Does anyone believe their DVR is safe after what Charlie did to VOOM?

This Thread is completely idiotic. Yeah, because Dish cut their loses with Voom, they are also going to shut off everyone's DVR's and effectively ruin their whole company. Yeah, I can see how you can connect the two.
 
If a judge hands down a decision, I believe Dish Network will guillotine us lickety-split.
Fine. Let them. Then all their subscribers will go to DirectTv. I don't know about others, but I agreed to a contract. "You let me lease a 722 DVR, I keep your programming for 24 months." If they gut things so the 722 is no longer a DVR, contract null and void, by their actions. I'll just move on - free and clear. Disabling the DVR functionality would be the best thing they could ever do for customers who want to leave, but feel locking in by a contract. And the customers who hadn't previously thought about leaving would probably start thinking about it pronto.
 
The contracts with Dish aren't dependent on the model of receiver one receives. If they disable the DVR, they simply don't charge you the DVR fee. You'll still receive the same programming as before, which is what you agreed to.
 
Before the VOOM massacre, I could not have cared less about the TIVO lawsuit because I believed Dish Network would always look out for the best interests of their customers. I don't believe that now and will never believe it again. I think Dish Network is perfectly capable of disabling DVR's and not losing sleep over it. All bets are off at this point.

And don't believe it won't happen sooner than later because the case is ongoing, VOOM happened sooner.

Egads.. why can't these folks put their $$ where their mouth is and quit E* and go terrorize the poor folks at D*.. the rest of us can get back to watching some TV instead of checking 10 times a day to see if the sky is truly falling...
 
Guys I know that you are upset about VOOM but your emotions are getting the best of you. It is just TV.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but all newer DVR's do not use the Tivo software. It was just the old DVRs. If there was a mass "panic button" shut down they would simply issue the newer DVRs out to their customers that are affected although there aren't that many from what I recall as there is only 1 model out there affected.
 
duckydan said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but all newer DVR's do not use the Tivo software. It was just the old DVRs. If there was a mass "panic button" shut down they would simply issue the newer DVRs out to their customers that are affected although there aren't that many from what I recall as there is only 1 model out there affected.
I've had my back against a wall so many times for my position that it normally is considered "sky is falling" material. I honestly believe there will be a licensing agreement between TiVo and Echostar/Dish Network. So, the sky is not falling, but it is getting a little cloudy...

From memory, the infringing DVR models were listed as the 501, 508, 510, 721, 921, 942 and 625, and any that are not colorably different than those listed. Dish Network could not update the software in the 721, 921, 942 and HomeZone 1022 (one of the AT&T models). These models cannot be sold nor activated by Dish Network or any of their retailers, as they still use infringing software.

Dish Network sent a letter to their resellers on 18 April. From memory, they told the resellers because DISH/SATS redesigned the software on the 5XX, 625, 622 and 722 and the rest of the AT&T models, they feel they no longer infringe, and will not have to shut-down those DVR's.

The issue is that a copy of the injunction was sent to the resellers along with the letter. If one takes a literal meaning of the injunction, the resellers were supposed to receive a copy of the injunction because the injunction also applies to the resellers, and the court order says to send a copy of the injunction to the "agents". So Dish Network/Echostar took literally at face value what they were supposed to do, and sent the injunction, just as Dish Network/Echostar also stopped selling receivers that were covered by the injunction.

The injunction also stated to shut-down all but 197,208 DVR's that infringed on the software claims on the TiVo Time Warp patent. But Dish Network/Echostar has not complied with that. The assumption is that TiVo will bring this up in their brief to the court on Friday.

One of the main problems is that using the literal directive of the injunction, those receivers are supposed to be off. Even if Dish Network/Echostar has changed the software on these receivers so they no longer infringe, there isn't any proof, yet. In my opinion, that is where the big issue is: the judge may state there should be a finding of fact, if the new software no longer infringes. The problem is that the judge may also state that Dish Network/Echostar is to shut-down those DVR's until the finding of fact is resolved.

That is where the problems start. If TiVo and Dish Network/Echostar cannot find a common ground to get an agreement done, then there will be a problem. You can bet TiVo will ask for the moon when it comes to getting royalties, when Dish Network/Echostar may be faced with shutting down some subscribers. If I were TiVo, I'd ask for a royalty agreement for ALL DVR's, including the newer ones, which may or may not infringe. And Dish Network/Echostar, as everyone knows here, negotiates contracts like lions negotiate with wildebeests. They certainly aren't afraid to pull the plug on their subscribers.

