EchoStar Announces Conference Call for First Quarter 2009 Financial Results
- Thread starter riffjim4069
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 91
- Views 7K
I am probably one of the few who have switched from Direct to Dish (about a week ago), and I think they have a real nice product and I think constructive criticism can help. Coming from Direct I think dish has some great positives, they have great equipment and while there HD offerings may not please all. Take out the out of market sports sports offerings and they are in the same "Ball Park" as Directv. Minus MLBTV for those keeping count
I would agree with the previous posts about Dish moving away from the "low cost" company but, it is nice to know for some people that you can get some basic HD at a pretty decent price if you want. If you do break away from the low cost, how do you rebrand yourself?
What part do you market that makes you stand out from Direct. The DVR's? The HD programming (again take out the sports and you are in the same range)
I could be wrong, because I am new to Dish dide after being with Direct for about nine years, but maybe the new management team will work on rebranding?? Just a thought from this new Dish customer
I am not talking about moving away from low cost. I am advocating a return to DISH's roots, which were to offer low cost with real value for your customer. DISH presently has a low cost intro price and then you add the extra fees and you find that you are just as high as DIRECTV is. Especially if you have multiple dvrs on your account. Back in the early part of the decade, DISH offered NO DVR FEES on all their 501/508/721 dvrs. This one thing made DIRECTV lower their price down from 9.99 per account for dvrs to 4.99 per account. DISH added a multitude of new subs, more subs than at any other time. When CHarlie thought he was going to have to pay to TIVO ,suddenly we had 5.98 dvr fees PER RECEIVER unless you have AEP.
When you are considering the competition , in this case DIRECTV, you have to compare what they are doing right and what is working for them to DISH and what is not working. In order to offer the low cost product to the customers you have to really provide something of value. My suggestion is to drop the dvr fee if you have the dvr advantage pack for all dvrs on your account , for all three programming packs ;top 100/200/250. THis puts DISH back in line and competition with DIRECTV. The advantage that DISH has over DIRECTV is their AEP offers no fees as well, and Directv charges you a dvr fee with their Premeir pack.
Now if they really want to launch a campaign that makes DISH gain subs from all directions, they need to set the tone for the entire market and become revolutionary and historical. Charge NO EXTRA price for HD channels! If you have an hd receiver, you get the hd channels with what ever pack you have at no extra cost. Platinum pack could be absorbed into the AEP at no extra cost. It really doesn't cost any extra for the hd versions of the sd channels in the programming packs any way, so why charge extra for those channels? Imagine how many new subs would flock to a company that doesn't charge extra for HD. Imagine how DISH could advertise that they are the first and only company to offer true FREE HD Channels to all subs with an hd receiver. THey would have to advertise this fact and blanket the market place with it, but it would work and they would no longer be bleeding subs and would instead regain some of the market place . It would also make the competition sit up and take notice and they would have to change what they are doing to compete.
I agree that when you take out the sports packs in comparison to DIRECTV , DISH is not only the same but actually leads in national channels and premiums too. Echostar has the best dvrs in the market and DISH uses them so they should advertise the superiority of their products to the public. A campaign that would put out the changes I outlined would make subs flock to DISH.
1. Dvr advantage covers all dvrs on your account. This actually helps echostar as well , because they will be selling more dvrs as a result.
2. DISH the home of True FREE Turbo hd! This one fact would cause subs to surge back to DISH and it would be as good a gimmick as the no dvr fees on DISH dvrs back in the early part of the decade.
They say you have to spend money to make money. DISH has continued to make profits off the ever dwindling amount of subs . It is time to put some of that money back into advertising and offering a cheap low price VALUE to all your subs and potential subs. Satellite tv depends on adding new subs and growing the company. What I have outlined would definitely grow the company and add subs. Do we really need a 4th quarter in a row where DISH is still bleeding subs?
$77 is what DirecTV would charge me (sans discounts) for what I essentially get from Dish. That's with status quo competition. That is one advantage to the confusing Dish system. A skilled consumer can save money. Problem is, "skilled" does not describe the typical person.
Many do want Dish to succeed. I just think some poster have had a perceived slight from Dish, rather it be Voom or LiL or sports issues, and they want to see dish fail to validate how they feel about Dish. Constructive criticisim is one thing. Telling them to do things they are not able to do (going back to full resolution, getting Voom back, getting MLBEI or NFLST, et. al.) or taking bets on subsciber losses is not construtive criticisim.
the majority of people lease their equipment. so how would dish profit from leasing a 722 vs a 222 with no extra monthly cost when the 222 clearly costs less to build?
Echostar and DISH are 2 different companies. If all dvrs were covered on dvr advantage on one account, more people would want to either dish n up to a dvr like the 722k or they would buy and add them to their accounts. THis would help Echostar , because DISH would have to put in an order for more of the 722k dvrs. Even though the two companies are seperate now , Charlie Ergen runs both and as such would benefit from more receivers being sold to subs or to DISH for Subs using dish n up offers.
