Dishnetwork blasting its Contractors

[mleland]

When you are offered a job, you should know what its going to take to complete your tasks. If you don't think the pay is sufficient, then don't take the job. The last thing you should do is do crappy work because you don't think you are compensated correctly.

I'm surprised some of you actually have jobs with attitudes like this. This is the type of comments you hear coming from workers at Mcdonalds.

Redwing hit this right on the head. I used to work for a DNSC in CA. I quit about 1.5 years ago when DISH started to cut the pay. I understand that now a job I used to get 100$ for pays about 50-60$. Lets see.... Will everyone else take a pay cut of 30-40% in thier job and still do the same work at the same level and have a good attitude about it? When this came down I made the right choice and quit.

Yes alot of techs have the same kind of attitudes as those at McD's since in some cases you can make more money there then you can at DISH. The area I used to work in I was lucky to get 3 jobs completed to the 100% level in a 12hour day. I had ALOT of pole mounts and ALOT of customers that really wanted dish but would nix the only location where I could get signal due to trees. The routes i would drive really sucked. My worst day was 2 trouble calls and a 1rcvr install. For those 3 jobs I drove over 300 miles in one day. The best part was the install job wasn't home and I was there on time. So that day paid me about 40$. I could have done much better flipping burgers at In-N-Out for 10$\hr.

 

[Satellite_Guru_X]

Latest tally of chargebacks...

{11} this month

{6} Techs total minus monies

{2} of {11} scored 96%
Q.C comments: Dish installed near trees. Signal ok but possible signal loss future.
Total CB on both jobs, over $85 each.

{1} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: six lag bolts used. One not pass torc test.
Total CB over $55.

{3} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: silicone used to fill holes. No bushings.
Total CB each over $75.

{2} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: cable not routed in mast properly. cable on outside of mast.
Total CB each over $100.

{1} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: loose fittings. several fittings not pass torc test.
Total CB over $55.

{2} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: mast not level. mast not evenly placed and ground strap not galvanized.
Total CB each over $75.

Some were reversed:

Like some lag bolts crooked
Dish mounted to low
Old dish used

Just my 30 cents

 

[Jared Twomey]

{11} this month

{6} Techs total minus monies

{2} of {11} scored 96%
Q.C comments: Dish installed near trees. Signal ok but possible signal loss future.
Total CB on both jobs, over $85 each.

{1} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: six lag bolts used. One not pass torc test.
Total CB over $55.

{3} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: silicone used to fill holes. No bushings.
Total CB each over $75.

{2} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: cable not routed in mast properly. cable on outside of mast.
Total CB each over $100.

{1} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: loose fittings. several fittings not pass torc test.
Total CB over $55.

{2} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: mast not level. mast not evenly placed and ground strap not galvanized.
Total CB each over $75.

Some were reversed:

Like some lag bolts crooked
Dish mounted to low
Old dish used

Just my 30 cents

ok, yeah, those are some bs chargebacks. Who is doing the QC's and doing the chargebacks? Dish, or your company? if it is your company then I would be raising hell cause some of those are just rediculous.

 

[chadzx11]

I could be wrong, but I *think* the rationale for failing that particular job was due to the cable running, unprotected, thru aluminum siding. Most trailers/modular homes have that sort of siding.

I'll be honest, almost all (98 percent or so) of the installs I do on a trailer DO come thru the floor. It's just a pain in the butt to run lines out the outside wall when I could just simply hide the wires and have everything underneath and hidden behind skirting.

The guy he was responding to got failed for not putting on the bushing at the underpinning. He never said he did a wall penetration. He drilled through the part you have to take off to get to the crawl space.

 

[Phils]

I'm NOT an installer.

And thanks to this thread, I don't think I want to BE an installer. 300 miles of driving and making $40! And I'm guessing that is before taxes. mleland -- I hope you've had some VERY good days to make up for the others. At least a decent meal at the Copper Kettle.... their homemade corned beef hash is about the best!

My other guess is that the crappy installers don't spend time reading these boards. If they don't care professionally there's no reason for them to 'waste' time reading and learning here.

Phil

 

[webbydude]

The guy he was responding to got failed for not putting on the bushing at the underpinning. He never said he did a wall penetration. He drilled through the part you have to take off to get to the crawl space.

Ah. My bad. LOL

I stand corrected. And yeah...that's a total BS chargeback. I would fight that tooth and nail

 

[Satellite_Guru_X]

Birddoggy its D-Net doing this

Its incredible Birddoggy, Im a believer of treat your fellow man fairly and honestly. But this is utterly BS as you remarked.

