Hello everyone, I just had my Voom installed today. I've given up my Dish HD, but keeping part of it for its PVR capabilities. I love all the additional HD channels. I wish I could get all the OTA channels, but i'm only getting 2 & 31.
Colorado Voomers
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Welcome elite1. Once your program guide loads with the new software, you should get channels 2, 4, (maybe 7), 9, 12, and 31. If you don't--call Voom and get the installer to come back out and re-orient your antenna. The guy who installed mine is a good installer. David Dominguez at (720) 341-4663.
Four days without any activity sent us to page 2!!! How is everybody doing? Any opinions on the recently posted news about having two satellites and going to a much larger dish?
I like the larger dish and plus the fact the new sat is more south helps, heh heh I upgraded to the vava voom package too! btw
and i've been meaning to say this for a while but 9news pq is the best i've seen in HD i think. First day i say it my jaw dropped more so than when i first saw hdtv so um ya
and i've been meaning to say this for a while but 9news pq is the best i've seen in HD i think. First day i say it my jaw dropped more so than when i first saw hdtv so um ya
You know a bigger dish for our area might be good on the rain and snow fade we get.
Channel 9 news is great in HD. They need more HD field cameras out there now. I have yet to catch the HD helicopter shots.
Anyone have problems with channel 2 sound last night? It sounded like echos on my end.
Channel 9 news is great in HD. They need more HD field cameras out there now. I have yet to catch the HD helicopter shots.
Anyone have problems with channel 2 sound last night? It sounded like echos on my end.
Another new Colorado VOOMer
Folks -
I will be joining your ranks shortly. My install is scheduled for 5/27/04.
I've already had my first (pre-install) glitch in that the installers were planning to use a diplexer to couple my off-air and satellite signals, which I had specifically requested not be the case when I ordered service (and it was written into the service order). I think they are working it out.
I am having 4 boxes installed, and currently have Echostar/Dish. I am keeping the existing service until I see how well VOOM works out. I do have high hopes! I will deeply miss the PVR though, and am trying to find a way to fill the gap. Have there been any more updates on when VOOM will interoperate with Tivo, or better yet when their PVR will come out?
I live in the Littleton area (Southwest of Denver) down by C-470 and Kipling. I'm wondering if there are others in the neighnorhood who have some idea of what I can expect with the off-air reception and satellite signal strength.
Pete
Folks -
I will be joining your ranks shortly. My install is scheduled for 5/27/04.
I've already had my first (pre-install) glitch in that the installers were planning to use a diplexer to couple my off-air and satellite signals, which I had specifically requested not be the case when I ordered service (and it was written into the service order). I think they are working it out.
I am having 4 boxes installed, and currently have Echostar/Dish. I am keeping the existing service until I see how well VOOM works out. I do have high hopes! I will deeply miss the PVR though, and am trying to find a way to fill the gap. Have there been any more updates on when VOOM will interoperate with Tivo, or better yet when their PVR will come out?
I live in the Littleton area (Southwest of Denver) down by C-470 and Kipling. I'm wondering if there are others in the neighnorhood who have some idea of what I can expect with the off-air reception and satellite signal strength.
Pete
Hi Pete. I'm at Colorado Blvd and County Line, and I get great OTA reception. Using non-diplexed dedicated feeds from the dish and the OTA antenna. Stand firm on your instruction of not using the diplexer. Signal strength on satellite feed stays at about 95, and is very consistent, except during light rain or light snow, when it can drop as much as 20 points. I've had Voom since the end of December, so we have been through all kinds of weather.
In regards to the PVR, it's supposed to come out in the fall, and that's about as specific as anyone has been. TIVO supposedly now works with Voom. I've never used TIVO, but there is a big thread about how to get it to work with Voom. I'm using a DVD recorder (Pioneer 7000), and that works fine for me.
Channel 9 PQ is excellent, and Kathy Sabine makes watching the news even better!! I hope everything works out on your installation. Mine was done very well, and I've had almost no problems with any equipment. Good thing--since I bought the STB. I still have another month worth of credit from the $300 giveback, so VaVaVoom has been free since the end of December.