The idea I was trying to float, is to level the playing field between DISH and DIRECTV . Directv has the dvr plus and hd dvr plus packs that cover all dvrs on the account for their version of top 250. DISH does not have that as an option. So this limits customer choice. Either have one dvr on your account or sub to the higher AEP. This would give DISH parity as well as advantage over DIRECT, if they offered dvr advantage packs at all levels that cover multiple dvrs as well as with AEP. You have to remember that DISH will still charge the additional receiver /lease fee at 7.00 for hd /5.00 for sd receivers. So DISH will still make that money and will attract more subs if they know they can have multiple dvrs at lower priced programming packs. This one thing would help build subs , if DISH advertised this fact. You have to remember that DISH didn't charge a dvr fee in the early decade and they grew subs at a terrific rate back then because they were the only company NOT charging a dvr fee back then. This can be used again to build DISH back up. WHich is what we all want to keep DISH viable right?
Directv has the same, if not a bigger problem with loosing customers on a monthly basis than DISH Network does.
The only difference is that Directv is hiding this from everyone by signing up more customers to off-set their subscriber losses. Heck Directv will take a majority of the customers who don't pass the credit check with DISH!!!!!
As far as pricing, DISH Network beats Directv hands down everytime. The problem is that again Directv is hiding that their higher prices behind a promotional discount which they give to new customers for the first year, and then when customers complain about the high prices they give the customers additional discounts to shut them up and keep them as a customer.
Dish on the other hand has decided to take the subscriber looses right now, and start going after quality customers.
Granted that Dish could do a little better with the national advertising, but they are doing pretty good at the moment.
Whats going to happen here in the next several months is that they are going to get to the point where they can no longer maintain their customer base and the customers will be dropping off faster than they are dropping off with Dish right now.
You can't go around signing up crappy customers all the time, and it will get to the point where they customers will all seem like they are disconnecting at the same time.
The only difference is that Directv is hiding this from everyone by signing up more customers to off-set their subscriber losses. Heck Directv will take a majority of the customers who don't pass the credit check with DISH!!!!!
As far as pricing, DISH Network beats Directv hands down everytime. The problem is that again Directv is hiding that their higher prices behind a promotional discount which they give to new customers for the first year, and then when customers complain about the high prices they give the customers additional discounts to shut them up and keep them as a customer.
Dish on the other hand has decided to take the subscriber looses right now, and start going after quality customers.
Granted that Dish could do a little better with the national advertising, but they are doing pretty good at the moment.
Whats going to happen here in the next several months is that they are going to get to the point where they can no longer maintain their customer base and the customers will be dropping off faster than they are dropping off with Dish right now.
You can't go around signing up crappy customers all the time, and it will get to the point where they customers will all seem like they are disconnecting at the same time.
I thought that DIRECTV had already made a move to get rid of crappy customers a couple of years ago? I had read that some of their churn before the big hd explosion two years ago was because of them cutting off high risk credit subs.
I agree with AT100, etc., but get rid of the HD packages and just roll them into the AT paks - HD is no longer a premium IMO.
if they did this they would have to raise the price of the basic packages, making those who do not even want or can use hd have to pay for hd.
IT cost no more for the hd version of the sd channels so this would not have to happen. The only channels that might cost more is the platinum pack , because there is no sd equivalent . The point is that DISH needs new subs and the way to get a buttload, is to be the first in the industry to offer FREE HD and mean it.
You make a perfect argument for a la carte...why should people who don't watch sports have to play ESPN $3 a month? Heck, I cringe every month knowing that a portion of my subscription dollars go to pay for dozens or horrible channels - I would just as soon they money went to the channels I watch and not one penny to the others.
if it costs no more per month to have the hd channel, then whats the hold up with speed hd? im sure money has something to do with it. however, when dish does rid itself of all mpeg2 broadcasts, then perhaps there would be a reduction in cost as there would be no need to carry sd versions.
Right now all tv providers are treating HD as a premium service , even though it is becoming the norm. They are charging more because they can. Most of all sd channel contracts include the hd version for no extra price. THe Speed channel & FX channels haven't come up for negotiation yet and won't till this summer. This was announced on that last Charlie chat.Till then there will be no Speed or Fx in hd.
i think that proves my point. they are going to negotiate. which means discuss money. the owners know dish want to provide their wanting customers with hd feeds of speed and fx. the network owners are going to want more money, which will mean higher costs for the hd feed. so how does it not cost more?