Yes some companies our joining in on the merry-go-round of instant cash flow drained from hard working Techs with families to feed and bills to pay.
D-Net admins are having a party with all this extra cash coming in.

What really gets my shorts all up in a bunch is the fact that most Techs and companies haven't signed anything agreeing to this BS. Word of mouth is all we have as evidence. I think Al Capone is alive and well as the CEO of D-Net.

Most of the Techs in Pac-States and Central-States thinking about going of strike, But because we need the money we have to put up with this.

Next month I hear D-Net will begin checking all service and trouble calls for Chargebacks. Make sure you ground it and bring it up to code.


Just my 75 cents

 

[ScottChez]

You get what you pay for.

If Dish were to pay an installer say $200 for an install and if anything minor is wrong, then yes FULL CHARGE BACK.

But these days with the cut in installer rates down below $100, I say if the dish works, NO CHARGE back unless something is not right with the install and its against City codes.

If the Dish does not work 30 days later due to Signal strength up to 1 year later later because the bolts are not tighten, then 25% charge back 50% if its with in 30 days.

Some of the charge backs in the post above are crazy for what they are NOT paying the installers.


If I had known what they are not getting paid, I would of left a bigger tip.

 

[dishcomm]

Your kidding right? Ok look at it like this.

Over the time that I worked as an inhouse tech I had rolled on roughly 100 jobs that I was the 10th + tech to come out on because the system was not working as it should. In the worst case I had to do a total reinstall on about 3 of these while the majority were a few things such as replacing a few things but there were enough in there that it was something so simple as loose connections.

The majority of calls I went on were due to someone not doing the job right the first, second, or third time if not more while the rest were a mix of customer caused, equipment failure, act of god or something that a wild/domesticated animal did to the sytem. Regardless though its the majority thats at issue and its not just Dish that is spending way to much on repeat service calls its all of the dbs and cable providers ( I've been with charter since november and have had 16 service calls to fix the same issue, 7 missed calls, 3 set top boxes replaced, 5 splitters replaced, rg59 replaced with rg6, telephone system reinstalled twice ) because there are to many techs that dont care and there are to many companies that pay to little and put to high of a demand for work to be completed on the techs ( cable techs average 9 - 15 jobs a day ).

The reasons for bad jobs are varied but generaly can fall into simple categories and can be easily fixed by the industry and the techs themselves but the fix rests mostly on the shoulders of the companies themselves to stop pushing for quantity and instead focus on quality.

The business is being destroyed by insatll co's that care only about the number of jobs they can get doen in a day..Not a work day....In 18 hrs...I have spoken to techs that leave thier office after 9 am with 5 installs and two or three service calls..Fortunately our company does not operate this way. Of course most of the time half those jobs get rescheduled. I know this because our company gets jobs origiannly assigend to other firms that can't seem to get the jobs done...The guys are forced to substandard work. The customers complain that the techs always seem to be in a hurry..Granted, some customers are jerks in that they think their job is the only one the tech has a that day..
Anyway, there are many factors that are contributing to the maliase which seems to be overtaking this business. Dish is underpaying for Dish 1000 plus upgrades..They know it. These jobs are essentially full installs but pay les than half of one..Yet we use almost as much in time and materials to complete the jobs...I am just getting tired of the BS we put up with from Dish..If I stay in this business it will be only with a company that makes most of it's income through retail sales. This DNS contracting stuff sucks...

 

[dishcomm]

That sounds like rocking r. No sticker, no pay. No pictures, no pay.

Actually yes..But this is Custom Communications..They got the idea from Rockin R.....I was having a chat with my supe today about this...He used to run his own business and knows a thing or two about labor law..He told me that Custom can be sued and they would lose big. Thing is no one is willing to stand up to these people. This is what is happening to this busines. These install firms are killing the satellite bus. E* and D* are uncaring becuase as long as they get the new connects ,they don't care..Quality is really poor out there...

 

[dishcomm]

I think its a good idea that should have been done a long time ago when sub contractors were charging customers up to $2,000 for a dual Echostar 2700 receiver install. The inhouse techs get job checked about 3 to 1 when it comes to the subs and retailers and they only get 3 strikes allowable in a years time, hopefully that will be the case with the subs now if its not.

