DISH vs 4DTV

[da_nah]

I'm reallllly looking hard at getting off of TimeWarner's
huge fees. I'm a HD digital lover and I'm looking for some HD content. I've been doing some heavy research and I'm finding that the DISH prices for what I want is considerably more expensive that I thought. I'm considering CPAN 4DTV because when I recently purchased my house it has a 10 or 12ft CPAN antenna on the roof. I don't have a receiver for either so if I go CPAN I'll spend quite a bit for initial equipment..

Ultimately my needs are slim
Channels I must have: Comedy Central, Spike, TLC, Discovery, History, HGTV, SciFi, USA, CourtTV, CNN or Bloomberg, and whatever HD channels I can get (the Voom stuff looks fun), a few others would be nice but I don't watch a lot (animal planet, DIY, G4, FX)
Also ABC/CBS/NBC in HD is a must - gotta have my HD CSI

What I'm considering
DISH Consideration ~$1000 for year 1 ~$800/after (not counting upgrades)
DISH Bronze, 1 HD basic, 1 Vip622 (dual, DVR for pip)
after 10month $40 incentive plan its ~$60/mth with $249 lease fee. I'm assuming I don't get the $199 from the Vip622 back when I turn it back in. What's the deal with the fee anyway? Any deals coming down the road that I should wait for?.

CPAN/4DTV ~$1100 for year 1 and about $300/after (not counting upgrades)
4DTV DSR-922 ~$400 new ~$250 used ( or other haven't researched these tuners much ). ~$100 for a good HD local Antenna and ~$300 for the HD converter. Ala-carte pricing for all the stations I was looking at was relatively small maybe 240/yr more if I bought into some packages with HD content. I'm also not sure how HD 4DTV really is compared to DISH 420p? 1080i? 720p? 1080p?

More hardware costs upfront for CPAN/4DTV and a lot more DIY. Also I'm not sure how quick and easy it has become to switch back and forth between satellites. My wife is very worried that she'll have to wait 10 seconds or so for the dish to find another satellite. While trying to switch channels. Also she gets frustrated easy so if the system is not simple or somewhat intuitive it could be bad.

Given your views on my situation, what hardware would you suggest? What programming might fit my needs? The end result I'm hoping for is Great Quality TV and a price I can live with. If I go DISH I want the best deal for the best quality. If I go 4DTV/CPAN I need best reasonable EQ to keep it easy to use and quick to change channels, with inexpensive monthly.

I think that's everything - I hope it's not overwhelming. I'm hoping to make my switch before the end of Dec. $100/mth for cable with schetchy reception is outrageous on TWarner.

Can anyone enlighten me?
Thanks in advance
Da_Nah

 

[tdti1]

I would go 4dtv, thing is for HD you will need a HDD 200, the 4dtv makes it easy to use, there are some people that just hate to wait 3-15 seconds or more depending what satellite you are going to.

4dtv HD has the best picture quality and the SD master feeds make mini dish look like crap.

You mite want to see if the old motor on the dish moves, if you can find out if you have a C-band or c/ku-band feed that would be good, because you will need c/ku to get the most out of the system, 4dtv is easy to use for most people, a la carte is slowly going away and many channels will be in packages when they go digital.

You can look at the C-band section in the forum and ask questions there, you can also slave a dvb receiver to the 4dtv but this would be to add extra programming, and I am pretty sure your wife would not get into using the slaved receiver don't worry though she can just use the 4dtv and you can play with both when she is not around lol.

Dish net is easy to use, can be hooked up to many tv's and all can watch something else, costs more for programming, and picture quality is not to good.

Oh if you do get 4dtv you can get a VCII+ board for analog, not sure if you would want to though since most analog is going away, espn does not want to offer there service to 4dtv after the analog channels leave so keep that in mind.

Since the dish is there already, it would be a good idea to put it to use, make sure the dish really is over 8.5' because if it is smaller you may have issues.

These are the two main programming providers:
http://www.programming-center.net/
http://www.callnps.com/

 

[da_nah]

Given my newness to 4DTV/CPAN what kind of timeframe am I looking at from hardware purchase to working system? I know the motor for the Dish worked 2 yrs ago when I bought the house, the previous owner used it every day. How much DIY (do it yourself) am I looking at? Cables exists but are not located in the right places in my house, so that will be a little bit of work. I can also just relocate the TWarner cable feed ( where they like cavemen drilled a hole through my 1938 hardwood floors ). I'm very technically inclined (build my own computers, etc...) so none of this work scares me but I don't want to get 10 hrs into it and find I'm missing crutial pieces.

Also.. for DISH how much better is the Vip622 compared to any free HD DVR I might get? Would I be better served to get DISH (no contract) now with free hardware and slowly piece togeather the CPAN?

I'll try to locate the model number and maybe a pic on my dish/motor. I'd sure like to know what bands ku/?? I can pick up.

Anyone out there a hardware buff want to let me in on what hardware I should aspire to?

 

[da_nah]

anyone know of or written "a find your package" program where I can select the channels I want and it tells me the best package I should pick?

 

[dfergie]

to SatelliteGuys...Here are Packages from NPS for C-Band... have you checked out the C-Band Faq's? The ViP 622 is a very good dvr, C-Band offers better PQ but E* offers alot of HD...

