Confused about upgrading equipment at a home with only one coax cable available

[BrettStah]

I am going through various threads, and I am not quite sure I understand exactly what I need. Please advise!

Current setup (at a friend's house, not mine, so I'm not intimately familiar with the exact layout):

One HR20-100, currently working fine with only one tuner hooked up. There's a 5 LNB dish outside on a pole, and it's been there for at least 4 years, so I'm pretty sure there's no SWM stuff going on.

The coax cable is run down an interior wall, and my friend isn't sure how easy it'll be to run another one. I know that the SWM technology allows you to connect two tuners by using a splitter right at the point where the DVR is, and want to know what he needs to purchase to enable it.

Basically, do I just need to advise him to replace the multiswitch, or does he also need to replace part of the dish as well?

 

[BobStokesbary]

I'm not sure what your objective is on this. But, if you want to change over to SWM technology you can do it in one of two ways: replace the multiswitch (as you mentioned) or replace the LNB with a SWM unit. Ironically, the new LNB with power inserter is less than the multiswitch with power inserter.

I think pictures are more instructive than words.

You can see an example of the multiswitch here.
And the new LNB here. (Note - if you only have one receiver you don't need to use the splitter.)

 

[dishrich]

I know that the SWM technology allows you to connect two tuners by using a splitter right at the point where the DVR is

You're confused with DISH's technology - on DirecTV SWM, the single coax simply connects to the LNB1 input on the DVR - nothing else is required on the back of the receiver itself. If you have more than 1 receiver, THEN a splitter is used, but at the point where the single coax from the dish connects to the individual room coax cables.

Basically, do I just need to advise him to replace the multiswitch, or does he also need to replace part of the dish as well?

I would suggest you have him call D* & explain the situation with them. Normally on the legacy dishes, D* normally requires their techs to run all the required coax to make BOTH tuners function properly. However, if you friend did NOT want to pay extra for "custom work" such as a wall fish, or it was just not feasible, then they will just do the one tuner - which maybe sounds like what happened originally. BUT now that SWM is available, D* might be willing to come out & upgrade the LNB to SWM at NO charge, so your friend would not be out of pocket, nor have to do the work.

 

[kjlued]

You're confused with DISH's technology - on DirecTV SWM, the single coax simply connects to the LNB1 input on the DVR - nothing else is required on the back of the receiver itself. If you have more than 1 receiver, THEN a splitter is used, but at the point where the single coax from the dish connects to the individual room coax cables.

Unless you are doing MRV on the HR20.
Then you will need a power passing splitter to power the DECA.

I would suggest you have him call D* & explain the situation with them. Normally on the legacy dishes, D* normally requires their techs to run all the required coax to make BOTH tuners function properly. However, if you friend did NOT want to pay extra for "custom work" such as a wall fish, or it was just not feasible, then they will just do the one tuner - which maybe sounds like what happened originally. BUT now that SWM is available, D* might be willing to come out & upgrade the LNB to SWM at NO charge, so your friend would not be out of pocket, nor have to do the work.

I would not count on it being no charge.
I have tried getting then to this stuff many times for customers doing upgrades or even for movers and they will not do it.

I would say the cheapest way would be to go ob ebay and buy the conversion kit and just do it yourself.

Or you could set up a service call and try bribing the tech when he gets there.
Sounds shady, but most techs have extra stuff they pull off houses and we don't have to turn it in (if we did, it would end up in the dumpster).

 

[BrettStah]

I'm not sure what your objective is on this. But, if you want to change over to SWM technology you can do it in one of two ways: replace the multiswitch (as you mentioned) or replace the LNB with a SWM unit. Ironically, the new LNB with power inserter is less than the multiswitch with power inserter.

I think pictures are more instructive than words.

You can see an example of the multiswitch here.
And the new LNB here. (Note - if you only have one receiver you don't need to use the splitter.)

The objective is to be able to use the HR20 with dual tuner capabilities, rather than as it's being used now (single tuner).

