Dish/Echostar 1st Quarter Report

[Bruce]

Looks like the only way out of DISH's mess is to go bankrupt and reorganize their debt.

With how high the debt is-

• EchoStar long term debt for the quarter ending March 31, 2025 was $25.328B, a 28.59% increase year-over-year.
• 
  
• EchoStar total liabilities for the quarter ending March 31, 2025 were $40.509B, a 13.42% increase year-over-year.

I believe it might be the only option based on the amounts above.

But the FCC might not let him continue to hoard all the spectrum he has that he is not using. He might have to sell it off to pay some of his debts or to keep Boost in business?

They have set dates when they are allowed to sell (lease out) the spectrum, believe the first date is next year.

EchoStar Total Liabilities 2010-2025 | SATS

EchoStar total liabilities from 2010 to 2025. Total liabilities can be defined as the total value of all possible claims against the corporation. <ul style='margin-top:10px;'> <li>EchoStar total liabilities for the quarter ending March 31, 2025 were <strong>$40.509B</strong>, a...

macrotrends.net

 

[telstar_1]

Looks like the only way out of DISH's mess is to go bankrupt and reorganize their debt. But the FCC might not let him continue to hoard all the spectrum he has that he is not using. He might have to sell it off to pay some of his debts or to keep Boost in business? As the Echostar World Turns. Love the Soap reference.

Right, but BK proceedings take time, sometimes a lot of time before approval of restructuring and asset allocation. So right now he's probably trying to stretch out as far as possible the start of all of that

 

[Bruce]

Right, but BK proceedings take time, sometimes a lot of time before approval of restructuring and asset allocation. So right now he's probably trying to stretch out as far as possible the start of all of that

I believe the Bally Sport's Chapter 11 lasted almost 2 years.

Dish/Echostar will be extremely more complicated.

For one example, some of the Bond Holders have shown they are not that flexible.

 

[nelson61]

The judge would have lots of options.
Bankruptcy attorneys will tell you it is better to file earlier than later.
Why?
Because it is likely the existing management will remain as debtors in possession and the judge lets them keep the assets, both cash, contracts, and hard assets while things roll along. The creditors will howl and scream but the assets stays with the business in an effort to get it successfully reorganized.

Also, it is quite normal for the judge to carve out a special protection for the employees (normally at the bottom of the pile) to protect their jobs and benefits.

It's all about trying to get the business back up and running successfully.

Been there, done that while working for a Federal Bankruptcy Trustee for several years.

 

[telstar_1]

But the tv service isn't insolvent. The trouble is coming from something that isn't "running"- c's overleveraging on auctioned spectrum that came with requirements he has failed to fulfill. Remember he was always taunting telling the dealers "Follow the rules, get paid. Don't follow the rules, don't get paid."

 

[nelson61]

None of it is insolvent. They are chosing to sit on the cash and not make bond payments until they find out what the FCC guy is up to.

 

[That American Girl]

And more-

"In our view, the initial FCC filings could be interpreted as a 'shot across the bows' of EchoStar who have struggled to build a sustainable wireless business, even with the better April KPIs they are a very long way from being profitable. We do believe there is a growing case (and arguably the FCC review could be a catalyst for this) to sell their wireless spectrum (c. 130Mhz) and possibly wireless subscribers to the existing 3 wireless carriers (something the ex-FCC chair Tom Wheeler recently suggested may be possible in an event we hosted). This may come with a big spectrum spend cost but could remove a significant long-term overhang (a deep pocketed investor buying the SATS wireless operations) for the wireless industry."

Bank: "FCC fires shot across the bows at EchoStar"

Earlier in May the FCC launched a review into EchoStar’s compliance with certain 5G wireless coverage obligations (as part of their efforts to build the fourt

www.advanced-television.com

Can someone 'dumb'this down for me... I've read this several times but..

If Charlie misses the payment..is it possible that Boost would no longer...exist? Still function but under a different entity? Be force sold to a different carrier?

 

[dishdude]

Can someone 'dumb'this down for me... I've read this several times but..

If Charlie misses the payment..is it possible that Boost would no longer...exist? Still function but under a different entity? Be force sold to a different carrier?

The TV business is profitable, it isn't going away. With chapter 11 bankruptcy they can spin/sell off the wireless business and shed a lot of the debt they have. They just haven't found a way to generate cash flow with all the money they sunk into building out the network.

 

[MikeD-C05]

The TV business is profitable, it isn't going away. With chapter 11 bankruptcy they can spin/sell off the wireless business and shed a lot of the debt they have. They just haven't found a way to generate cash flow with all the money they sunk into building out the network.

