Do I have to take a refurbished tuner?

[ChrisCoop]

Hi,

My 322 has been acting up quite a bit lately. It reboots on its own at random times and often when I turn on the TVs connected to it, it has the "acquiring signal" message that just sits at zero of five forever and requires a reboot to actually get the signal back. I know it's a problem with the box because we also have a 522 that never reboots on its own and never needs to "acquire signal" other than when it updates once a day.

Anyway, I called Dish to complain - twice - and they finally admitted there was a problem with the box and agreed to send me a new one. But it turns out they sent me a refurbished 322 (it says so right on the box). This troubles me - on a few different levels:

• First, it's probably refurbished because some other poor sap was having problems with it and he sent it back. So it's probably a problem unit to start with. What assurances do I have that it was ever fixed? Like when I send mine back, I imagine they'll test it, and if they can't replicate the bug, they'll probably just box it up and send it along to the next guy (how many of these old junkers are out there in circulation - do they just keep recycling them? ).

• Second, I know that I didn't buy the unit (it's rented under the DHA plan) but don't I still have a right to be made whole? If I send them back my new unit (it's less than a month old) shouldn't I get a new unit in return? I just signed up for Dish and got a new 322 less than a month ago, so why would I now trade it in for a used unit?

• Third, some might say the easy answer is to just take the used unit and if that one develops a problem, call and send it back too. But my problem with that is that under my service agreement, I get a 90 day warranty (from when I signed up) on shipping fees for defective equipment. After 90 days I have to pay them $15 for the shipping. So while I'm "testing" the new (used) unit the clock is just ticking away. And if the unit is defective down the line (as I think it might be) I may end up having to pay them for the shipping. And that would really just be rubbing salt in the wound for me.

Does anyone have experience with this sort of thing? Do I have to take the used one or can I call and insist on a new one? Thanks.

 

[jerryez]

How do you really know the first unit was not refurbished. I have found that from most manufacturers, a refurbished unit is better than factory new. A technician has sat down and gone thru the unit and manually checked it out. A new unit does not get this degree of individual attention. They are cranked thru an assembly line and plugged in to see if they work and shipped. Not when you return a unit to Dish, I do not know who fixes the unit. Dish, the manufacturer, or a subcontractor.

 

[El_Cu_Guy]

I imagine they'll test it, and if they can't replicate the bug, they'll probably just box it up and send it along to the next guy (how many of these old junkers are out there in circulation - do they just keep recycling them?

For the most part yes. If they can't replicate the bug they might consider it a problem with the line. I have run into this issue. Hot drops are a good way to test it. Since both your 322 and 522 require that you have 2 line running to it you could actually swap them out to see if the problem still occurs. I once had a TV throw garbage back to the receiver and short it out and other cause problems with them. Refurbished basically means that it goes through a QA. Look for some mark or sticker that says QA passed. If you have to send multiple units back don't get down. Eventually, if the rep you talk to is smart and you make mention that this has happened too often they'll send you a new one.

We have gotten work order with comments that read "SAVE CUSTOMER".

If I send them back my new unit (it's less than a month old) shouldn't I get a new unit in return? I just signed up for Dish and got a new 322 less than a month ago, so why would I now trade it in for a used unit?

No because you're leasing the equipment. They're not required to send you new equipment. It's just like a car. You may get a brand new one off the line but if there's a problem they aren't required to lease you a new one. The dealer will likely offer you the same make, model and year but it may have been driven/leased before. Also are you sure the one you got originally is new? Just because it's been in your house for about a month doesn't mean someone didn't have it before you.

I get a 90 day warranty (from when I signed up) on shipping fees for defective equipment. After 90 days I have to pay them $15 for the shipping.

If you have problems with the next unit, opt for the DHP (Digital Home Protection Plan). It's like insurance. If you have anymore problems they'll replace it for free and send you a pre-paid packing slip (UPS likely).

 

[Stargazer]

They do not even have to send a new receiver on one that you have bought after a failure, although they usually do send a new one after you had to have a receiver replaced three times, from what they have told me once, but if they do not make anymore new ones then that would be pretty hard to do. They just do what they want to do.