In regards to the PVR, it's supposed to come out in the fall, and that's about as specific as anyone has been. TIVO supposedly now works with Voom. I've never used TIVO, but there is a big thread about how to get it to work with Voom. I'm using a DVD recorder (Pioneer 7000), and that works fine for me.
Channel 9 PQ is excellent, and Kathy Sabine makes watching the news even better!! I hope everything works out on your installation. Mine was done very well, and I've had almost no problems with any equipment. Good thing--since I bought the STB. I still have another month worth of credit from the $300 giveback, so VaVaVoom has been free since the end of December.
diplexers?
Why is everyone so against diplexers? All I hear is "stand-firm" don't let those stupid installers use diplexers? I've had my DirecTV system since 1995 and have the same diplexers working with my multiswitch and no loss of picture quality what-so-ever. My VOOM also has the diplexers as well and no difference at all. In fact my HD pictures and signal quality on my OTA are amazing.
In fact, I would rather have less ugly cable on the side of my house, less connectors, less possible problems with some cheap, noise inducing plug-in power supply to power the antenna amplifier board. If you don't let the installer use diplexers then you will deal with more problems then you know.
Has anyone REALLY come out with the precise reason why not to use diplexers? Other than all the chat going on? I haven't read any truly legit, real white-paper proof that diplexers are "bad".
Help me out here, if diplexers are "bad" and someone can prove to me how and why, then I'll eat my words and quickly remove them from both of my systems.
Why is everyone so against diplexers? All I hear is "stand-firm" don't let those stupid installers use diplexers? I've had my DirecTV system since 1995 and have the same diplexers working with my multiswitch and no loss of picture quality what-so-ever. My VOOM also has the diplexers as well and no difference at all. In fact my HD pictures and signal quality on my OTA are amazing.
In fact, I would rather have less ugly cable on the side of my house, less connectors, less possible problems with some cheap, noise inducing plug-in power supply to power the antenna amplifier board. If you don't let the installer use diplexers then you will deal with more problems then you know.
Has anyone REALLY come out with the precise reason why not to use diplexers? Other than all the chat going on? I haven't read any truly legit, real white-paper proof that diplexers are "bad".
Help me out here, if diplexers are "bad" and someone can prove to me how and why, then I'll eat my words and quickly remove them from both of my systems.
Good points. If they work, then no reason to change anything. Diplexers are just one more thing that can go wrong or be incompatible. There's been a lot of talk about how diplexers can degrade the signal, etc--but not much proof. I just figure if a customer does not want diplexers (for whatever reason) they are entitled to an installation that does not use them. But for many people, diplexers are installed and working just fine. In fact, I'm using the Channel Master 4032 that came with Voom to split my signal out of the STB so I can feed 3 other TV's, and it works well.
The Stone Man said:
This might be answered later in the thread but I wanted to let you (and everyone) know that 1000 Watts is the FCC mandated power rating for DTV. I spoke with a 9 News engineer extensively on this topic.
I live in Loveland 46.5m from Lookout Mountain, I get 2-1 and 31-1 great but no 4,7 or 9 yet. I have a Terk TV55 antenna. Oddly enough I am NOT able to get 22-1, the Fox translator in Ft Collins ... weird.
Oh, I am am Direc right now but that all changes Wednesday...Woo Hoo!
sat4me said:
It really depends on where you live. In Loveland (where I am) If I were to use a diplexer it would kill my OTA channels ... as in I'd receive none! Anytime you couple, diplex or split a signal you have a minimum 3.5dB "insertion" loss. If you multiply by 3 (Antenna, diplexer, receiver) you have 10.5dB loss on your signal
and that stinks.
The Stone Man said:
Point blank, cable and digital cable are terrible, unless it is HD. With Basic (yuk) cable your get 255 lines horizontal resolution, same with "digital" cable. With PPV and premiums on digital cable you get 400 lines ... which is the same as all satellite channels. that is why satellite has always been superior to cable.
