Disappearing Closed Caption on 811 (1 Viewer)

pxxv23a

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Feb 26, 2004
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The closed caption thru component output works initially on my 811 on HD/SD/OTA whenever it is availabe, but it will disappear within one to two days. It wil work again only when I replug the 811. Re-setting CC flag thru setup menu (6-9-1) won't do any good. I have 811 for over a month now, I called Dish Tech two weeks ago, no answer so far. Any body woud verify this for me, or am I the only one has this problem ? Anything I can do to avoid this probem ?
 

GaryPen

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pxxv23a said:
The closed caption thru component output works initially on my 811 on HD/SD/OTA whenever it is availabe, but it will disappear within one to two days. It wil work again only when I replug the 811. Re-setting CC flag thru setup menu (6-9-1) won't do any good. I have 811 for over a month now, I called Dish Tech two weeks ago, no answer so far. Any body woud verify this for me, or am I the only one has this problem ? Anything I can do to avoid this probem ?

You're not alone. It happens to me too. And, people that don't turn captioning on get it anyway.

Welcome to the wonderful world of the 811.
 

pxxv23a

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Feb 26, 2004
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[QUOTE=GaryPen]You're not alone. It happens to me too. And, people that don't turn captioning on get it anyway.

On 'closed captions settings' setup page (6-9) , if it shows '1 Turn captions off' , it means CC is on, while '1 Turn captions on' means it is off, a very wierd wording. I have no troule turn CC off, just can't make it stays on for more than two or three days.
I am kind glade that I am not alone having this problem, hopefully Dish will fix it some day.
 

PStecker

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May 28, 2004
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No Closed Captions Either

Hey,

I just got my 811 too and I have issues with the captioning. Apparently when I have component input connected, it turns off my TV's closed captioning (forcing me to use the 811's Captioning). The 811 Captioning is very shoddy and not very reliable. It ranges from disappearing captions(which makes me have to reboot it -- hold the power button for about 3 seconds until the picture freezes, then let go of the button -- this will reboot the 811 and the Caption comes back), half english/half spanish captions, etc.

None of the HD channels will show captioning. I just recently watched the laker game in HD and could not get any captioning, if I switch to the svideo device, then the TV will have CC turned on. It's very strange that the 811 would turn off my TV's caption if it is plugged into the component. Anyone else have this problem?

Cheers,

Patrick
 

GaryPen

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It's not that the 811 turns the caption of on your TV. It's that it does the captioning internally, and shows it on your screen, when you are using one of the HD outputs. I'm not sure about the SD outputs.
But, you are correct in regard to the fact that the 811's CC is intermittent and sporadic. Usually, a reboot will correct it temporarily, as it does with many of the 811's other bugs.
However, it would be nice if it just worked, wouldn't it? People like us are just too demanding and picky, expecting stuff to work. We'll never be happy. :rolleyes:
 

PStecker

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May 28, 2004
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Actually, it does turn it off. When I look at the TV menu under "captioning" it is greyed out. If I switch it to S-Video, or Composite (not component), it turns on to where I can turn it on/off. I have a DVD Player that is hooked up to the component input and it works just fine. I have always relied on the TV for captioning since I am used to the font (and I like it). It is proportional (unlike that the 811 uses).

I just find it ironic that if I turn off Captions in the 811, my tv still won't be able to caption. It would make sense if I turned off the captions in my 811 that the caption signals would still make it through to the tv?

I did speak to the Dish Tech Support and they are sending me another 811 since I have a non-related problem with Dolby Digital not coming in at all (if I choose "Dolby Digital" or "Dolby Digital/PCM" and choose a HD channel, I get no sound -- they said it may be a hardware issue -- but that's another issue). Hopefully this will fix the problem I'm having because it seems other people are able to get Captioning on their 811 through HD and OTA HD. I can always wish/hope :).
 

GaryPen

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Actually, what may be happening is that some, perhaps all, HDTV's do not have internal captioning when using an HD input. That is probably why it's necessary for the 811 to perform the CC. Seems logical.
Unfortunately, the 811's internal CC is buggy. You'll probably find that the new 811 does the same thing, unless it's a HW problem and the new ones have an updated chip.
 

snathanb

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Feb 26, 2004
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PStecker said:
Actually, it does turn it off. When I look at the TV menu under "captioning" it is greyed out. If I switch it to S-Video, or Composite (not component), it turns on to where I can turn it on/off. I have a DVD Player that is hooked up to the component input and it works just fine. I have always relied on the TV for captioning since I am used to the font (and I like it). It is proportional (unlike that the 811 uses).

I believe what you are looking at with DVD is not captions, it is subtitles. That's a different beast, as far as I know.

For the most part, captions are a data stream embedded in the tv signal (during the vertical blanking interval) that is decoded by the TV, which then generates the text to display.