It is regular time to negotiate the contracts for carriage of FX and speed channel. It isn' t because DISH wants to add the hd versions of the channels. It is because DISH finally has capacity to add the hd versions and the contracts to carry them are coming up this summer is a coincidence. IF hd verisons were more than sd , then we would have a real problem in regards to Local channels in hd. DISH only pays the same amount for hd as sd for locals. If you notice the viacom channels took quite a while to come online even though the contracts were negotiated a while back. THey had to wait for 129 sat to be launched and up and running and there was room on 61.5 as well , in order to turn them on.
Yes, some hd channels cost more to add that have no sd verisons like Universal , Hdnet movies, and others in the Platinum pack. You do have to pay more for them but isn't it funny that DISH charges $10.00 for their extra hd channels in the Platinum pack and DIRECTV only charges $4.99 for those same channels? Lets look at the premium movie channels in hd. THey haven't gone up all that much in comparision to what we were paying before for the sd ones. You can still get HBo /Starz for $22.00 a month. You can get 3 premiums for $31.00, 4 premiums for $40.00 and add Playboy as 5 premiums for $50.00. So obviously this blows your theory away that it cost more for FX or Speed channels. Premium movie channels are always higher than regular national cable channels like Fx or Speed and they haven't gone up that much . You can sub to just premium movie channels and receive them in hd for no extra cost than the sd versions. All you need is an hd receiver and a subscription to the premium channels .
But the main point you keep missing is that DISH needs to do something to attract new subs and keep current subs. Being the first company to offer free hd channels in the programming packs would make people flock to DISH, because they would be $ 10.00 cheaper than the competition for the same hd channels. IF DISH keeps losing subs each quarter like they have for 2 quarters, soon to be 3 , the extra $10.00 they would lose by giving free hd would be the least of their problems. All tv providers like sat and cable ,telecos, depend on adding new subs , more than they lose, in order to keep growing and their stock to keep going up in value and to pay stock dividends.
DISH has had no problems in making profit for years now. THat is because they charge a lot of extra nickel and dime fees that they created themselves.
1) The dvr fee PER receiver is one of them. THey charge $5.98 a month PER dvr receiver and that is their made up fee . As stated in my earlier posts, DISH charged no fee for dvrs in the early part of this decade, so they could just as easily remove the fee if they wanted to.
2) THe no phone connection fee for $5.00 a month is another. This fee was created to push people to use a phone line so they could prevent stacking. Still their made up fee , and no one else has this fee in the industry.
3) THen look at the price they charge for extra receivers compared to DIRECTV. THey charge $7.00 for hd/$5.00 for sd receivers after the first. Directv charges $4.99 regardless of type of receiver.
4)THe hd enabeling fee was finally removed after first jacking it up to $7.00 and then reducing it down again to $5.00, but was a made up fee that they created to push people to either commit to hd or stay with sd.
5)Then look at the pay per views . THe highest charged in the industry at DISH. They charge $4.99 for sd /$5.99 for hd movies from the guide. Then if you take the recorded movies on the DISH portion of the dvr hard drive , you pay $5.99 for sd /$6.99 for hd. DIRECTV charges $3.99 for sd /$4.99 for hd.
DISH can afford to do what I suggest and they would attract new subs and grow their company . THey have more than enough extra fees coming in each month from unsuspecting subs who don't realize how the nickel and dime fees add up. Being the first to NOT charge extra for the hd channels in the programming pack would be revolutionary. IF they don't want to do that , how about this one?
IF you take AEP , no dvr fees, and all hd channels are included for FREE ! Platinum pack could still be added but at a new lower price of $5.00 a month. Come on they are too high already at $10.00. A true America's everything pack and at a great price. DISH a few years back, gave AEP the hd channels at a discounted price of $5.00 a month or $15.00 when everyone else paid $20.00 .This was before they split the hd packs into two. So I know that they could do this again and give them the price for free. DISH would be the best value in the industry and their average revenue per sub would go up as well. Pleasing their stock holders and the premium companies like HBO/starz/showtime/cinemax, because more subs would subscribe to these higher cost premium channels.
IF they did offer FREE hd channels for AEP they could still charge for hd at the lower programming packs when combined with classic packs. I still say they should offer all dvrs covered at no extra cost on dvr advantage packs. This way both ends of the spectrum would benefit; lower end subs and high end subs. Giving everyone something of value for their money.
