Dish/Echostar Q4 2023 Report

[Bruce]

Do not kill the messenger, it is not pretty, while Dish’s losses are still less then DirecTV, with Sling’s losses, it is getting pretty close.

They had high hopes once the merger was completed, things would be looking up, but they are getting worse-

For the year, this is 3 quarters without Dish, 1 Quarter with-

• EchoStar reported 2023 total revenue of $17.02 billion, compared to $18.63 billion in 2022. The net decrease in revenue primarily resulted from subscriber declines, most significantly in its Pay-TV segment.

For the 4th Quarter-

Consolidated revenue totaled $4.16 billion for the fourth quarter, compared to $4.53 billion in the year-ago quarter. The net decrease in revenue primarily resulted from subscriber declines, most significantly in the Pay-TV segment.

Net loss attributable to EchoStar totaled $2.03 billion for the fourth quarter, compared to net income attributable to EchoStar of $984 million in the year-ago quarter.

Net Pay-TV subscribers decreased approximately 314,000 in the fourth quarter, compared to a decrease of approximately 268,000 in the year-ago quarter, 60,000 of the total was Sling subscribers.

The company closed the quarter with 8.53 million Pay-TV subscribers including 6.47 million DISH TV subscribers and 2.06 million SLING TV subscribers.

Retail Wireless net subscribers decreased by approximately 123,000 in the fourth quarter, compared to a net decrease of 25,000 in the year-ago quarter. The company closed the quarter with 7.38 million Retail Wireless subscriber.

Their phone service has lost at least 1.60 million since Dish acquired it, the new marketing plan is not working.

For Hughes-Broadband net subscribers decreased by approximately 59,000 in the fourth quarter, compared to a decrease of 57,000 in the year-ago quarter. The company closed the quarter with 1.00 million Broadband subscribers.

By the way, this is two quarters in a row Dish has lost money, Echostar was profitable last quarter, since the merger, lost $2 Billion.

Lastly, this-

“With the close of the merger, we will continue to integrate our business and realize savings and operational efficiencies. We also will increase our focus on identifying and targeting the best, most profitable customers in each of our addressable market segments – Pay-TV, Retail Wireless, and Broadband and Satellite Services.”

Translation, cut back on the discounts, price increase soon.

EchoStar Announces Financial Results for the Three and Twelve Months Ended December 31, 2023

/PRNewswire/ -- EchoStar Corporation (NASDAQ: SATS) announced its financial results for the three and twelve months ended December 31, 2023. Twelve Months...

www.prnewswire.com

 

[zippyfrog]

Wow! I was hoping I was wrong, but Dish lost more than I expected.

 

[Juan]

Do not kill the messenger, it is not pretty, while Dish’s losses are still less then DirecTV, with Sling’s losses, it is getting pretty close.

They had high hopes once the merger was completed, things would be looking up, but they are getting worse-

For the year, this is 3 quarters without Dish, 1 Quarter with-

• EchoStar reported 2023 total revenue of $17.02 billion, compared to $18.63 billion in 2022. The net decrease in revenue primarily resulted from subscriber declines, most significantly in its Pay-TV segment.

For the 4th Quarter-

Consolidated revenue totaled $4.16 billion for the fourth quarter, compared to $4.53 billion in the year-ago quarter. The net decrease in revenue primarily resulted from subscriber declines, most significantly in the Pay-TV segment.

Net loss attributable to EchoStar totaled $2.03 billion for the fourth quarter, compared to net income attributable to EchoStar of $984 million in the year-ago quarter.

Net Pay-TV subscribers decreased approximately 314,000 in the fourth quarter, compared to a decrease of approximately 268,000 in the year-ago quarter, 60,000 of the total was Sling subscribers.

The company closed the quarter with 8.53 million Pay-TV subscribers including 6.47 million DISH TV subscribers and 2.06 million SLING TV subscribers.

Retail Wireless net subscribers decreased by approximately 123,000 in the fourth quarter, compared to a net decrease of 25,000 in the year-ago quarter. The company closed the quarter with 7.38 million Retail Wireless subscriber.

Their phone service has lost at least 1.60 million since Dish acquired it, the new marketing plan is not working.