 

[ChrisCoop]

How do you really know the first unit was not refurbished.

Not that it's relevant, but since you asked: The first unit had that new car smell. The power cord was bundled in that perfect 8 shape that you can never reproduce by hand, and had a pristine twist tie gingerly holding it's pretty little jacket - it was obvious a machine had done it. The little rubber pads on the bottom of the receiver were clean and unmarred. The plastic bag that the unit came in was heat/vacuum sealed and had to be ripped/cut in order to be opened. I was sitting with the installer and we opened the boxes together - and I still have the wrapping materials and ripped bag. And the box didn't say REMANUFACTURED on it like the "new" one does. In contrast, the "new" one has a power cord that was just balled up and squeezed into the bag. And, no twist tie. The rubber pads on the bottom of the unit are obviously dusty/dirty. The bag that the unit is in isn't a heat/vacuum bag, it's a generic plastic bag that's held closed with a thick piece of Scotch tape. As a matter of fact, the box that the "new" one came in isn't even a box for a 322. It's a generic Dish Network box - unlike the original one that had a large 322 sticker printed on the box along with all the talking points/features of the receiver. And the "new" one doesn't have the new car smell. In fact, it has no smell. It's a little dingy and looks like it came straight off the bench.

A technician has sat down and gone thru the unit and manually checked it out.

Are these the same technicians that help develop the bug-ridden software that's causing my problems in the first place? If so, I think I'd rather just have one off the line. And you and I both know that if the bug can't be replicated - and sometimes they're pretty hard to replicate - that the unit will just get the seal of approval.

Since both your 322 and 522 require that you have 2 line running to it you could actually swap them out to see if the problem still occurs.

Thank you for the suggestion. That's a good idea, but I don't believe a problem with the line could cause the unit to reboot randomly or sit forever on 0 of 5 in acquiring signal mode until it's force rebooted and then finds signal right away. This is clearly a software/hardware problem.

Look for some mark or sticker that says QA passed.

There's noting like that on the box, bag, or unit.

They're not required to send you new equipment.

I can appreciate that. They may not be required to, but I still think it's the right thing to do. It seems like you're looking at things from their perspective. Please look at things from the customer's perspective. Again, why would a new customer trade his new box in for a used one? What, to inherit someone else's problem unit and make things easier/more cost-effective for Dish? If the original installer had tried to install a used box that someone else had problems with, I would have refused the install. So why now, a month later, would I trade one problem unit for another?

If you have problems with the next unit, opt for the DHP (Digital Home Protection Plan). It's like insurance.

Surely ye jest. You're suggesting that I give Dish $6 a month for insurance in addition to the rental fees I'm already paying? Just to cover the $15 I might have to pay in the future for shipping of their defective unit back to them? I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. The whole point of renting the receiver is so that if there's a problem (not caused by me, of course) it will be taken care of by Dish. If I wanted to be paying somebody every time there was a problem, I would sign up with DirecTV and own my equipment. A big part of the reason I went with Dish was that I liked the fact that I could rent the receiver and let them take care of it if there was a problem. I didn't think that meant sending me a unit that someone else was having problems with.

although they usually do send a new one after you had to have a receiver replaced three times

There times? By that time I'll definitely be out of the 90 day shipping warranty. So not only will I have to suffer with problem after problem with the receivers, by then I'll be paying them shipping fees. This is fricken ridiculous.

I don't mean to be coming across as a jerk and I do appreciate the responses, but I can't believe no one else sees it as a problem that they're recycling problem units and (eventually) charging the customer for shipping of these problem units. I'm paying Dish $70 a month ($25 more than I was paying Comcast for cable, by the way. Granted, I do get more channels now) and since I am also paying receiver rental fees, I feel they owe me a new, problem-free receiver. Not someone else's unit that was sent back because it wasn't working. I think I'm going to call and demand a new receiver and if I don't get satisfaction I'm just going to cancel and sign up with DirecTV. They only charge $10 a month more for a comparable package and I understand they have ZERO problems with their boxes - unlike Dish that has been nothing but bugs and quirks and problems for the past month with their receiver. This is no way to treat/keep customers.