The only jobs that I have ever come across that were almost always failable jobs have always been apartment installs because its rare to find an NEC aproved ground source at any apartment but during my time working for dish at the Wixom Michigan office and then the Ann Arbor Michigan office I was directed more than once to go ahead and do the install without the grounding at the direction of the installation manager and the now unemployed general manager.

I make no bones about it when it comes to how I feel about the work that the vast majority of sub contractors due thats best described as sh*t. I fixed more hack work done by several subs and a couple of retailers than I ever had that was done by anyone that I worked with. My favorite sub contractor quote that says volumes,

" I usually make about $1,800 a week working 5 days. Really? how many jobs a day do you do then? I usually do about 8 to 10 and Im home by dinner time."

Ten yrs ago it was common for a customer to pay big bucks for an install. That was what the market bore. Now E* and D* have buried the installers by offering virtually everything "free"..DNS prohibits extra fees for pole mounts, wall fishes and some custom work..Customers refuse to pay for service work when they themsleves are the cause of the visit..
Anyway, sh*t work comes from both camps..The DNS techs in this area are grossly underpaid.. They start at $11hr . DNS' tech qualifications are if they have a pulse they get hired..Because of the low pay, they get what they pay for..Crappy work and high employee turnover. Contactors are not innocent by any stretch..Some of these firms literally steal form their employees with unconscionable chargebacks. IMPO this breeds contempt for the employer and the result is crappy work..

 

[dishcomm]

I could be wrong, but I *think* the rationale for failing that particular job was due to the cable running, unprotected, thru aluminum siding. Most trailers/modular homes have that sort of siding.

I'll be honest, almost all (98 percent or so) of the installs I do on a trailer DO come thru the floor. It's just a pain in the butt to run lines out the outside wall when I could just simply hide the wires and have everything underneath and hidden behind skirting.

I prefer to do floor pens in trailers but quite often the area under the trailers is so nasty, no one in their right mind would go underneath. Neither will I.
The thing that raised an eyebrow with me is the fact that the tech got dinged for the penetration in the trailer "skirt"..That is ridiculous...

 

[webbydude]

I prefer to do floor pens in trailers but quite often the area under the trailers is so nasty, no one in their right mind would go underneath. Neither will I.
The thing that raised an eyebrow with me is the fact that the tech got dinged for the penetration in the trailer "skirt"..That is ridiculous...

No kidding! LOL

Sounds like that QC guy needs to take a few hits of Pamprin or Midol.

And what the hell is up with that back-charge for NOT using the mast to route the cable? I usually get yelled at FOR routing my cable inside a mast. I suppose it does get to be problematic when you have a service call or upgrade...and you have to pull the cable through. Only to find a yellow jacket nest has been built around the cable lines inside said mast.

 

[dishcomm]

{11} this month

{6} Techs total minus monies

{2} of {11} scored 96%
Q.C comments: Dish installed near trees. Signal ok but possible signal loss future.
Total CB on both jobs, over $85 each.

{1} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: six lag bolts used. One not pass torc test.
Total CB over $55.

{3} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: silicone used to fill holes. No bushings.
Total CB each over $75.

{2} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: cable not routed in mast properly. cable on outside of mast.
Total CB each over $100.

{1} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: loose fittings. several fittings not pass torc test.
Total CB over $55.

{2} of {11} scored 98%
Q.C comments: mast not level. mast not evenly placed and ground strap not galvanized.
Total CB each over $75.

Some were reversed:

Like some lag bolts crooked
Dish mounted to low
Old dish used

Just my 30 cents

These people( the company) are criminals and should be treated as such...I bet not one of the charge backs were authenticated. Nor was the tech consulted or given a chance to correct these "grave" transgressions..
If I were the victim of these unconsionable chargebacks, It would be a cold July day in Phoenix before I would let it go...

 

[Todd Humphrey]

Who ever decided that bushings were to be used outdoors is complete moron. Bushings have cause more problems then anyone can imagine. If you drill a 5/8 hole and run the cable into that hole, The cable can sit flat against the building up to the point that it enters the hole. It then enters the hole at a slight angle. This keeps the cable flush with the wall and free of being pinched.
A cable must enter a bushing straight on. This requires a small loop that brings the cable away from the siding. If something is laid against the side of the wall that pushing the cable flat, the cable WILL be pinched.

Bushings do nothing but highlight the POE. They do not provide a bit of water intrusion protection, unless you also seal the bushing with sealant. 9 out ten 10 times if you go back a few weeks later, you will find the sealant has separated away from the bushing.

The bushing is no paintable. When the customer paints their home, they are left with a painted cable, siding and dot on the side of their home.