FYI I used the "$400 for your dish" offer to leverage 6 months or free SHO and HBO from Direc ... that is about all the offer is good for.
slacker9876 said:It really depends on where you live. In Loveland (where I am) If I were to use a diplexer it would kill my OTA channels ... as in I'd receive none! Anytime you couple, diplex or split a signal you have a minimum 3.5dB "insertion" loss. If you multiply by 3 (Antenna, diplexer, receiver) you have 10.5dB loss on your signal
No, using diplexers have nothing to do with where you live. That so far is the poorest excuse as to why not to use diplexers. If you are that low on db to start with then use a amplifier to increase the starting signal db. The VOOM OTA is amplified, so perhaps in your case this will be a plus and if the diplexer works then don't get all huffed out with the installer over it.
The only correct issue you have is if the antenna has a low signal db to start with then any and all connections will pull it down.
So, lets first start with what a "good" antenna signal should begin with. Minimum db at the antenna should be around 5-7 or greater.
EXAMPLE: Let's start with a db at the antenna of 7 >> Fittings (each = .5db loss x 4 minumim = 2db) Ground block (-3.5db) 100 ft RG-6 coaxial (-6.5db) Total db loss = 12db >>>WOW, NO WAY THAT MAKES IT A NEGATIVE DB!
It's OK though, your TV tuner is designed to produce a picture to a negative 15db. So, with the above example, the net db is -5, at the tuner, well in the tuners acceptable range.
Do the same for adding a diplexer and you will lose an additional 3db.
Not done yet, Lets say you have more than one TV to connect to the OTA: Now you need a splitter. Minimum loss through a splitter is 3.5 to 4.5 db depending on if you use a 2-way or 3/4 way splitter.
VOOM uses a dual output diplexer for 2 receivers to get the OTA and SAT signal combined. With that the insert loss is 3db. Use a 2 way splitter instead on the OTA with separate lines and you now add another 3.5+ loss using a splitter and separate line.
We're talking about a insert loss that will be there no matter what. In fact if you have 3 or 4 VOOM receivers being installed, the multiswitch will only insert the 3db loss and then the installer won't need to use a 4 way splitter with 4.5 db loss for each TV!
So now let's look at why VOOM uses a diplexer:
The Stealth antenna is amplified and the best, method to amp the antenna is from the STB. Well the only way to do that is with a dual port power passive diplexer. This allows voltage from the receiver to "split" to both the LNB and the amp for the OTA. Since the antenna is being amped, expect that to add as much as 10+db additional signal gain at the antenna.
So, with VOOM using an amplified antenna to increase the gain, the diplexer and all the other items that reduce the signal db are not going to display on your picture or affect the overall performance of your system.
I'm still needing someone to come up with a REAL reason why diplexers should not be used other than, "so-and-so on this chat site said so, because they had a bad diplexer".
Let the VOOM installers do their jobs the way it has worked well for many years.
sat4me said:
Poor or not it is the truth, 3.5dB minimum insertion loss per connection ... the highest gain amp you can buy is 10dB .... so it makes all the difference in the world.
Ask an expert if you like ... oops I am one
, Trained by Dish right here in Colorado.I also meant to add that your distance from the source is WHY it matters where you live when you are talking about OTA antennas ... you can only have so much gain/loss before the signal is worthless.
To the EXPERT
I appreciate you being Dish trained. Good to have another "expert" posting here.
I hold a level 3 NSTP certificate, recertified in the past 90 days for the 2nd time in four years; I do know what I'm talking about (oops, I'm an expert too) it absolutely infuriates me when I read some of the total inaccurate information being passed on to those who have no idea or assume what someone had a bad experience with some bad item or installer that wasn't certified or knew what he was doing. I know for a fact that most of the problems out there are caused by installers that don't know better. The wrong diplexer can be used in some applications and unless you know what you're doing, it won't work.
I don't care how you cut it, diplexers are used throughout the industry successfully in all types of commercial and residential applications. Yes, everytime the cable is cut and connected to some devise there is insertion loss.