For Hughes-Broadband net subscribers decreased by approximately 59,000 in the fourth quarter, compared to a decrease of 57,000 in the year-ago quarter. The company closed the quarter with 1.00 million Broadband subscribers.

By the way, this is two quarters in a row Dish has lost money, Echostar was profitable last quarter, since the merger, lost $2 Billion.

Lastly, this-

“With the close of the merger, we will continue to integrate our business and realize savings and operational efficiencies. We also will increase our focus on identifying and targeting the best, most profitable customers in each of our addressable market segments – Pay-TV, Retail Wireless, and Broadband and Satellite Services.”

Translation, cut back on the discounts, price increase soon.

EchoStar Announces Financial Results for the Three and Twelve Months Ended December 31, 2023

/PRNewswire/ -- EchoStar Corporation (NASDAQ: SATS) announced its financial results for the three and twelve months ended December 31, 2023. Twelve Months...

www.prnewswire.com

Cutting the discounts will just increase sub losses

 

[Bruce]

Cutting the discounts will just increase sub losses

duh.

DirecTV, Comcast, Charter, etc have all done this many times, cut discounts, raise prices, then the churn increases more then they expected, bring back the discounts, then stop them again, rinse and repeat many times.

Dish’s issues is they need cash now, they have about $6-9 Billion due this year, both in debt/bond payments and they have to pay T-Mobile $3.6 Billion for spectrum on April 1, cash on hand was Echostar $2 Billion, Dish $1 Billion on Sept.1, before the merger.

https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/news/dish-network-pays-100m-to-t-mobile-to-push-off-3-6b-spectrum-decision/2023/10/

Dish Network (DISH) - Cash on Hand

Current and historical cash on hand for Dish Network

companiesmarketcap.com

EchoStar (SATS) - Cash on Hand

Current and historical cash on hand for EchoStar

companiesmarketcap.com

Today, Market Cap is $3.55 Billion.

EchoStar (SATS) - Market capitalization

As of March 2024 EchoStar has a market cap of $3.86 Billion. This makes EchoStar the world's 3067th most valuable company according to our data.

companiesmarketcap.com

 

[That American Girl]

Do not kill the messenger, it is not pretty, while Dish’s losses are still less then DirecTV, with Sling’s losses, it is getting pretty close.

They had high hopes once the merger was completed, things would be looking up, but they are getting worse-

For the year, this is 3 quarters without Dish, 1 Quarter with-

• EchoStar reported 2023 total revenue of $17.02 billion, compared to $18.63 billion in 2022. The net decrease in revenue primarily resulted from subscriber declines, most significantly in its Pay-TV segment.

For the 4th Quarter-

Consolidated revenue totaled $4.16 billion for the fourth quarter, compared to $4.53 billion in the year-ago quarter. The net decrease in revenue primarily resulted from subscriber declines, most significantly in the Pay-TV segment.

Net loss attributable to EchoStar totaled $2.03 billion for the fourth quarter, compared to net income attributable to EchoStar of $984 million in the year-ago quarter.

Net Pay-TV subscribers decreased approximately 314,000 in the fourth quarter, compared to a decrease of approximately 268,000 in the year-ago quarter, 60,000 of the total was Sling subscribers.

The company closed the quarter with 8.53 million Pay-TV subscribers including 6.47 million DISH TV subscribers and 2.06 million SLING TV subscribers.

Retail Wireless net subscribers decreased by approximately 123,000 in the fourth quarter, compared to a net decrease of 25,000 in the year-ago quarter. The company closed the quarter with 7.38 million Retail Wireless subscriber.

Their phone service has lost at least 1.60 million since Dish acquired it, the new marketing plan is not working.

For Hughes-Broadband net subscribers decreased by approximately 59,000 in the fourth quarter, compared to a decrease of 57,000 in the year-ago quarter. The company closed the quarter with 1.00 million Broadband subscribers.

By the way, this is two quarters in a row Dish has lost money, Echostar was profitable last quarter, since the merger, lost $2 Billion.

Lastly, this-

“With the close of the merger, we will continue to integrate our business and realize savings and operational efficiencies. We also will increase our focus on identifying and targeting the best, most profitable customers in each of our addressable market segments – Pay-TV, Retail Wireless, and Broadband and Satellite Services.”