Last edited:
mike, there is still a cost to keep the hd stream. the network has to uplink the hd to dish, then dish has to provide the feed to the customers. i do not have proof that the networks do not require payment for the hd feed. i will admit that. but i cannot fathom that they would not charge more for it. they have a product that is of better quality and in demand. do you really think they will give it away to dish for free? i mean, thats like assuming that fisher communications would be willing to give their channels to dish for free.
as for the fees, they have been cut down pretty good lately. i pay only 9.00 ( 7.oo for 622, 5 for 322, then 3 dollar discount)a month in equip fees for a 722, 622, and 322. yes, i have aep to cut the second dvr fee, but even without that i would only pay 14.98. add up how much this would cost with direct, 5 recievers at 4.99, thats 25 bucks plus on dvr fee. at least dish gives the option to get rid of a fee for the second tv with the phoneline. direct sure doesnt. oh, and they completely wiped the hd enabling fee.
everyone thinks that dish should just give the extra stuff for free cause they have it. i guess along those lines GM should only make caddillacs and not charge more for them then a regular chevy line car. every room in a hotel should also be the presidential suite at the same cost of the regular rooms too, huh?
as for the fees, they have been cut down pretty good lately. i pay only 9.00 ( 7.oo for 622, 5 for 322, then 3 dollar discount)a month in equip fees for a 722, 622, and 322. yes, i have aep to cut the second dvr fee, but even without that i would only pay 14.98. add up how much this would cost with direct, 5 recievers at 4.99, thats 25 bucks plus on dvr fee. at least dish gives the option to get rid of a fee for the second tv with the phoneline. direct sure doesnt. oh, and they completely wiped the hd enabling fee.
everyone thinks that dish should just give the extra stuff for free cause they have it. i guess along those lines GM should only make caddillacs and not charge more for them then a regular chevy line car. every room in a hotel should also be the presidential suite at the same cost of the regular rooms too, huh?
Mike, you make some very good points...just like many us who have posted here over the past 18-months or so. Unfortunately, Dish Network apparently does visit SatelliteGuys and/or implement any of our recommendations; hence their disappointing numbers for the past four quarters.
Regardless, it's still far from doom and gloom for Dish Network; they are basically holding their own, more or less (13.6 million subscribers ain't too shabby), and still squeezing out a profit during tough economic times. Two things that have to potential to rock the folks at Dish Network are: being found in contempt of court in the Tivo case, and losing their case with VOOM. We shall see...
Regardless, it's still far from doom and gloom for Dish Network; they are basically holding their own, more or less (13.6 million subscribers ain't too shabby), and still squeezing out a profit during tough economic times. Two things that have to potential to rock the folks at Dish Network are: being found in contempt of court in the Tivo case, and losing their case with VOOM. We shall see...
I point to you the above examples of why they don't charge extra.
1. No extra cost for locals. You pay 5.00 for sd locals and get the hd locals at NO extra cost.
2. Pay the same price for SD premium movie channels as you do for HD at no extra cost.
If they don't charge extra for those why would they charge extra for FX or SPEED? They certainly any more important than the national networks or the premium movie channels. The only way I see them charging more for hd channels is in regard to sports channels and other hd channels with no sd equivalent. Example Platinum pack and other sport related channel packs like NFL Sunday ticket that DIRECTV carries.
As for DISH giving anything away for free , don't be fooled. THey made up the extra fees just because they could. They aren't going any where. They will still be able to charge to those customers who don't know a way around the programming packs and extra charges.
So if they gave AEP subs free hd channels they would be out only the $10.00 , but would still gain more in the way of new subs attracted to the great value and more existing subs that would upgrade to get the better deal. The average revenue goes up for all subs for DISH that would upgrade to AEP. THe dvrs that are not charged a fee with DVR advantage and or AEP would mean more dvrs sold to Echostar through DISH . The premium movie channels would be happy because more DISH subs would upgrade to premiums because of the free hd attached to AEP. Come on everyone would win and DISH would stop losing subs and gain some back and then some.
I don't see why people can't see that DISH needs a strategy to regain the market they lost. Guess What ? HD is not a premium any longer and the first company that sees that and capitalizes off of this will be the one with all the growth. Or we could keep doing what DISH has been doing and how is that working for them again?
That is exactly why I am posting the ideas that I am. Because DISH DOES read this forum. I am hoping that they will use some of them to help make DISH grow again and give all subs something of value for their money. DISH might be "holding their own" for now , but guess what? IF they continue to lose subs and continue to make no changes to that strategy , they will eventually die.
The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing the same way every day and expecting a different outcome. THat is why DISH is bleeding subs going on 3 quarters now and DIRECTV is adding subs and having the best growth ever. DIRECTV has simplified their entire programing process and made their subs happy with new hd channels , great advertising , better customer service, simplified uniform fee structure. DISH still has better receivers/software and high tech, but the general public would never know that because DISH is advertising "come on get happy" for 9.99. DISH needs to change because nothing can stay static for ever . The time is now.
Last edited:
I used to think Dish Network followed these threads, cared what we thought, and tried to formulate a business strategy to keep their best and brightest customers happy. Apparently I was wrong because Dish Network is getting ready to post yet another quarter of subscriber losses and higher churn. If memory serves, I believe this will be their 4th straight quarter in which they post a shrinking customer base.
Similar threads