If the courts force Dish Network to comply with the injunction, TiVo will win and quite a few Dish Network subscribers and Dish Network themselves will lose.
 
Egads.. why can't these folks put their $$ where their mouth is and quit E* and go terrorize the poor folks at D*.. the rest of us can get back to watching some TV instead of checking 10 times a day to see if the sky is truly falling...

I’m sorry so many people found this thread so offensive, I was just voicing an opinion about my faith in Dish Network at this time and how it relates to some of the other issues. I probably shouldn’t have done it. I don’t think it is fair, however, for people to suggest that everyone with a negative opinion of Dish Network should cancel their subscriptions and go away. If threads like this make you so angry, just read the threads you like and stay away from the others, it is your choice to click on each link. Better yet, start an “everything is great at Dish Network” thread of your own. I’m not going to come attack it like you are doing here.
 
This Thread is completely idiotic. Yeah, because Dish cut their loses with Voom, they are also going to shut off everyone's DVR's and effectively ruin their whole company. Yeah, I can see how you can connect the two.

I don’t believe they will shut the DVR’s off entirely either, but I could see them stripping away DVR features until they reach a level of compliance with whatever court order may be issued leaving us with half the DVR we had before. I want Dish Network to reach a settlement so we keep all the features of the DVR, but I no longer believe that will be the case.

Feel free to resume flaming this thread for idiocy, thanks.
 
It would almost be good for Dish and the customer if they junked all of the mpeg-2 DVRs. The people that upgraded to the Vip series would finally be able to reap the full benefits of Mpeg4 because we wouldn't have anyone with OBSOLETE hardware holding us back, and Dish could really begin a full transition to mpeg4.

The customer would have access to all of the new channels, more disc space, better boxes. The 622 is one of the best CE devices that I have used, certainly miles ahead of the garbage motorola and scientific atlanta boxes. I laugh at my friends that use time warner's sad excuse for a DVR, SD menus and guides are so cool. I really love it when the slow UI can't keep up.

Who knows, but you might actually see a pretty good deal to move to a Vip series if they really are forced to disable the old boxes.


I have a feeling that Dish can pretty much appeal this until Tivo slowly bleeds to death. Switched video, the digital transition, and poorly supported cable cards (mainly cable's way of still leasing their sh*tty boxes) already pretty much gave Tivo the death blow.

Again, no DVR would effectively kill dish, in a matter of weeks. Completely disabling all DVRs is not an option, they would be better served to buy Tivo, and then shut the doors.


Has everyone forgot about the Blackberry mess? Pretty sure they still work.
 
williamkmurphy said:
I have a feeling that Dish can pretty much appeal this until Tivo slowly bleeds to death. Switched video, the digital transition, and poorly supported cable cards (mainly cable's way of still leasing their sh*tty boxes) already pretty much gave Tivo the death blow.

Again, no DVR would effectively kill dish, in a matter of weeks. Completely disabling all DVRs is not an option, they would be better served to buy Tivo, and then shut the doors.

Has everyone forgot about the Blackberry mess? Pretty sure they still work.
I don't know if Dish Network and Echostar can appeal this until TiVo bleeds to death. I don't believe that is the case. This lawsuit has already been up through the Court of Appeals, which blessed the injunction, so Dish Network/Echostar will have a hard time to convince anyone that an injunction to shut down certain DVR's does not apply.

But before one asks about the Blackberry mess, remember this:

Blackberry said they had a workaround of the patent in question, and then a few days before the injunction would have taken full force and effect, Blackberry's maker RIMM settled with NTP for $612 million. So of course Blackberries still work; RIMM settled.

In this case, there already is an injunction in full force and effect that required specific models of receivers to have their DVR functions disabled. There is a question on the date of the shutdown, but it is definitely no later than 20 May, if it hasn't taken effect already. And one has to wonder if Dish Network/Echostar will settle if they don't particularly like the terms.
 
And damn it, there's no such word as "loosing".

Well, there is, but in the sense of "to release" not "to lose or misplace."

E.g., "Robin loosed an arrow at the target. However, the shot missed and became lost in the forest. Robin said, 'I hate when I lose an arrow after loosing it!'"

:D
 
***

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 1)