Thanks for the links!

So to clarify - he would need to get a new multiswitch OR the new LNB, and he doesn't need a splitter, right? I believe his multiswitch is in his attic, readily available to him to replace, so maybe that is the simplest way for him to go - swap out the multiswitch and he should be good to go, if I understand it correctly.

 

[dishrich]

Yes, but why do you believe he DOES have a MS in the attic??? Again, if he ONLY has 1 receiver & he has a non-SWM slimline, WHY would have a MS in the first place?
And, in order for that MS to even work, he would have to have FOUR coaxs from the dish TO the MS itself. (it will NOT work properly with only 1) Since all slimline non-SWM dishes support 4 tuners all by themselves, unless he also has a 2nd dish (for international prog) there would have been NO need for it in the first place. Have you even looked to see how many cables are now coming out of his dish to the attic??? Either way, you guys REALLY need to double-check for a MS before you start buying things.

So you really should know FOR SURE if he is actually using a MS now, BEFORE we can tell you the route to go.
If I was a betting man & he, in fact, does NOT have a MS, then I would go the route of changing the LNB to an SWiM LNB w/power supply. The PS can be located right at the receiver, so it's a piece of cake to install, as is the LNB.

 

[BrettStah]

I believe that because I was under the (apparently mistaken) impression that a multiswitch was standard equipment used for the 5 LNB dishes. Obviously I need to stop assuming things.

Your advice is good... I need to verify what is actually there, instead of assuming/guessing...

 

[kjlued]

The easiest and cheapest way to get what you want done is probably to run another line.
There is almost always a way to get a line to the receiver unless it is in the center of the house on a slab with a floor above it and tile, concrete or wood floors.

If there is a crawl space or unfinished basement then bringing it through the floor and be done.
If there isn't but there is attic above, then wall fish it.
If there is an outside wall then bring it in through there.
If you need to hide it then, you can always carpet fish it, or hide it behind a base board or quarter round.

I have yet to find a place I can not get a cable, I have only found places that I won't put a cable without charging the customer more then what we can charge for custom labor or places where they will not allow me to run new cables (apartments, etc)
Maybe if you take pictures of the room, and describe what is above it and below it, we can tell you how to a cable there.

 

[BrettStah]

Ok, looks like no multiswitch.

Here is a picture:

The white cables were run when the house was first wired for cable, and apparently the DirecTV installer installed the black cables in the picture (the other ends of those black cables go to the 5 LNB dish), and as you can see, he connected one of those white cables to one of the satellite cables.

So... If he puts a new SWM LNB onto the dish, could he then connect it to that same white cable that is currently active?

There is no basement, and it would not be easy to run a second cable to the TV. He'd rather a SWM based solution if ita as simple as I describes above.

 

[dishrich]

So... If he puts a new SWM LNB onto the dish, could he then connect it to that same white cable that is currently active?

Yep, simple as that - obviously since he will still only be using 1 of those black coax's from the dish, he'll have to make sure he gets it correct on both ends. He should NOT have to alter anything on the side of the house now.

Also an FYI - if he WOULD ever want D* in another room(s) & it's already wired with one of those other white coax's I see there, all that would have to be done is to add an SWM splitter (NOT an MS) right there at the cable box on the house side & he's ready to add more receivers very simply. Also by having SWM, he could easily add MRV & watch the same DVR in other rooms as well!

 

[BrettStah]

Ok, so he could by this from eBay an he will have everything he needs to get dual tuners working with his HR20, correct?

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/view...244&index=1&nav=SEARCH&nid=12908647372&back=1

 

[kjlued]

There is no basement, and it would not be easy to run a second cable to the TV. He'd rather a SWM based solution if ita as simple as I describes above.

Again, it could be a lot cheaper and easier to run another cable.
Definitely a lot cheaper.

Is the house on a slab or is there a crawl space?
1 story or 2 story?
Is the TV next to an exterior wall?
If the TV is on an interior wall, is there another outlet on the other side of the wall?