Any good tech knows, you have to have good signal in to get good signal out. So, my point to you slacker9876, was it makes no difference "where you live" as to using a diplexer and that itself in that comment made no sense. The issue is if you don't have good signal db to start with, then no matter what, or where you live, you will have poor quality results.
As far as only being able to purchase a maximum 10db amp, that is incorrect. Channel Master has a 25db push-amp available and has for at least 10 years.
Remember, you can over-amp too, so it's a real skill to know how to amp-up a signal properly and calculate line loss to the end user devise.
slacker9876 said:Poor or not it is the truth, 3.5dB minimum insertion loss per connection ... the highest gain amp you can buy is 10dB .... so it makes all the difference in the world.
Ask an expert if you like ... oops I am one
I appreciate you being Dish trained. Good to have another "expert" posting here.
I hold a level 3 NSTP certificate, recertified in the past 90 days for the 2nd time in four years; I do know what I'm talking about (oops, I'm an expert too) it absolutely infuriates me when I read some of the total inaccurate information being passed on to those who have no idea or assume what someone had a bad experience with some bad item or installer that wasn't certified or knew what he was doing. I know for a fact that most of the problems out there are caused by installers that don't know better. The wrong diplexer can be used in some applications and unless you know what you're doing, it won't work.
I don't care how you cut it, diplexers are used throughout the industry successfully in all types of commercial and residential applications. Yes, everytime the cable is cut and connected to some devise there is insertion loss.
Any good tech knows, you have to have good signal in to get good signal out. So, my point to you slacker9876, was it makes no difference "where you live" as to using a diplexer and that itself in that comment made no sense. The issue is if you don't have good signal db to start with, then no matter what, or where you live, you will have poor quality results.
As far as only being able to purchase a maximum 10db amp, that is incorrect. Channel Master has a 25db push-amp available and has for at least 10 years.
Remember, you can over-amp too, so it's a real skill to know how to amp-up a signal properly and calculate line loss to the end user devise.
Question for the experts.
Is there anything that might work in the metro area to get consistent reception on channel 7 (ABC)? I have the amplified StealthTenna that comes with Voom, and I get 2,4,9 and 31 very well, but 7 is a problem. Many people have posted about the Square Shooter as a possible solution. Do we actually know when this tower on Lookout Mountain is going to be a reality for all locals?
Is there anything that might work in the metro area to get consistent reception on channel 7 (ABC)? I have the amplified StealthTenna that comes with Voom, and I get 2,4,9 and 31 very well, but 7 is a problem. Many people have posted about the Square Shooter as a possible solution. Do we actually know when this tower on Lookout Mountain is going to be a reality for all locals?
StoneMan, the best info you can get is here http://www.lakecedarproject.com/ aside from searching documents at the Jeffco couthouse. They are vague too, however, this is the group responsible for construction of the facility. Too bad the Jeffco judge feels she is. The opponents to this project are among the least educated RF folks in the nation, far as I can tell except for maybe my 8 year old, but he is learning.
On your channel 7 issues, I would have to say the signal is obstruction or interference. 7 & 9 are with like 2 miles of each other ... honestly there is much on there worth watching (to me) so I have never tried to fine tune my config. Like I have said in earlier post 1000W is the power output for all DTV ... this will be higher on lookout mtn.
On your channel 7 issues, I would have to say the signal is obstruction or interference. 7 & 9 are with like 2 miles of each other ... honestly there is much on there worth watching (to me) so I have never tried to fine tune my config. Like I have said in earlier post 1000W is the power output for all DTV ... this will be higher on lookout mtn.
sat4me said:
You're right & You're right ... my post was too vague I have corrected it, also you are an expert
Technically I am not as I have no current certs, just lots of experience. Now to clarify ... if your signal is a turd to begin with, don't try to polish it. If you have strong signals to begin with, the diplexers will not affect your configuration. However, if you live in the sticks (like me) they can kill it if you don' use caution.
As Sat4Me can vouch for 45 miles is "out of range" for a DTV signal for my TV-55 antenna ... but I get it.