Translation, cut back on the discounts, price increase soon.

EchoStar Announces Financial Results for the Three and Twelve Months Ended December 31, 2023

/PRNewswire/ -- EchoStar Corporation (NASDAQ: SATS) announced its financial results for the three and twelve months ended December 31, 2023. Twelve Months...

www.prnewswire.com

So, instead of making 4 and a half billion, we ONLY made 4 billion... feel sorry for us please.


And yes I know it's FAR more complicated that this, but..... lol

 

[Bruce]

So, instead of making 4 and a half billion, we ONLY made 4 billion... feel sorry for us please.


And yes I know it's FAR more complicated that this, but..... lol

Did you not read all of that, still lost $2 Billion, in very simple terms, if they made $6 Billion, basically net income would be $0.

from the link-

Consolidated revenue totaled $4.16 billion for the fourth quarter, compared to $4.53 billion in the year-ago quarter. The net decrease in revenue primarily resulted from subscriber declines, most significantly in the Pay-TV segment.

Net loss attributable to EchoStar totaled $2.03 billion for the fourth quarter, compared to net income attributable to EchoStar of $984 million in the year-ago quarter.

 

[Bruce]

Dish’s issues is they need cash now, they have about $6-9 Billion due this year, both in debt/bond payments and they have to pay T-Mobile $3.6 Billion for spectrum on April 1

Not anymore, just reported-

Debt-laden Dish Network Corp. said it’s unlikely to meet an April 1 deadline to buy prized airwaves from T-Mobile USA Inc., a failure that would set in motion an auction of the frequencies valued at $3.6 billion or more.

Attempts to find financing for the purchase were unsuccessful, and “we no longer believe it is probable that we will exercise the option,” Dish parent company EchoStar Corp. said in a filing late Thursday.

Dish Says Unlikely to Buy T-Mobile Airwaves as Auction Looms

Debt-laden Dish Network Corp. said it’s unlikely to meet an April 1 deadline to buy prized airwaves from T-Mobile USA Inc., a failure that would set in motion an auction of the frequencies valued at $3.6 billion or more.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[navychop]

Quit squirming, you’re throwing off my aim!

 

[nelson61]

EchoStar XXV. On March 20, 2023, we entered into a contract with Maxar Space LLC for the construction of EchoStar XXV, a DBS satellite that is capable of providing service to the continental United States (“CONUS”) and is intended to be used at the 110 degree orbital location. During the fourth quarter of 2023, we entered into an agreement with Space Exploration Technologies Corp (“SpaceX”) for launch services for this satellite, which is expected to be launched during 2026.

 

[nelson61]

The SEC link for detailed info

Inline XBRL Viewer

 

[Bruce]

EchoStar XXV. On March 20, 2023, we entered into a contract with Maxar Space LLC for the construction of EchoStar XXV, a DBS satellite that is capable of providing service to the continental United States (“CONUS”) and is intended to be used at the 110 degree orbital location. During the fourth quarter of 2023, we entered into an agreement with Space Exploration Technologies Corp (“SpaceX”) for launch services for this satellite, which is expected to be launched during 2026.

When they ordered that, things were totally different.

And I thought that is what Echostar does, build Satellites?

Again, I thought buying the spectrum was a great idea, what they did and still are doing with the Spectrum is baffling, why keep holding on to it, not generating income, except more interest on the debt they owe.

Even if they announce in May, we are about to offer a 5G Broadband service, it is too late, that market is owned by T-Mobile, AT&T and Verizon, those 3 have a massive advantage since they have been offering their services for a few years, plus in the build out.

Same reason why Boost is failing , the big guys ( who have been doing it a lot longer) are offering the same or better deals, snuffing out Dish’s Cell Service.

 

[jackson85]

duh.

DirecTV, Comcast, Charter, etc have all done this many times, cut discounts, raise prices, then the churn increases more then they expected, bring back the discounts, then stop them again, rinse and repeat many times.

