And of all of them, only Cincinnati Bell remains, correct?
Dish Bankruptcy - Business as Usual
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And of all of them, only Cincinnati Bell remains, correct?
I believe that is correct.
We're in NY and we can now. We're an AT&T retailer and have been selling AT&T Internet Air for a few months. It's $35 a month if you're an AT&T post paid subscriber, $55 a month if you're not a subscriber.
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The AT&T Internet that everyone has access to is AT&T WorldNet aka att.com which is the same backbone created in 1994 that is a joke. AT&T has 3 Internet tier 1 backbones. AT&T Global Network Services formerly IBM Global Network Services (prserv.net) and AT&T Emerging Network Services, formerly (CERFNet (California Educational and Research Foundation Network) that was part of NSFNet (National Science Foundation Network). AT&T WorldNet has always been a inferior and not the same quality as the other two which are highly respected.
I know, that still will use AT&T's 1996 created backbone better known as AS 7018 which is the lower end. The other two are higher end under AS2685 & AS2686 & AS1740 & AS1838.
Fun fact.. the backhaul to the tower in Drexel, MO for both VZW and ATT is provided by CenturyLink
Backhaul only connects to the backbone...any cell phone tower in the verizon region ( core)..has to connect to the verizon backbone in some fashion..same with att..no matter what provider you use...the actual network ( routers and such) are owned by the cell phone company determine the speed of your cell phone connection
And yet the fiber to that tower is still provided by CenturyLink... so my point still stands, no?
Wow when did that happen? I'm guessing AT&T caved and started offering a $15/month low income tier for those who qualify.
Hopefully this causes AT&T to blanket the state with DoD and cband. They are by far the slowest and have the highest latency generally speaking in Western NY.
No, Fiber to the towers is not CenturyLink for Drexel, MO because it can be either ILEC (Incumbent Local Exchange Carrier) or it can be CLEC (Competitive Local Exchange Carrier).
CenturyLink which has been known as Lumen Technologies is not the incumbent carrier in Drexel. In the Drexel, Missouri wire center and surrounding Cass/Bates county lines, alternative fiber and Competitive Local Exchange Carriers (CLECs) with active transport infrastructure include:
- Peoples Telecommunications (Peoples Services): Operates extensive localized fiber facilities directly in the Drexel and Louisburg area, functioning as the primary regional CLEC/independent carrier on the ground.
- MoKan Communications (MoKan Dial): Maintains contiguous fiber routes right along the Missouri–Kansas border surrounding Drexel, often interconnecting or leasing dark fiber to neighboring towers.
- Conexon Connect: Builds and operates middle-mile and last-mile fiber networks across Cass County in partnership with local electric cooperatives, providing modern fiber transport paths through rural pockets around Drexel.
- Craw-Kan Telephone Cooperative: Holds an adjacent fiber footprint on the southern/Kansas edge of the Drexel exchange area that supports regional carrier transport.
So when it comes to connecting to the internet, you are really dealing with up to 3 companies whether it's AT&T or Verizon.
With AT&T, it can be up to 3 companies.
The first company is AT&T Wireless or AT&T California (ILEC) which provides the wireless connection or wired circuit to you.
The second company which applies only to physical circuits and not wireless service is AT&T Advanced Solutions Inc better known as ASI as a CLEC who provides the data transport between you and the ISP. If this was wireless, then it would be second company being the ISP. AT&T WorldNet being the ISP.
The third company would be the ISP itself which would be AT&T WorldNet if this was a wired connection.
As far as the Verizon backbone is concerned which is what was known as UUNet aka AlterNet (AS 701) as BBNPlanet (AS 1) later known as GTE Internetworking/Genuity has been sold to Level 3 and then CenturyLink which rebranded to Lumen Technologies.