But would Charlie want to sell off Boost and it's subscribers after all the money he sank into building the damn network for his cell phone company? IF he wants to get out of all debt and do that , wouldn't he be back where he started with just DISH satellite and Echostar? I don't see how just concentrating on selling rural areas satellite TV is going to sustain him over the long run.

 

[dishdude]

But would Charlie want to sell off Boost and it's subscribers after all the money he sank into building the damn network for his cell phone company? IF he wants to get out of all debt and do that , wouldn't he be back where he started with just DISH satellite and Echostar? I don't see how just concentrating on selling rural areas satellite TV is going to sustain him over the long run.

I'm sure he doesn't want to, but the satellite TV business is sustainable currently and for a few more years, the wireless business just doesn't have nearly enough cashflow to cover the debt. The creditors haven't appeared to be working with him so that really limits his options.

 

[nelson61]

Quite plausible, the judge could tell the bondholders they are going to get delayed or reduced payment in order to keep the 4th largest wireless provider and one of the two satellite tv providers a going business. He could also convert the bondholder debt to ownership in a reorganized company.

The thing is in chapter 11, none of the management, the bondholders, the stockholders, the vendors, or the employees are the decision makers.
The judge is the decider.

The judge can manage a debt restructuring (the primary issue in EchoStar's case), spin off parts of the company to either "save that part" or to reduce debt, or partially liquidate it or in liquidate it entirely.

Management and debt holders (bondholders) normally don't like Chapter 11 because they are no longer the deciders.

 

[Bruce]

I'm sure he doesn't want to, but the satellite TV business is sustainable currently and for a few more years,

At the current rate of losses, Dish will be about 3 Million subscribers, Sling will be close to zero in two years.

Will Dish be profitable at 3 million subscribers, barely, but one more year, will be 2 Million subscribers, definitely not.

the wireless business just doesn't have nearly enough cashflow to cover the debt.

It is an impossibility now to ever catch up either, unless there is a major price war, which the other carriers will do the same, snuff Boost right out of business.

Plus the fact that Charter/Comcast has past them-

Charter/Spectrum 10.4 Million

Comcast now has 8.14 Million

Boost Mobile 7.2 Million

The creditors haven't appeared to be working with him so that really limits his options.

Based on how they have been treated, I would guess they have no goodwill towards Echostar.

 

[HipKat]

Can someone 'dumb'this down for me... I've read this several times but..

If Charlie misses the payment..is it possible that Boost would no longer...exist? Still function but under a different entity? Be force sold to a different carrier?

It's a crock of s**t. The accusation that Dish hasn't met its FCC obligations is a lie. The entire Boost Mobile 5G network is using Dish's 5G towers and network.
If Elon wants Dish's spectrum, it's because it's valuable.
Why those payments weren't made, I don't know but I feel we are overreacting here.

Right now, Apple phones that lose signal connect to Starlink.
What if Boost phones that lose signal connect to HughesNet J3, J3/Fusion???

On top of that, a new marketing campaign with three months of free service is about to launch to try, hopefully regrow the TV side.

Meanwhile, Boost is growing, we're seeing a big push in new customers, new work orders for phone delivery and setups, and soon cross-sales to new and existing Dish customers.

 

[nelson61]

The business press has mused that the FCC guy was pushing to get Musk some of the frequency.
And, went on to say the FCC guy is messing with fire if he damages/destroys the viable 4th cell phone provider.

People tend to forget, the big money has been spent, the nationwide network is essentially complete. And, it is working much as EchoStar had predicted.
Yes, they have to capture more market share but it will happen if they continue on their planned path.

Ask your typical congressman and they will tell you they want more competition not less.

 

[dishdude]

Apparently investors think things look promising.

 

[nelson61]

Somebody heard a good rumor or has some inside info.

 

[Bruce]

Apparently investors think things look promising.

View attachment 182300

and down to 17.50 so far today, when the stock market is having a rally.

 

[dishdude]

and down to 17.50 so far today, when the stock market is having a rally.

It should be $0 with their impending bankruptcy.

 

[Bruce]

It should be $0 with their impending bankruptcy.

Just not expecting that this soon, maybe after a few more quarters, see how business is going, but the FCC fight has seemed to move up the possibility of a Chapter 11 a lot sooner.

I have no idea how much cash Echostar has currently, but if dwindling, half a billion in interest payments might be too painful right now.

 

[AZ.]

Ask your typical congressman and they will tell you they want more competition not less.

I most certainty do not believe this! Look what just has happened in the radio, and TV acquisitions.

The amount of pushback is minimal at best!