Dish’s issues is they need cash now, they have about $6-9 Billion due this year, both in debt/bond payments and they have to pay T-Mobile $3.6 Billion for spectrum on April 1, cash on hand was Echostar $2 Billion, Dish $1 Billion on Sept.1, before the merger.

https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/news/dish-network-pays-100m-to-t-mobile-to-push-off-3-6b-spectrum-decision/2023/10/

Dish Network (DISH) - Cash on Hand

Current and historical cash on hand for Dish Network

companiesmarketcap.com

EchoStar (SATS) - Cash on Hand

Current and historical cash on hand for EchoStar

companiesmarketcap.com

Today, Market Cap is $3.55 Billion.

EchoStar (SATS) - Market capitalization

As of March 2024 EchoStar has a market cap of $3.86 Billion. This makes EchoStar the world's 3067th most valuable company according to our data.

companiesmarketcap.com

So, a merger with Directv would make it even more of a suicidal mission. Increases on Dish Customers will only drive them to cut the cord, and go to streaming with YouTube TV or Companies like YouTube TV. I don't want to lean towards that, but if it goes under, that maybe my only choice

 

[Bruce]

So, a merger with Directv would make it even more of a suicidal mission. Increases on Dish Customers will only drive them to cut the cord, and go to streaming with YouTube TV or Companies like YouTube TV.

Every time a service does this, not just Dish, try to focus on the highest paying subscribers, ignore the lower paying, no more discounts to stay , it never works, then months or year later, start offering the discounts again because they are losing too many subscribers.

Comcast, Spectrum and DirecTV have done this, best thing to do is figure out the medium that will make everyone happy.

I remember when DirecTV was only doing the one year discount on a two year contract , guess what happened, not that many new subscribers, went back to two year, but the damaged was done, the subs leaving DirecTV is almost double then Dish.

If you think Dish’s problems are bad, largely self created because of the 5G Money Pit, DirecTV’s are worse, when AT&T bought them, DirecTV Satellite had almost 22 Million , Uverse had about 4 Million subscribers.

Now, a total of 10.8 Million, which includes Satellite, DirecTV Stream, DirecTV by Internet and Uverse, a loss of 11 million and every quarter, about 500,000 leave on average.

Again, if Dish did not have the debt from the Spectrum, they would of easily outlasted DirecTV life as a service.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

And I thought that is what Echostar does, build Satellites?

No they have never built satellites. They do mostly hardware but now with DISH back in the family they are doing software again too.

 

[CSM]

Can Dish afford to build and launch that new satellite anymore? Could they get out of that contract with Maxar Space LLC?

 

[nelson61]

The satellite will be built, the satellite will be launched.

Contrary to some hysteria , dish satellite is still a money making business.

 

[CSM]

The satellite will be built, the satellite will be launched.

Contrary to some hysteria , dish satellite is still a money making business.

What happens if they file for bankruptcy and can't come back from it?

 

[nelson61]

What happens if they file for bankruptcy and can't come back from it?

You answered that question youself

 

[HipKat]

When they ordered that, things were totally different.

And I thought that is what Echostar does, build Satellites?

Again, I thought buying the spectrum was a great idea, what they did and still are doing with the Spectrum is baffling, why keep holding on to it, not generating income, except more interest on the debt they owe.

Even if they announce in May, we are about to offer a 5G Broadband service, it is too late, that market is owned by T-Mobile, AT&T and Verizon, those 3 have a massive advantage since they have been offering their services for a few years, plus in the build out.

Much like the Hopper+ and streaming - 3-5 years too late

Same reason why Boost is failing , the big guys ( who have been doing it a lot longer) are offering the same or better deals, snuffing out Dish’s Cell Service.

I'm not sure who offers better than $60/mo with free phones that, in some instances, work off Dish/AT&T and T-Mobile towers

 

[Bruce]

I'm not sure who offers better than $60/mo with free phones that, in some instances, work off Dish/AT&T and T-Mobile towers

These deals are everywhere in the prepaid market

The best deal I found was with Spectrum, this is post paid-

Switch now and save with our best price on Unlimited Mobile – just $15/month per line when you get two lines. Pair with the latest phones and enjoy reliable nationwide 5G access.

• Unlimited talk, text and data (full speeds up to 30 GB)
• No added taxes or fees
• No contracts

So two lines, the Samsung A54 is $12 a month, so with two phones, two lines, price would be $59 a month.