While it will connect to Verizon's backbone which highly depends on the Access Point Name (APN) as using San Francisco where I am located for example,
a direct Verizon mobile customer will connect to Verizon's backbone in San Francisco. A Comcast/XfinityMobile customer which uses Verizon's towers will not as the first hop as seen in traceroutes can be in Houston, Chicago or Atlanta so to reach someone who uses Verizon across the street, the data packet will travel to one of those first and then travel back to San Francisco using Verizon. In both cases, you will always see Verizon Wireless as the first few hops before it will reach Verizon's Internet Backbone. MVNOs do not use the default APN and usually has their own gateways which in the case for Xfinity Mobile is COMCAST.RSLR.VZWENTP which is read just like internet domain names, in reverse order, Verizon Enterprise-Reseller-Comcast. XfinityMobile originally had high latency because of this reason which I and many others complained about but XfinityMobile ignored the issue until I filed a complaint with the FCC that finally pushed it to Xfinity Mobile's Engineering department which finally made it connect to Verizon Wireless's IP network in San Francisco and connected to Verizon's backbone locally.
So basically the APN is the invisible network you will not see in the traceroutes due to:
Mobile Access Point Names (APNs) – Cellular Networks
A cellular APN (the gateway connecting a mobile device to the carrier's packet data network):
• Carrier-Grade NAT (CGNAT) and Tunneling: Cellular data traffic is typically encapsulated inside tunnels (such as GTP - GPRS Tunneling Protocol) and routed through massive carrier gateways.
• ICMP Filtering and Rate Limiting: Mobile carriers and core network routers frequently block, drop, or rate-limit ICMP/traceroute responses (TTL Expired messages) for security, privacy, and to reduce router processing overhead.
• Hidden Hops: Carrier-grade firewalls and internal routers may be configured not to reply to probes or decrement TTL in ways that expose their internal architecture.
The backbone one connects to is only one part of the equation as it depends a lot on what sites one frequently connects to and what backbones those destinations are connected with that determines the quickest path between the source and the destination. Some destination sites only are connected to one backbone and some are connected to multiple backbones for redundancy. That is why it matters to choose the ISP that works the best for the sites one connects to if you want the best performance possible as the lowest latency and the speed is the objective of reaching the sites you most frequent. While there are many tier 1 backbones, the ones that carry 90% of the traffic worldwide are the ones that hopefully whatever ISP one chooses is directly connected to. There are also private peering points and public peering points locally so it does not always have to travel to a backbone provided that there is a peering agreement between the networks. All of this is done using BGP4 (Border Gateway Protocol version 4) which is how routes are announced as the path is determined by ASN (Autonomous System Numbers) so the routing table for different IPv4 or IPv6 can route a different way which all depends on the BGP4 announcements that the destination networks announced so like some sites may be just AS 701 100% of the way while other sites may be AS 701 to AS 1 or more and if there is peering, it may not even touch AS 701 at all and just connect directly between ones own AS drectly the the others AS (Autonomous System). AS has nothing to do with physical distance but just the shortest path of getting there.
This is better explained here:
Multiple access to the Internet via BGP4 protocol | BGP.us
BGP routing protocol was implemented when extensive routing tables started to significantly slow down the routers’ operation. Classless routing technique (CIDR) eliminates many bottlenecks and increases the stability of the Internet.
www.bgp.us
As I own and run a ISP, a lot of sites are actually local on the network as it's all on Akamai Technologies CDN (Content Delivery Network) servers which are physically hosted at our location so if one was visiting Apple, Microsoft, etc, the content is already on the Akamai server so it usually does not even need to travel the entire internet to get to it.
But on my home connection which is Comcast, it does travel all the way on Comcast before it hands off to Akamai's network in San Jose, CA before it reaches the Akamai server in Los Angeles which is probably located at One Wilshire Blvd in LA.