White bushing are NOT always UV resistant. They will crack under direct sun light.

Bushings were NEVER designed for exterior use. It was only after some inexperienced goof ball somewhere thought they should be used outdoors that every other inexperienced manager follow the same practice. The manufacturers then started saying they were good for exterior use.

This is a prime example of some procedure being developed based on ignorance, and catching on. Now we have thousands of installers who think Bushing are proper for outdoor use. I will be addressing this issue on www.dbsinstall.com later this week, complete with pictures.

The only place bushing have a place outdoors is through metal and maybe vinyl siding to protect the cable from sharp edges. When used on wood they serve NO valid function.

 

[dishcomm]

Who ever decided that bushings were to be used outdoors is complete moron. Bushings have cause more problems then anyone can imagine. If you drill a 5/8 hole and run the cable into that hole, The cable can sit flat against the building up to the point that it enters the hole. It then enters the hole at a slight angle. This keeps the cable flush with the wall and free of being pinched.
A cable must enter a bushing straight on. This requires a small loop that brings the cable away from the siding. If something is laid against the side of the wall that pushing the cable flat, the cable WILL be pinched.

Bushings do nothing but highlight the POE. They do not provide a bit of water intrusion protection, unless you also seal the bushing with sealant. 9 out ten 10 times if you go back a few weeks later, you will find the sealant has separated away from the bushing.

The bushing is no paintable. When the customer paints their home, they are left with a painted cable, siding and dot on the side of their home.

White bushing are NOT always UV resistant. They will crack under direct sun light.

Bushings were NEVER designed for exterior use. It was only after some inexperienced goof ball somewhere thought they should be used outdoors that every other inexperienced manager follow the same practice. The manufacturers then started saying they were good for exterior use.

This is a prime example of some procedure being developed based on ignorance, and catching on. Now we have thousands of installers who think Bushing are proper for outdoor use. I will be addressing this issue on www.dbsinstall.com later this week, complete with pictures.

The only place bushing have a place outdoors is through metal and maybe vinyl siding to protect the cable from sharp edges. When used on wood they serve NO valid function.

I viewed the use of bushings in outside wall pens as unecessary and over kill. They did NOTHIING as to prevent water or pest intrusion..I started in this business as a Primestar tech..That company had rules for it's rules..All kinds of stupid stuff..One of those dopey rules was the mandatory use of bushings on exterior wall pens. I used them after my P*days as a matter of habit..However when I started havingot buy them myself , I stopped using them..To my knowledge E* does not require their use. If E* does ,it's news to me..To my knowldedge NO ONE I work with uses these bushings. And non of us have veer been directed by E* to use them.
At the end of the day, it appears to mne thast thse compan9ies that use these rules to issue chargebacks are simply making up the rules as they go because they do not want to pay their techs the money the techs have earned..Why the compnaies do this is a mystery. Seems to me that eventually the word gets out that company "A" is ripping off their techs, no one but the dreggs of society will work for that contractor. There are two contratcors in this area that many of uswil never work with.
What I really find amazing is that E* isn't doing anything to boot these a**holes off their list of approved contractors..These companies need to be run out of thr business..Ulitimately these companies need to be brought up on charges of theft. Esentially that is what is occurring. These companies are literally stealing from their workers.

 

[webbydude]

I've hinted at this in an earlier post, but for the sake of re-emphasis...here it is again.

I only use bushings only during aluminum siding installs OR whenever I'm running a cable from one interior room to another. I think it makes the POE cleaner looking when you have a cable going thru baseboards and use it to "seal" up the hole.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Van]

The business is being destroyed by insatll co's that care only about the number of jobs they can get doen in a day..Not a work day....In 18 hrs...I have spoken to techs that leave thier office after 9 am with 5 installs and two or three service calls..Fortunately our company does not operate this way. Of course most of the time half those jobs get rescheduled. I know this because our company gets jobs origiannly assigend to other firms that can't seem to get the jobs done...The guys are forced to substandard work. The customers complain that the techs always seem to be in a hurry..Granted, some customers are jerks in that they think their job is the only one the tech has a that day..
Anyway, there are many factors that are contributing to the maliase which seems to be overtaking this business. Dish is underpaying for Dish 1000 plus upgrades..They know it. These jobs are essentially full installs but pay les than half of one..Yet we use almost as much in time and materials to complete the jobs...I am just getting tired of the BS we put up with from Dish..If I stay in this business it will be only with a company that makes most of it's income through retail sales. This DNS contracting stuff sucks...

