Dish Earnings Conference Call and reported HD Plans...
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I don't.Cyclone said:
This is the final price reduction on the 921's and I am told that when the 921's are GONE they are GONE.
921s are to be sold until their gone and I assume that whatever E* launches next will have a short life also (there is a big gap between now and late next year when they project MPEG-4 for HDTV).
The 921 is basically a PC with expansion slots. Perhaps Dish could surprise us with MPEG-4 expansion cards... A long shot I know given Dish's record, but they did indeed come out with an 8PSK card for the 6000.
It would be ironic if the 6000 could be upgraded (replacing the 8PSK card with 8PSK/MPEG-4) and the 811 became a doorstop...
It would be ironic if the 6000 could be upgraded (replacing the 8PSK card with 8PSK/MPEG-4) and the 811 became a doorstop...
So do Dish Network CSRs now give a "BTW, this is a dead end product" disclaimer when selling the 921 (and later on the 922)?
As I said elsewhere, what a clusterf*ck. Dish is really screwing their best customers on this one, unless they present a *very* attractive (i.e. free or close to it) upgrade for existing 921 owners. I don't usually think this way, but this really sounds like grounds for a class-action suit if it Dish follows this course of action (i.e. 921/922 dead-end, customer to pay the majority of the upgrade cost to get any future HD).
As I said elsewhere, what a clusterf*ck. Dish is really screwing their best customers on this one, unless they present a *very* attractive (i.e. free or close to it) upgrade for existing 921 owners. I don't usually think this way, but this really sounds like grounds for a class-action suit if it Dish follows this course of action (i.e. 921/922 dead-end, customer to pay the majority of the upgrade cost to get any future HD).
If Charlie is serious, the 942 will either come with an Mpeg4 decoder, or have some kind of slot for 1.
I'm disappointed he didn't have mpeg4 in the 811 & 921, but the decoders probably weren't ready.
I'm all for the mpeg4 it really makes sense, but if he orphans the 921 I'll be running to cable (I wouldn't trust DirecTV not to do the same). He really should try to figure out a way to use the expansion slots, but after the Firewire mess...
I'm disappointed he didn't have mpeg4 in the 811 & 921, but the decoders probably weren't ready.
I'm all for the mpeg4 it really makes sense, but if he orphans the 921 I'll be running to cable (I wouldn't trust DirecTV not to do the same). He really should try to figure out a way to use the expansion slots, but after the Firewire mess...
Is charlie a programmer or something? Have his words meant anything in the past anyway? Superdish, 921 with NBR, 921 with firewire, 921 not discontinued, etc..
Do you know this can't be done in software? A lot of computers do MPEG2 decodes in software. Does the 921 do it in software, or hardware? Can it be upgraded anyway? Can they put in a new slot? They did offer 8PSK upgrades for the 6000, why not do it again for the 921/811? The 921 has an FPGA that allows hardware upgrades via a downloadable image, can that be used to do it?
It doesn't seem like we still need more facts......
Do you know this can't be done in software? A lot of computers do MPEG2 decodes in software. Does the 921 do it in software, or hardware? Can it be upgraded anyway? Can they put in a new slot? They did offer 8PSK upgrades for the 6000, why not do it again for the 921/811? The 921 has an FPGA that allows hardware upgrades via a downloadable image, can that be used to do it?
It doesn't seem like we still need more facts......
jrbdmb said:I don't usually think this way, but this really sounds like grounds for a class-action suit if it Dish follows this course of action (i.e. 921/922 dead-end, customer to pay the majority of the upgrade cost to get any future HD).
Very poor/stupid customer service? Yes
Grounds for legal action? Highly unlikely.
You would pretty much have to have a written statement from Dish that guaranteed the 921 would never become obsolete.
NightRyder
jsanders said:
Have you ever compared software MPEG2 to hardware encoding/decoding on a computer? Even on a top of the line system the performance hit is substantial and the results less than optimal. There is no way the 921 has the kind of horsepower a software solution would require.
NightRyder
NightRyder said:
You should be able to put together a better argument than that :down ....
First, the 921 is a computer running Linux. Second, five years ago, my 400MHz powerbook could do an MPEG2 decode an play a DVD movie in software. The results were fine. The 921 isn't top of the line computer, but it should more horsepower than a 400MHz powerbook did.
You need to be more qualitative for your reasoning to have any weight to it. Let us know when you have some actual numbers.
Does anyone know how many MIPS an MPEG4 decode would take? Does anyone know what the processing throughput on the 921 is? Does anyone know if you could add a PCI card to do it, or if you could upgrade the FPGA image or something similar?
One cool thing about this is that you may well get more hours of programming on your hard drive if they do this.
NightRyder said:
We do have evidence that they didn't live up to their promises. Where is the firewire? When I bought this a year ago, it had firewire, it was supposed to work (OTA guide, record programs, time shift, channel surf, etc.), it didn't. It didn't do much other than freeze up. It didn't work as advertised. If you buy something that doesn't do the job it was intended, then there is reasonable grounds for settlement.
jsanders said:
No need to waste time on numbers when simple common sense applies. We are not talking about a computer designed for major upgrades but a piece of consumer grade hardware. Also remember that the box must be able to encode and decode at the same time. If there is anyone else here who thinks Dish can make these boxes perform HD MPEG4 encoding/decoding through a software upgrade I'll gladly bow out and leave you to your dream.
A hardware upgrade might be possible but I really have doubts Dish will provide one. They seem to want to follow the cable model with everyone leasing the equipment from them.
NightRyder
MPEG-4 High Profile is "much more" expensive to decode than MPEG-2.
The supposedly "faster" WMV9 HD requires 2.4 GHz with 384 MB (720p) or 3.0 GHz with 512 MB (1080p) (according to Microsoft at www.wmvhd.com).
EDIT: Also, AFAIK, there is no real-time MPEG-4 High Profile HD encoder at the moment, so the source could be a problem. That's why most, if not all, MPEG-4 HD broadcast plans are at least a year away.
Hong.
The supposedly "faster" WMV9 HD requires 2.4 GHz with 384 MB (720p) or 3.0 GHz with 512 MB (1080p) (according to Microsoft at www.wmvhd.com).
EDIT: Also, AFAIK, there is no real-time MPEG-4 High Profile HD encoder at the moment, so the source could be a problem. That's why most, if not all, MPEG-4 HD broadcast plans are at least a year away.
Hong.
hongcho said:
Thanks Hong. That would explain why I can't find any numbers for a realtime MPEG 4 HD encoder/decoder. From your numbers it looks like MPEG4 HD will require some very heavy processing power. Of course in consumer electronics an optimized DSP will be the workhorse.
NightRyder
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