tracert www.apple.com
Tracing route to e6858.dsce9.akamaiedge.net [23.199.1.26]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.2.1
2 4 ms 6 ms 4 ms 10.0.0.1
3 15 ms 19 ms 20 ms 10.22.121.18
4 21 ms 19 ms 28 ms po-54-rur01.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [162.151.1.129]
5 16 ms 9 ms 11 ms po-100-xar01.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [68.85.57.245]
6 26 ms 10 ms 10 ms po-2-xar02.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [96.216.230.178]
7 22 ms 21 ms 16 ms ae-246-rar01.hayward.ca.sfba.comcast.net [96.216.231.69]
8 17 ms 18 ms 18 ms be-399-ar01.hayward.ca.sfba.comcast.net [68.86.143.89]
9 18 ms 13 ms 17 ms be-36321-cs02.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.93.133]
10 32 ms 34 ms 22 ms be-2211-pe11.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.246]
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 12 ms 13 ms 11 ms ae11.r02.sjc01.icn.netarch.akamai.com [23.207.232.38]
13 25 ms 19 ms 22 ms ae7.r23.lax01.icn.netarch.akamai.com [23.193.113.12]
14 28 ms 34 ms 26 ms ae0.r22.lax01.mag.netarch.akamai.com [23.192.3.66]
15 28 ms 28 ms 26 ms ae1.r22.lax01.ien.netarch.akamai.com [23.192.3.99]
16 25 ms 25 ms 26 ms ae22.r04.border101.lax01.fab.netarch.akamai.com [23.203.155.29]
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 22 ms 21 ms 20 ms a23-199-1-26.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [23.199.1.26]
Yet to reach Charles Schwab compared to Apple, it will actually use a Akamai server locally in the Silicon Valley on Akamai's network.
tracert www.schwab.com
Tracing route to e245857.x.akamaiedge.net [23.11.207.235]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 2 ms 15 ms 192.168.2.1
2 5 ms 4 ms 6 ms 10.0.0.1
3 14 ms 14 ms 16 ms 10.22.121.18
4 14 ms 9 ms 10 ms po-54-rur01.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [162.151.1.129]
5 14 ms 11 ms 11 ms po-100-xar01.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [68.85.57.245]
6 15 ms 24 ms 13 ms ae-246-rar01.santaclara.ca.sfba.comcast.net [69.139.199.149]
7 17 ms 19 ms 21 ms be-299-ar01.santaclara.ca.sfba.comcast.net [68.86.143.93]
8 50 ms 48 ms 53 ms 50.219.153.14
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 11 ms 10 ms 20 ms a23-11-207-235.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [23.11.207.235]
The *'s just means that ICMP ping packets are blocked or ignored as long as the latency looks normal. If it's some high number, then it means there is packet loss.
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Thanks, that's exactly right. AT&T wired or fiber is not around here. Unfortunately this is Verizon country.
It happened just recently, I think about four months ago.
We're in eastern upstate NY and AT&T is pretty good, for the most part it's 5G+. T-Mobile is definitely the fastest but not the best coverage, AT&T is next fastest with the best overall coverage and Verizon is the slowest with the worst coverage.
We're also looking forward to the new bands coming online.
No, Fiber to the towers is not CenturyLink for Drexel, MO because it can be either ILEC (Incumbent Local Exchange Carrier) or it can be CLEC (Competitive Local Exchange Carrier).
CenturyLink which has been known as Lumen Technologies is not the incumbent carrier in Drexel. In the Drexel, Missouri wire center and surrounding Cass/Bates county lines, alternative fiber and Competitive Local Exchange Carriers (CLECs) with active transport infrastructure include:
(Note: While Consolidated Communications—which operates retail services under the Fidium brand—is the historical wireline incumbent in Drexel itself rather than CenturyLink, wireless carriers frequently bypass the ILEC copper plant by pulling backhaul from Peoples or Conexon's fiber rings.)
- Peoples Telecommunications (Peoples Services): Operates extensive localized fiber facilities directly in the Drexel and Louisburg area, functioning as the primary regional CLEC/independent carrier on the ground.
- MoKan Communications (MoKan Dial): Maintains contiguous fiber routes right along the Missouri–Kansas border surrounding Drexel, often interconnecting or leasing dark fiber to neighboring towers.
- Conexon Connect: Builds and operates middle-mile and last-mile fiber networks across Cass County in partnership with local electric cooperatives, providing modern fiber transport paths through rural pockets around Drexel.