 

[bcshields]

Digital Home Advantage customers are the only ones to get refurbed equipment, due to the rental factor.

Digital Home Plan customers were the same way, as were Digital Dyn-O-Mite.

So does any reciever, leased or purchased, that breaks under warranty. That's Dish's terms.

90% of the time, the refurb works fine. That other 10%... call back and try another.

 

[Hall]

1) The unit may not be "refurbished" at all, i.e. repaired, but simply a returned (because of service cancellation) model. It may be 100% perfectly functioning. The "refurbished" label may be required by law of some sort denoting simply that it's not "new". Besides the fact that they don't have to give you a new part...

2) Models on most production lines only undergo random quality checks. I doubt they -- not to rule out Dish Network either -- 100% checks on all units. When a part is returned, for whatever reason, it's went over by hand, very thoroughly. As stated above, remanufactured items are often better than otherwise "new" ones because of this.

 

[boba]

First of all your "NEW" unit failed in 30 days how is that better than a remanufactured? Second you are under DHA you have no commitment to DISH Network you can threaten to cancel at any time, if you are smart you will cancel. Third all current DISH receivers are full of BUGS why do you think there are so many posts for DISH versus Directv. Right now the most reliable new DISH receivers are the 311 and the 510 and they aren't problem free.

 

[El_Cu_Guy]

Just a note for people. If you sign up for the DHA go with regular DHA. Stay away from SBC. We just started dealing with Sprint so I'm not sure about their track record as of yet.

Also note: Not all locations will be utlizing these companies. Denver will be using Qwest(?).

If you think it's a pain explaining problems and getting replacements through Dish stay the hell away from Partners (SBC, Sprint, etc.).

 

[El_Cu_Guy]

Just a note for people. If you sign up for the DHA go with regular DHA. Stay away from SBC. We just started dealing with Sprint so I'm not sure about their track record as of yet.

Also note: Not all locations will be utlizing these companies. Denver will be using Qwest(?).

If you think it's a pain explaining problems and getting replacements through Dish stay the hell away from Partners (SBC, Sprint, etc.)

Third all current DISH receivers are full of BUGS why do you think there are so many posts for DISH versus Directv. Right now the most reliable new DISH receivers are the 311 and the 510 and they aren't problem free.

That's one of the reason I've been holding off getting a 721 or 921. Well that and they're freaking expensive. A good practice is to wait atleast 6 months for any major electronic equipment. Let some other poor sap wade through the problems.

 

[Stargazer]

When I had issues with the 501 failing multiple times I told them that the shipping charge would really start to add up and that it was not right for me to have to pay for their mistake. I told them that it would be rediculous to have to pay $15 each time making it $45 for three times it would be replaced and demanded them to not charge me, and I believe I was not charged the second or third time. At first they would not give me a new receiver after the third failure and finally when they would they said that was their policy like nobody told me such things previously in a smart way. That did not make me any happier. Had to talk to Cartright when she worked there just to get the new receiver the third time. Sold the dang thing unopened in the box when received for $175 and never bought another 501.

 

[Claude Greiner]

First of all since your on DHA, its at DISH Networks option to give you new or referbished equipment. After all its covered under a lifetime warranty

Your only dealing with a $150 piece of equipment, and you didn't pay anthing for it so whats the big deal? If it was a $1000 921, yea I would be a little pist off, but chances are on that they would send you a new one because they don't have any referbs available in the system. Its just like everytime I have sent in a 721, they have sent me a new replacement

 

[DSS4Free]

DHA's

OOH, by the way, not all DHA's are the same. If you sign up through a retailer for the DHA, they lock you into a 1 year contract

 

[snathanb]

OOH, by the way, not all DHA's are the same. If you sign up through a retailer for the DHA, they lock you into a 1 year contract

There are some that do, but many who don't.