QUOTE]


Amen, brother!

 

[osu1991]

A team that is worth more than any other team, rewarding their own homegrown player, whom should get the MVP, won the GG and SS, and was voted by the players as the Player of they year and best offensive player in baseball this past year, with a long term deal is a good move in my book. They are getting him cheap for a long time. A player with of his caliber should get at least $5 million more per year.

Sent from my iPhone using SatelliteGuys

I agree it was a good move for improving the team, hopefully the Dodgers can climb back to the top, but players salary's are the biggest part of the problem. I don't think any player deserves $20 million a year in any sport.

 

[dishcomm]

Here is the problem with their thinking:

1. What the customer pays for their service is not that much less expensive than what they will pay for service with another provider, and the other providers do have the sports programming. In some cases the other providers are less expensive, depending on a particular setup or bundling deals.
2. One of the main reasons people chose DBS over local cable or broadband is to get packages and channels that are not offered locally, namely sports. This is how DirecTV competes with local services.
3. What does Dish offer that seperates them from the competition? Why would someone in NY pick Dish over local cable or broadband?

When Charlie says Dish has good penetration in the NY market he does not define "good".
Charlie is waging a one man crusade against pay tv sports programming. Here's the rub. The thinking by some is they'd like a sports free tier. I agree. That should be available. However the notion of a sport heavy tier far from being available.
Nor is the whole ball of wax tier either.
The best scenario is for the providers to go to the producers and with a unified front ,tell them the demographics and viewing habits have changed. The old ways of mandatory inclusion no longer are acceptable to the viewers.
So in this instance sports programmers would just have to get used to the idea that customers will buy a sports tier if they wish. Or "Mr. ESPN, I am not not going to be forced to put your channel in a basic tier. You'll just have to live with it"..."Oh, you regional sports guys, same thing. Unless my customer wants your service specifically, you will no longer force me to put your service on a lower tier."....

 

[dishcomm]

I think this will come to a head when ESPN is up for renewal. Disney is going to want a large increase in fees just like Fox has been trying to get with its renewal of the RSN's, FX, and some other channels over the last year with Dish/Directv. Dish may take a stand and say ESPN isn't going in any of the basic packages anymore.

I read about this as well. I am not upgrading to anything that is going to put me into a commitment because if Dish dumps ESPN ,I'm out for sure. And if Dish does dump ESPN, now hear this.....IT IS NOT COMING BACK.