- Craw-Kan Telephone Cooperative: Holds an adjacent fiber footprint on the southern/Kansas edge of the Drexel exchange area that supports regional carrier transport.
So when it comes to connecting to the internet, you are really dealing with up to 3 companies whether it's AT&T or Verizon.
With AT&T, it can be up to 3 companies.
The first company is AT&T Wireless or AT&T California (ILEC) which provides the wireless connection or wired circuit to you.
The second company which applies only to physical circuits and not wireless service is AT&T Advanced Solutions Inc better known as ASI as a CLEC who provides the data transport between you and the ISP. If this was wireless, then it would be second company being the ISP. AT&T WorldNet being the ISP.
The third company would be the ISP itself which would be AT&T WorldNet if this was a wired connection.
As far as the Verizon backbone is concerned which is what was known as UUNet aka AlterNet (AS 701) as BBNPlanet (AS 1) later known as GTE Internetworking/Genuity has been sold to Level 3 and then CenturyLink which rebranded to Lumen Technologies.
While it will connect to Verizon's backbone which highly depends on the Access Point Name (APN) as using San Francisco where I am located for example,
a direct Verizon mobile customer will connect to Verizon's backbone in San Francisco. A Comcast/XfinityMobile customer which uses Verizon's towers will not as the first hop as seen in traceroutes can be in Houston, Chicago or Atlanta so to reach someone who uses Verizon across the street, the data packet will travel to one of those first and then travel back to San Francisco using Verizon. In both cases, you will always see Verizon Wireless as the first few hops before it will reach Verizon's Internet Backbone. MVNOs do not use the default APN and usually has their own gateways which in the case for Xfinity Mobile is COMCAST.RSLR.VZWENTP which is read just like internet domain names, in reverse order, Verizon Enterprise-Reseller-Comcast. XfinityMobile originally had high latency because of this reason which I and many others complained about but XfinityMobile ignored the issue until I filed a complaint with the FCC that finally pushed it to Xfinity Mobile's Engineering department which finally made it connect to Verizon Wireless's IP network in San Francisco and connected to Verizon's backbone locally.
So basically the APN is the invisible network you will not see in the traceroutes due to:
Mobile Access Point Names (APNs) – Cellular Networks
A cellular APN (the gateway connecting a mobile device to the carrier's packet data network):
• Carrier-Grade NAT (CGNAT) and Tunneling: Cellular data traffic is typically encapsulated inside tunnels (such as GTP - GPRS Tunneling Protocol) and routed through massive carrier gateways.
• ICMP Filtering and Rate Limiting: Mobile carriers and core network routers frequently block, drop, or rate-limit ICMP/traceroute responses (TTL Expired messages) for security, privacy, and to reduce router processing overhead.
• Hidden Hops: Carrier-grade firewalls and internal routers may be configured not to reply to probes or decrement TTL in ways that expose their internal architecture.
The backbone one connects to is only one part of the equation as it depends a lot on what sites one frequently connects to and what backbones those destinations are connected with that determines the quickest path between the source and the destination. Some destination sites only are connected to one backbone and some are connected to multiple backbones for redundancy. That is why it matters to choose the ISP that works the best for the sites one connects to if you want the best performance possible as the lowest latency and the speed is the objective of reaching the sites you most frequent. While there are many tier 1 backbones, the ones that carry 90% of the traffic worldwide are the ones that hopefully whatever ISP one chooses is directly connected to. There are also private peering points and public peering points locally so it does not always have to travel to a backbone provided that there is a peering agreement between the networks. All of this is done using BGP4 (Border Gateway Protocol version 4) which is how routes are announced as the path is determined by ASN (Autonomous System Numbers) so the routing table for different IPv4 or IPv6 can route a different way which all depends on the BGP4 announcements that the destination networks announced so like some sites may be just AS 701 100% of the way while other sites may be AS 701 to AS 1 or more and if there is peering, it may not even touch AS 701 at all and just connect directly between ones own AS drectly the the others AS (Autonomous System). AS has nothing to do with physical distance but just the shortest path of getting there.
