Dish to begin DRM on PPV May 6th
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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isn't this just the first step of DRM? I thought i read that soon ALL programming will be using DRM unless you have your DRV hooked to a HDMI cable to the TV. In other words component and RCA cable hookups will see a degradation of the HD picture.
So what about the many that use component for HD for various reasons.
I know some Dish receivers were having trouble with HDMI and were forced to use component.
In fact I have a HDTV with the "Dish" brand name that doesn't have any HDMI inputs at all and only one DVI input. I have to use the DVI with an HEMI adapter for my HD-DVD player, so am forced to use the 2 component inputs for Dish & cable connections.
Is the "degradation" for the composite (and I assume you include S-Video) more than just reducing the PQ to 480i ?
You don't even want to mess with composite (single yellow cable) or S-Video. That's the two lowest video signals available. Component and DVI/HDMI are your best quality signals.
Even if they downrezz the component output to 480i with the DRM implementation, it'll still look better than either composite or S-Video...
I believe that somewhere in this forum it was stated that forcing the use of HDMI was inevitable sooner or later, and those who have what best can be described as early versions of HD TV’s without any HDMI or HDCP compliant DVI inputs are pretty much screwed.
I have a Mitsubishi 65813 TV that has a HDCP compliant DVI input so I would need to use a HDMI to DVI cable with a separate cable for sound but I won’t be doing any of this until I’m forced to.
Anyway, I think this may be some cause for concern for E* since I recall reading about defective/broken HDMI ports on many receivers. I don’t think E* would be too happy about the need to replace large numbers of receivers just to get HDMI working.
Finally, for those that are seemingly screwed by the eventual HDMI mandate there are options such as a little device that will convert HDMI to component passing full 1080p through it. Some have suggested the use of this device may be illegal but I don’t consider it any more illegal than what they’re doing. As a paying subscriber of HD content you should be able to view that content in HD.
These devices are unlinkly to work once HDCP is turned on, most of these sold only work with unencrypted HDMI.
Oh my gosh - you mean I could improve the HD PQ if I switch from composite to HDMI or Component?
. Seriously, I was only responding to bela_blasko2006 's: "In other words component and RCA cable hookups will see a degradation of the HD picture. "
and wondering if DRM could in some way affect S-Video output, which is still a viable way to make a real decent anamorphic SD DVD from an HD source.
How do we know that? Many of Dish's SD channels look much better from an S-Video input than component, so HD reduced to 480 might too.
In fact are we sure it will just "downrezz" to 480i or is it going to inhibit being able to record from component and / or S-Video?
I'd be interested in getting one of these converters before they disappear, do you have a link?
You've also raised a point regarding the legality of circumventing DRM if possible. I would not be surprised to see a significant shift in how people view that and maybe even copying media (for home use) in general.
And finally there are many HDTVs that are less than 4 years old that have only HDCP DVI and a couple components for HD. These tvs would (and should) be around for a while and even if replaced as the main tv, should still be able to serve as a 2nd HDTV in most homes. I suppose it will be a big boon to the manufacturers if more people have to replace them because they will no longer work properly for some HD programs. Seems like everybody makes out here except the consumer.
The HDFury will work:
Permanent HDCP Modification
HDCP compliance for any RGB display
Add a HD(720p)&Full HD(1080p) Digital Input (HDCP/HDMI) to any Analog RGB display !
HDfury is an amazing tiny device designed to outperform any HDCP stripper.
Picture quality through HDfury is the best possible that you can reach:
- Shortest RGB analog link as possible.
- Gold plated materials.
- Ultra Fast IC > 1.65Gbs Bandwidth (over the 1080p limit !)
It is fully compatible (HD&Full HD - 720p/1080p) with any HDMI sources such as HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, PS3, X360 Elite, HDTV cable box, HDTV SAT box or HDMI graphic card.
HDfury solves the BLACK SCREEN issue on Playstation 3 !
Any RGB display hooked up with HDfury can display a 720p or 1080p (HD & Full HD) visual fury !
It transforms any RGB display into a HDCP compliant device.
Compatible with PC monitors, HDTV, Video/Retro projectors, LCD, Plasma
HDfury is an external Add On Card for your RGB display !
Its a Plug&Play answer to any HDMI/HDCP compliance issue !
It will enhance your display's life time and its trade price !
- HDCP rules compliant: no end-user easy access to decrypted analog video.
Once screwed, this module becomes "a part of the display itself".
The HDfury module is DIRECTLY screwed to the back of the RGB display (where SUB-D15 VGA port stand).
I see sells for "HD Fire Fury" similar module.
Two time cheaper :up - is anyone have experience with the second one device ?
Two time cheaper :up - is anyone have experience with the second one device ?
It's been a while and I can't remember the web site but I've also seen it on ebay here: eBay.com.my: HDMI to VGA,PC HD Component Video Format Converter,HDTV (item 330228770998 end time May 16, 2008 23:15:17 MYT) I think this outfit sells this through their internet store and on ebay as well.
The specifications say it's HDCP compliant so it should work in all cases. Regarding legality, if I use this device, I would be using it to view that which I am paying for, nothing else. I don't consider that illegal. I consider DRM to be illegal.
The Fire Fury is a knock-off clone, no guarantees since it's made by an out of country cloner.
So $200 for the Advanced HD Fury kit + $160 for a RGB to component converter and you're pushing $400 - WOW! Like I said, everyone's making out but the poor consumer that bought an HD DVR, ext HDD & HD programming pak because he was led to believe he could archive HD content from his satellite receiver.
Anyone that can't see that these are the first steps to ultimately having to pay residues every time you watch something is either naive or employed in some fashion by the entertainment industry.
Why do you need an RGB to component converter? Why not just use a VGA to component break-out cable?
Good reads about DRM vs your "Fair Use" rights. In fact goggle: DRM and "fair use" rights and you'll find plenty from people that ARE concerned about where this is heading.
Digital Rights Management and the Secret War Against Your Fair Use Rights. | saschameinrath.com
Fair Use and DRM
Is it possible to design non-defective DRM? - Creative Commons
Digital Rights Management and the Secret War Against Your Fair Use Rights. | saschameinrath.com
Fair Use and DRM
Is it possible to design non-defective DRM? - Creative Commons
Good articles. I encourage everyone to support the eff Electronic Frontier Foundation | Defending Freedom in the Digital World and petition them to litigate.
Something else I find interesting. While DirecTV is apparently dong this on all of their PPV, Dish seems to only be doing this on certain ones. As far as I've been told, only the studios that are demanding it. That's something at least.
That's a good point and important too. If Dish is actually going to resist DRM (I'd like to see more evidence of it) it needs to be made note of along with pointing the finger at the studios that are "insisting" on it.
Competition & education is the only way we're going to fight this. If producers start to see a direct correlation between ratings and restrictions, they will be forced to think twice. Producers have to gather capital somewhere and a big chunk comes from home video rights. Given the risky nature of the entertainment business, investors are going to avoid unnecessary gambles.
