DISH HD vs Off air HD

brad1138

Thread Starter
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Mar 20, 2006
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Red Dwarf
OK we now have our locals, or some of them, but how do they stack up against off air picture quality. The Sat locals are delayed about 5-7 secs but it takes about 4-5 secs for the picture to come on when you switch to Sat local, so its hard to see the same picture for a few secs when changing. I thought I noticed the E* locals not being as smooth. The edge of a newscasters face (diagonal edge) was a little blocky and the off air was perfectly smooth.

I realize its brand new and maybe it will improve a bit, but what are you guys noticing?

Brad
 

MikeD-C05

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Nov 25, 2003
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Nederland , Texas
I notice that the Abc and Fox station in hd in the Houston Dish hd locals, are coming in fine and they look very good . The Cbs station is a little jerky and not as life like. I don't get Nbc yet in hd. I wonder if it is because they are presenting all the locals in 720p that is the native resolution of ABC and FOX and that Cbs is in 1080i when it is being transmitted over the air. Maybe when Dish down converts it to 720p this causes the jerky picture. It looks like it is missing every other frame and the people looks a little robotic.

** Notice that this is not as bad as the 622 and its jerky video stutter. They are two different things. One is a software bug and the other is something in the way they are transmitting it or down converting it.
 

riffjim4069

SatelliteGuys Master
Supporting Founder
Apr 7, 2004
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Washington DC HD LIL...

*recap of information posted in the following threads*

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=64857
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=61437
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=61079

...I've noticed the following:

WTTG-DT (FOX, 720p, 6362): looks great...very close to OTA, no problems noticed.
WJLA-DT (ABC, 720p, 6359): softer that OTA...noticed video/audio problems at times.
WRC-DT (NBC, 1080i, 6351): much softer than OTA...a variety of chronic video/audio problems.
WUSA-DT (CBS, 1080i, 6360): horribly soft PQ...video has trailing effects like you're watching on while on LSD, persistent audio/video/sync problems.

The MPEG-4 encoders are doing a good job with 720p and a piss-poor job with 1080i IMO.

* I think we should make this is sticky and request that everyone identify their location, specific information, and quality or problems noticed in order to help E* troubleshoot and resolve our HD LIL problems. Oh, and perhaps change the title to "MPEG-4 HD LIL QUALITY AND PROBLEMS" or something similar.

I just came across BFG's Dish HD bitrates as measured on 9 April:

WJLA (ABC - 1080i) 6359 9.06
WUSA (CBS - 720p) 6360 7.07
WRC (NBC - 1080i) 6361 7.64
WTTG (FOX - 720p) 6362 9.59

The average bitrate for the MPEG-4 720p channels is 9.326 Mb while the average bitrate of the MPEG-4 1080i channels is only 7.355 Mb. If anything, E* should allocate an additional 2Mb to each of the 1080i channels. It's funny, because if look at my observations posted last month, you'll see the quality of the DC HD LIL mirrors the bitrate.
 

navychop

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Jul 20, 2005
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By and large, OTA will deliver the highest possible PQ. It will likely be processed and compressed the least. Yes, there are exceptions, especially if the OTA is multicast.

It's one of the reasons I put up an OTA antenna.
 

caam1

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 7, 2004
245
4
Fort Worth, TX
In the DFW market the FOX station is the only network station that transmits 720p (WFAA the ABC station up-converts the network and transmits at 1080i). For the few minutes I watched it, FOX looked good on the E* LIL channel. The other three networks looked good as long as there was no movement in the picture, but had a definite "strobing" effect when there was any movement in the picture. The picture on the 1080i channels looked like the frame rate was lower than normal. I only watched them for a few minutes, and then switched back to OTA. I will probably only use them (unless the quality improves), when I have a need to record multiple network programs at the same time on my 622.
 
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Mike4HDTV

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 14, 2005
238
1
Danbury, CT
I find that the Miami OTA HD channels are sharper than the Local HD channels on Dish. There is not a huge difference but it is noticeable.

I was switching between OTA and Dish last night while watching Alias on ABC. The OTA was sharper and more detailed.
 

Cyclone

Proud Stiff Member
Supporting Founder
Sep 9, 2003
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Maryland
I wonder how much diskspace an hour of MPEG4 will take up compared to an hour of MPEG2 on the same channel. I'll have to test it out.
 

who_the

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Supporting Founder
Dec 18, 2004
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San Francisco, Calif.
I found San Francisco's LiL HD from Dish to be significantly degraded from OTA HD. Alias had virtually no grain, with noticeably less detail, and the Tonight Show had swimmy backgrounds, poor detail, and a jittery look, presumably from dropped frames.

I'd give Dish a 6.2 out of 10 based on the first day's PQ.
 

bigbert

Member
Apr 14, 2006
9
0
McKinney, TX
Yeah, I must agree it's been somewhat of an anticlimactic experience. I purchased my HD set last year knowing I wouldn't get Dallas HD locals from Dish and had an OTA antenna installed for that reason. Every time the picture broke up or pixelated I reminded myself and my wife that Dish would soon offer the HD channels through the satellite and we shouldn't worry about it.

Well, now that Dish is offering the local HD channels in Dallas I find myself going back to my OTA antenna. I sure hope this is something that can be fixed because I am dreading my DirectTV brother-in-law seeing how bad the quality is!
 

waltinvt

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Feb 16, 2004
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Vermont
bigbert said:
Yeah, I must agree it's been somewhat of an anticlimactic experience. I purchased my HD set last year knowing I wouldn't get Dallas HD locals from Dish and had an OTA antenna installed for that reason. Every time the picture broke up or pixelated I reminded myself and my wife that Dish would soon offer the HD channels through the satellite and we shouldn't worry about it.

Well, now that Dish is offering the local HD channels in Dallas I find myself going back to my OTA antenna. I sure hope this is something that can be fixed because I am dreading my DirectTV brother-in-law seeing how bad the quality is!

It's going to be fixed about the same time they redesign the paper containers inside cereal boxes and invent DVD box containers that can actually be opened in less than ten minutes.

Why should businesses be any less self-serving than the individules that comprise them?
 

120inna55

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 14, 2003
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Athens, Texas, United States
bigbert said:
Yeah, I must agree it's been somewhat of an anticlimactic experience. I purchased my HD set last year knowing I wouldn't get Dallas HD locals from Dish and had an OTA antenna installed for that reason. Every time the picture broke up or pixelated I reminded myself and my wife that Dish would soon offer the HD channels through the satellite and we shouldn't worry about it.

Well, now that Dish is offering the local HD channels in Dallas I find myself going back to my OTA antenna. I sure hope this is something that can be fixed ...

This is exactly the way I feel. I never expected the dramatic difference. I'd changed all my timers over to record the "more reliable" LiL's, but given the quality, I may have to switch 'em back. It's a shame that break-up and fades is a better option over the current quality of the HD LiLs. I, too, hope that this is just temporary.
 

dlsnyder

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
1,825
3
Moreno Valley, CA
Does Dish carry any of the sub channels available on the OTA channels? There are several of them out here in the LA area that are very good and worth watching. Then there is the matter of no PBS being carried. Alot of good HD content on the PBS-HD channels. I wouldn't want to rely solely on Dish and give up the additional content available OTA.
 

txfeinbergs

SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 21, 2006
80
2
Any of you guys in Dallas notice your OTA timers starting to disappear since they turned in the High Def Lil on Wednesday. I have lost all of my timers twice now since the channels were added. Never had this problem prior to the new channels.
 

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