This is better explained here:
Multiple access to the Internet via BGP4 protocol | BGP.us
BGP routing protocol was implemented when extensive routing tables started to significantly slow down the routers’ operation. Classless routing technique (CIDR) eliminates many bottlenecks and increases the stability of the Internet.
As I own and run a ISP, a lot of sites are actually local on the network as it's all on Akamai Technologies CDN (Content Delivery Network) servers which are physically hosted at our location so if one was visiting Apple, Microsoft, etc, the content is already on the Akamai server so it usually does not even need to travel the entire internet to get to it.
But on my home connection which is Comcast, it does travel all the way on Comcast before it hands off to Akamai's network in San Jose, CA before it reaches the Akamai server in Los Angeles which is probably located at One Wilshire Blvd in LA.
tracert www.apple.com
Tracing route to e6858.dsce9.akamaiedge.net [23.199.1.26]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.2.1
2 4 ms 6 ms 4 ms 10.0.0.1
3 15 ms 19 ms 20 ms 10.22.121.18
4 21 ms 19 ms 28 ms po-54-rur01.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [162.151.1.129]
5 16 ms 9 ms 11 ms po-100-xar01.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [68.85.57.245]
6 26 ms 10 ms 10 ms po-2-xar02.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [96.216.230.178]
7 22 ms 21 ms 16 ms ae-246-rar01.hayward.ca.sfba.comcast.net [96.216.231.69]
8 17 ms 18 ms 18 ms be-399-ar01.hayward.ca.sfba.comcast.net [68.86.143.89]
9 18 ms 13 ms 17 ms be-36321-cs02.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.93.133]
10 32 ms 34 ms 22 ms be-2211-pe11.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.246]
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 12 ms 13 ms 11 ms ae11.r02.sjc01.icn.netarch.akamai.com [23.207.232.38]
13 25 ms 19 ms 22 ms ae7.r23.lax01.icn.netarch.akamai.com [23.193.113.12]
14 28 ms 34 ms 26 ms ae0.r22.lax01.mag.netarch.akamai.com [23.192.3.66]
15 28 ms 28 ms 26 ms ae1.r22.lax01.ien.netarch.akamai.com [23.192.3.99]
16 25 ms 25 ms 26 ms ae22.r04.border101.lax01.fab.netarch.akamai.com [23.203.155.29]
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 22 ms 21 ms 20 ms a23-199-1-26.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [23.199.1.26]
Yet to reach Charles Schwab compared to Apple, it will actually use a Akamai server locally in the Silicon Valley on Akamai's network.
tracert www.schwab.com
Tracing route to e245857.x.akamaiedge.net [23.11.207.235]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 2 ms 15 ms 192.168.2.1
2 5 ms 4 ms 6 ms 10.0.0.1
3 14 ms 14 ms 16 ms 10.22.121.18
4 14 ms 9 ms 10 ms po-54-rur01.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [162.151.1.129]
5 14 ms 11 ms 11 ms po-100-xar01.sfmission.ca.sfba.comcast.net [68.85.57.245]
6 15 ms 24 ms 13 ms ae-246-rar01.santaclara.ca.sfba.comcast.net [69.139.199.149]
7 17 ms 19 ms 21 ms be-299-ar01.santaclara.ca.sfba.comcast.net [68.86.143.93]
8 50 ms 48 ms 53 ms 50.219.153.14
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 11 ms 10 ms 20 ms a23-11-207-235.deploy.static.akamaitechnologies.com [23.11.207.235]
The *'s just means that ICMP ping packets are blocked or ignored as long as the latency looks normal. If it's some high number, then it means there is packet loss.
Sorry, I meant Consolidated. That's who provided my DSL when I lived there and the tech who installed it told me they provide the backhaul to that tower. People's has only been in town for two years, maybe less.
Wow ,who would of thought there was this much to talk about when it came to phone companies?
Wow ,who would of thought there was this much to talk about when it came to phone companies?
One ringy dingy, two ringy dingies...
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