Oh yea I couldnt agrea more that alot does rest on the companies starting at the very top and sometimes I really wonder if Charlie knows what his yes men are really doing or not. I know that Charlie is not a favorite of many people but if you look at how the company is now as compared to when I first started with them in 00 you would see that back then the installers were treated much better if not payed as well as they are now and the workload was half to 2/3 less of what it is now.

Ten yrs ago it was common for a customer to pay big bucks for an install. That was what the market bore. Now E* and D* have buried the installers by offering virtually everything "free"..DNS prohibits extra fees for pole mounts, wall fishes and some custom work..Customers refuse to pay for service work when they themsleves are the cause of the visit..
Anyway, sh*t work comes from both camps..The DNS techs in this area are grossly underpaid.. They start at $11hr . DNS' tech qualifications are if they have a pulse they get hired..Because of the low pay, they get what they pay for..Crappy work and high employee turnover. Contactors are not innocent by any stretch..Some of these firms literally steal form their employees with unconscionable chargebacks. IMPO this breeds contempt for the employer and the result is crappy work..

Hmmm, if any dish dnsc is still paying a starting wage of $11 an hour then they are pulling some fast ones over the techs, the starting wage when I left had been bumped up from $10.50 to $12.50 wich puts it right inline with all of the cable companies in the area.

As much as I dont like what is going on it is still a company that I would work for directly as the insurance was much better than what I have now and the pay rate is better and I had the freedom of not being stuck in some cubicle or building like I am now.

On the note of bushings.

Ok I am a bit torn on these things, they do tend to clean up the visual aspects of the cable running in and do protect the casing from damage related to movement on aluminum siding but they absolutely do not stop water from coming in wich is why you should always add a dab of silicone to the coax prior to pushing in the last inch or so and putting another dab under the cap of the bushing prior to pushing it in to.

 

[rich88]

Oh yea I couldnt agrea more that alot does rest on the companies starting at the very top and sometimes I really wonder if Charlie knows what his yes men are really doing or not. I know that Charlie is not a favorite of many people but if you look at how the company is now as compared to when I first started with them in 00 you would see that back then the installers were treated much better if not payed as well as they are now and the workload was half to 2/3 less of what it is now.


Hmmm, if any dish dnsc is still paying a starting wage of $11 an hour then they are pulling some fast ones over the techs, the starting wage when I left had been bumped up from $10.50 to $12.50 wich puts it right inline with all of the cable companies in the area.

As much as I dont like what is going on it is still a company that I would work for directly as the insurance was much better than what I have now and the pay rate is better and I had the freedom of not being stuck in some cubicle or building like I am now.

On the note of bushings.

Ok I am a bit torn on these things, they do tend to clean up the visual aspects of the cable running in and do protect the casing from damage related to movement on aluminum siding but they absolutely do not stop water from coming in wich is why you should always add a dab of silicone to the coax prior to pushing in the last inch or so and putting another dab under the cap of the bushing prior to pushing it in to.

Well, as of March 1st of this year, they screwed-us BIG TIME with our health insurance.

We no longer have copays on doctor visits and prescriptions and we have to reach a $2500 deductible for single and a $5000 deductible for single +1 or family.


All I keep hearing from our Senior Techs is Dish is screwing itself in the long run. The EXPERIENCED and GOOD techs are going to leave and then Dish will end up having the majority of its NEW CONNECTS being installed by inexperienced or rookie Techs or crappy techs who can't get a job anywhere else with the same pay.

With the new QAS standard, Techs are going to "no line-of-sight" anything that doesn't have have 4 degrees clearance of both sides. Thus New Connects will drop. Funny, when I first started out 18 months ago, Dish wanted New Connects put in no matter what. If we could shoot it thru a gap between two trees that was just barely big enough ( and most definitely didn't have the 4 to 5 degrees clearance), then do it and get it done.

 

[dishcomm]

I've hinted at this in an earlier post, but for the sake of re-emphasis...here it is again.

I only use bushings only during aluminum siding installs OR whenever I'm running a cable from one interior room to another. I think it makes the POE cleaner looking when you have a cable going thru baseboards and use it to "seal" up the hole.

Just my 2 cents worth.

'
I also use them from room to room runs..Cuts back on the use of more expensive wall plates when the penetrations are in closets, in baseboards or behind pieces of furniture that the cusomer intends to not move....In these appilications I view the use of bushings as completely acceptable..