 

[Todd Humphrey]

The 4DTV will offer superior image quality over any DBS system. However, access to programming is the main reason 4DTV is dying. There is also the problem with finding someone to set your dish up and maintain it. Regardless of what you hear, you will need someone who knows how to track a dish, select the proper actuator and know how to program the receiver. You might be able to program the receiver, but getting the dish setup correctly is far more entailed then many think. There is also the issue of whether or not you dish is any good and if it will work for both c & Ku band. Ku-band is not necessary, but would increase your access to programming.
Looking at your required programming list I doubt you can even receive all that on 4DTV. EVERY 4DTV customer I have (about 50 left) also have either DTV or Dish.

Locate a Dealer or Professional Technician

 

[Kb Cool]

Check this out. http://www.skyvision.com/programming/digital.html
It will give you an Idea of what you can get on 4DTV basic channel side for $25 a month.
I myself don't think its a bad idea to have both DISH and 4DTV together. As a matter of fact I get all my premium movie channels off of 4DTV because of the quality and quanity of them. (way more than DISH is gonna give ya)
On the other hand. I also have DISH for national HD channels because they have the most of them. So, IMO nothing beats having both DISH and 4DTV. And if anybody says anything different. Their Lying

 

[da_nah]

How many free channels exist, i.e. just by getting the receiver and hooking it up. what kind of channel lineup will I get w/o subscriptions.

Thx
Da_Nah

 

[tdti1]

How many free channels exist, i.e. just by getting the receiver and hooking it up. what kind of channel lineup will I get w/o subscriptions.

Thx
Da_Nah

There are many dvb free to air channels, there are also a few DCII free channels, you will not get any movie channels or ppv with free to air, you will most probably find a few channels that will interest you.

I have had a big dish for over 20 years, I tried all the small dishes but dumped them, I sub to the movie channels on the 4dtv, and use dvb for other services and just to play around with, I do sub to other services on the 4dtv sometimes.

 

[da_nah]

Got up on the roof (nice mounting on the side of the house mounted to a support beam - prev owner was an architect).
I checked out my dish Unimesh (only name I could find) 10' dish with a pro brand international hydraulic? actuator arm. Looks like the TV antenna is just a normal antenna, so I'll probably spring for a HD local antenna.

 

[dfergie]

Try that antenna first before spending the money on another antenna

 

[navychop]

Are you saying he can get all his "must have" programs, maybe including Voom, via 4DTV?

 

[charper1]

GLooks like the TV antenna is just a normal antenna, so I'll probably spring for a HD local antenna.

I concur with Dferg; there is no such thing as a "HD antenna". Most affiliates broadcast their digital signal on plain 'ole UHF; and those that don't, use plain 'ole VHF. So as you can see a "normal antenna" is all you need, but that being said, you will need a quality antenna mounted / aimed correctly for your location's needs.

 

[dfergie]

Are you saying he can get all his "must have" programs, maybe including Voom, via 4DTV?

No V* only HBOHD, SHOHD and StarzHD east and west, Discovery HD, wealthHD and I think one other (I have the equipment but have not hooked up yet )

 

[tdti1]

Are you saying he can get all his "must have" programs, maybe including Voom, via 4DTV?

Well he will not get the Voom channels but he will get the following:
Showtime HDTV West
HBO HDTV East
HBO HDTV West
Discovery HD Theater
Starz HDTV East
Starz HDTV West

Wealth TV HD
PBS HD

And we are waiting for NFL HD it is mapped but we can't sub to it yet.

He will also be able to get a dvb HD receiver made for the North American market sometime next year, Pansat, Coolsat and I think Neusat claim to be coming out with one shortly, so basically with the OTA anntena and the big dish he will have way to much programming to watch

 

[dfergie]

Thanks, I was thinking PBSHD but wasn't sure...

 

[Todd Humphrey]

There is not such thing as an HD TV antenna. It is all marketing hype. There is only VHF and UHF. Most HDTV is broadcasted on UHF until they drop the analog VHF transmissions, then those UHF channels will drop soon after. I have seen some of these Terk antennas sell for over $200 and any $50 UHF yagi antenna with a decent holland amp would have been better.

Don't waste your money on some over priced fancy HDTV antenna. They are just UHF dipoles with a built in amp. Any decent UHF antenna will work and good amps are relatively cheap. Find a local technician who can help you select the right size, placement and to figure if you need a UHF, or a VHF/UHF Combo antenna. The direction of the transmitters from your house will also determine if you need a rotor.

 

[da_nah]

I appreciate all your help.
My next step is really determining what all I'll need. Maybe a rotor for the TV antenna, Control to turn the big dish (something to work with the pro brand actuator arm) a 4DTV receiver and a digital converter.

I'm probably going to go E* for the short term and start doing this as I get time. By the time my short term incentive wears off hopefully I'll be ready to just drop it. Eventually it'll all be on the internet anyway :}

Anyone with an opinion please supply a grocery list of hardward I'll want, cause I know you all have opinions on what's best for the value.

 

[tdti1]

I appreciate all your help.
My next step is really determining what all I'll need. Maybe a rotor for the TV antenna, Control to turn the big dish (something to work with the pro brand actuator arm) a 4DTV receiver and a digital converter.

The 4dtv dsr 922 (recomended) will control the dish, if the dish moves then basically all you need is the 4dtv, grab it hook it up sub to a few channels and then you can start getting stuff for hd and c/ku if you don't have that already, and a dvb receiver.

There are no contracts with 4dtv, so you can grab it see if you like it, if not then you can sell the 4dtv easy, and go to mini dish, I am sure you will like it though.