 

[BrettStah]

Again, it could be a lot cheaper and easier to run another cable.
Definitely a lot cheaper.

Is the house on a slab or is there a crawl space?
1 story or 2 story?
Is the TV next to an exterior wall?
If the TV is on an interior wall, is there another outlet on the other side of the wall?

I will ask my friend those questions. I do know that it's on a slab, 2 story house with the TV on the first floor, and my friend was thinking that running an additional cable would be very difficult.

 

[kjlued]

Ok, so he could by this from eBay an he will have everything he needs to get dual tuners working with his HR20, correct?

DIRECTV SWM 5 LNB WITH ...

Yes if he wants to pay $72 shipped.
Or he could possibly do it for $0 to $20 if you answer all the questions above.

 

[kjlued]

I will ask my friend those questions. I do know that it's on a slab, 2 story house with the TV on the first floor, and my friend was thinking that running an additional cable would be very difficult.

Find out that if on the adjacent wall if there is another cable outlet.
If there is, he can run trough the back side of the box in to the other wall.
If he wants to get really trick, often the boxes are side by side and he can cross drill it in the same box in the other room.
Just have to be careful not to kit the other cable.

 

[raoul5788]

Find out that if on the adjacent wall if there is another cable outlet.
If there is, he can run trough the back side of the box in to the other wall.
If he wants to get really trick, often the boxes are side by side and he can cross drill it in the same box in the other room.
Just have to be careful not to kit the other cable.

After reading this post, I would NEVER let you work in my house. NEVER!

 

[dishrich]

Or he could possibly do it for $0 to $20 if you answer all the questions above.

Well did you ever stop to think about these points before giving this (bad) advice???

- he STILL has to buy coax & fittings FOR that 2nd run?
- does he have the proper tools on-hand to properly terminate that new coax run - or do you suggest he just use a pocket knife & pliers?
- does he have ANY knowledge of how to even do all this?
- what if he starts doing all this drilling & drills into something - like a water pipe or electrical wiring, & then has to pay somebody $$$ to fix all those screw-ups; I would imagine it would cost WAY more than the KISS SWM upgrade that's been suggested.

At least going with the SWM swap, it's a VERY simple LNB swap & connecting a PS that will take probably take WAY less time than all the other hassle you are suggesting he go thru.

After reading this post, I would NEVER let you work in my house. NEVER!

Dang, I thought I was the only one that thought this - ESPECIALLY after reading his post on prog remotes:

I have been in some houses where the receivers were close enough that an RF remote from one room would effect on in another.

Pretty scary when you ARE messing w/RF remotes & DON'T understand something as basic as changing addresses...

 

[BrettStah]

Thanks for the replies! I don't think the cost of the SWM LNB is prohibitive for my friend - compared to the time and hassle of running a new line, it's probably a bargain.

Last question (hopefully! )... Is it pretty straightforward to replace the LNB without screwing up the alignment of the dish?

 

[kjlued]

After reading this post, I would NEVER let you work in my house. NEVER!

What?
He has 1 TV and if he has an unused outlet on the other side of the wall, it can very easily be flipped to the otherside.
Nothing wrong with this at all.
In many cases it can be done where it looks like it was prewired and may very well be preferred then wrapping a house or other means necessary to get a cable where it is needed.

Obviously you have never been a tech trying to get a DVR to work properly and give full functions to a customer where there is no way to get another cable run in to room (at least neatly).
It is the customers own house, let him make the decision on this matter.

As far as NEVER letting me be a tech in your house, I suppose I will cry later.
However, I never do anything without customers approval and flipping an outlet is always a last resort for me.
But if me giving options to make things work properly makes me a bad tech in your opinion then honestly, in my opinion you are a moron and I could care less what you think.

Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[kjlued]

Last question (hopefully! )... Is it pretty straightforward to replace the LNB without screwing up the alignment of the dish?

Yes