Subtitles are embedded in the data on a DVD, but the DVD player sends them to the TV as part of the actual image itself, and not as data to be decoded.
That's why they work over a component input. I believe that the 811 works in a similar fashion, it reads the CC data from the data stream, then generates the CC text are part of the actual image that it sends to the TV.

Again, that's just my understanding of how things work. This being the internet, if I'm wrong, there will be plenty of people to correct it :rolleyes:
 

pxxv23a

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Feb 26, 2004
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I think I found a work-around to keep component o/p CC from disappearing. Never leave CC option on when you surf channels; some how CC will disappear when you hit a channel where CC is not available and you watch that program a while, or when program guide is being re-loaded (just guessing on this one, because CC never stay on for more than two days). Turn CC back on (menu 6-9-1) only when you need it (and it is available), turn it off when the program is over. It's been a week I have not lost CC this way.
Talk about different hardware, I can never reboot my 811 by holding down power button (not matter how long), I must unplug it to reboot.
 

GaryPen

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snathanb said:
I believe what you are looking at with DVD is not captions, it is subtitles. That's a different beast, as far as I know.

You are mostly correct. CC and subtitles are two different things, working pretty much as you say. But, DVD's usually contain BOTH.

If you were to take a CC-encoded DVD, and choose to display subtitles from the DVD menu while also enabling CC on yout TV, you would see TWO sets of written dialog on the screen.

As such, the original poster probably was seeing DVD captions on his TV, if CC was enabled.

BTW, I know the CC problem isn't high on the list of 811 bugs. But, I do wish they'd fix it.
 

snathanb

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Feb 26, 2004
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GaryPen said:
You are mostly correct. CC and subtitles are two different things, working pretty much as you say. But, DVD's usually contain BOTH.

If you were to take a CC-encoded DVD, and choose to display subtitles from the DVD menu while also enabling CC on yout TV, you would see TWO sets of written dialog on the screen.

As such, the original poster probably was seeing DVD captions on his TV, if CC was enabled.

BTW, I know the CC problem isn't high on the list of 811 bugs. But, I do wish they'd fix it.

Interesting... I didn't know DVDs contained both. Thanks for the info.
 

sprinklerguy

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Dec 16, 2003
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I'll trade you problems if you like....

When I watch SD...which unfortunately is a lot of the time.....the 508 is always recording something while we watch something else :)

Anyway....when I watch SD...I can't get the CC to turn off....very annoying as I find myself reading what Raymond and Frank and Marie are saying instead of actually listening to the punch lines....I can read them before they deliver them...very aggravating!

It doesn't do it at all while watching HD...only while watching SD channels....
 

PStecker

Member
May 28, 2004
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Closed Captions

After researching this "problem" again regarding CCs. Is it true that HD Broadcast does NOT support CC? I found this very surprising. I was at Best Buy looking at another TV since I realized that my TV turns *OFF* Captions (and grays out the option so I can't change it) when connected to a component device. I noticed my DVD player did that too.

At Best Buy, the sales guy there said "Oh, HD does not support CC" which surprised me since it made no sense. I tried to explain that it did, but he kept talking to me like I was completely clueless. I wanted a confirmation (or otherwise) that CC works with HD. I noticed my 811 will caption most channels, but will NEVER caption the HD channels (except for ESPNHD).

OTA HD channels are not CC'd either.
 

GaryPen

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HD broadcasts support CC. HDTV's, OTOH, usually do not when using DVI or Component inputs. In that case, the CC is done in the receiver. I use CC quite often on both OTA and Sat HD broadcasts.

To turn CC on in the 811, go to menu-6-9-closed caption-turn on.

Unfortunately, the 811's CC is buggy and intermittent, and sometimes requires a reboot to get it to work correctly. Some people even report not being able to turn it off!!!
 

PStecker

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May 28, 2004
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GaryPen,

Are there any HDTVs that do support CC via DVI/Component input?

Yes I know about 811's ability to display CC, but it doesn't caption *ANY* of the HD channels I have (CBSHD, TNTHD, DISCHD, etc) except for ESPNHD, but that is random at best. I've had my receiver replaced and it STILL doesn't work. Not to mention it doesn't like to use the Dolby Digital Sound, but that's the least of my worries right now.
 

Grandude

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Dec 13, 2003
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GaryPen said:
Actually, what may be happening is that some, perhaps all, HDTV's do not have internal captioning when using an HD input. That is probably why it's necessary for the 811 to perform the CC. Seems logical.
Unfortunately, the 811's internal CC is buggy. You'll probably find that the new 811 does the same thing, unless it's a HW problem and the new ones have an updated chip.
Gary,
I think you are correct. My Samsung 46in DLP grays out the CC option when viewing HD from my 811. I can get CC then from my 811 but I haven't liked the way it works as compared to CC when watching SD and being done by my TV.
I suspect that most, maybe all HD TVs work this way for some reason.
 

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