EchoStar Announces Conference Call for First Quarter 2009 Financial Results

[nrholland]

To be honest, I think "Turbo HD gold customers get hosed!!" pretty much sums up the problem. We shall see...

I agree as do many, many others. Do you see ads on t.v. with Dish promoting Turbo HD like they did last year?...Nope!!

However, I think Dish is likely not the only one at fault. I think the cable channels are involved in this SCAM as well. I'm sure they share a lot of the blame.

If Dish wanted to bring their reputation back up I think they "bite the bullet" and give us Turbo subs whatever the Classic subs are getting in HD...and add the YES Network as well.

 

[MikeD-C05]

DISH needs to return to it's simple roots . Roots that built the company from nothing to the number 2 sat service. In order to compete and even become stronger , they need to do some simple things.

1. Move all customer service to AMERICA and ENGLISH speaking csrs only. NO more foreign call centers.

2. ELIMINATE all excess , made up fees . Start with the dvr fee. Eliminate this fee for all dvrs on your account if you have DVR advantage pack. THis one fee is killing them with the competition. Cut your additional receiver fees back to 5.00 per extra receiver. You are too high for additional fees on hd receivers.

3. Hire a good marketing team of advertisers and pay to sell your company to the public . Especially market the dvrs and how they work and what you can do with them. Advertise your strengths to the public.

4. Simplify all programming and follow your competition's lead on this. We don't need all these stupid names and various packs. All turbo hd packs should include ALL hd channels in those packs just like if you had the classic packs + hd . Or if you really want to gain new subs advertise that you give hd channels for NO charge and eliminate the stand alone hd packs entirely. Platinum should be added to AEP at no extra charge.

In order to grow the company and stop the churn you need to give your subs something of value , like they did with the 501/508/721 dvrs and NO dvr fees ever. If you gave the hd channels for free and advertised this , you would slaughter the competition. DISH would be the first company to do this and it would be historical and set the tone for the rest of the industry. They would have to follow CHarlie's lead or they would lose subs as well. Volume solves a lot of ills in the industry. So the more subs you add , the more money you make as a company. Sat companies have to add new subs or there is no future . Without making these changes , DISH will continue to lose subs and eventually be sold at a fire sale.

 

[satjay]

I do like some of the flexability with the packages. I like the fact that if I want to I can downsize in spring/summer saves me a few $$$ and still get some decent channels in HD. In a comparison with Direct packages it seems to be all or nothing.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I do like some of the flexability with the packages. I like the fact that if I want to I can downsize in spring/summer saves me a few $$$ and still get some decent channels in HD. In a comparison with Direct packages it seems to be all or nothing.

When I say confusing packages , I mean there are several that cause the sub or potential sub unneeded consternation. The new names for the packs are crazy and sound just like the turbo hd packs. Classic bronze , classic silver,classic gold and then the turbo hd stand alone packs in Bronze, silver, gold. IF you add hd to any classic pack the hd becomes Bronze silver and gold. So now you have Classic silver +silver hd pack. But if you want stand alone hd packs it becomes Turbo silver packs . WHat is up with all the damn metallic names on all the packs? The top 100 sounded fine and if you wanted hd you could call it metallic names . Take a look at dvr advantage packs. Should be able to get the dvr advantage pack for each top 100/200/250 . Instead you have to add the top 200(classic silver) and add top 250 bonus pack to come up with the dvr advantage pack for top 250. If you want just bronze +dvr advantage pack it isn't even advertised on the web site any longer.

Directv has a better way of doing it.

Family pack
Top choice
Total choice
Premeire pack
dvr plus or hd dvr plus -covers all dvrs on your account.
add hd to any pack for 10.00, receive all hd channels in that pack.

See how simple that is? Now lets go look at the new confusing names for the receivers. duo tuner receivers ,solo tuner receivers, hd duo tuner receivers , hd solo tuner receivers. Can you make it any more stupid? The main point you should gain from what I posted before is that I am advocating that DISH use the KISS method of business.

K - Keep
I - It
S - Simple
S - Stupid

 

[riffjim4069]

The VOOM Curse...

Until about a two or three years ago E*/Dish had the best equipment, a good price point, and more HD than other services. Then it seemed to go down hill. It lost HD and sports battle to D* and I not sure anybody really understands the various Dish packages. At one time it look like (to me anyway) Dish was going to battle Directv. Now it seems (again to me) that its a company going nowhere. I'm been with them since 97 but the future does not seem bright for subs. Hopefully I'm wrong.

It all started going south for Dish Network when they illegally terminated the VOOM affiliation agreement (according to VOOM). To be honest, Dish Network started going down-hill when they started watering down their HD in October 2005; they went from serving-up a Philly Steak 'n Cheese to dishing-out a smelly sh*t Sandwich.

As others have mentioned, what ever happened with "value" for Dish Network's top customers? When I first signed up with E*, their AEP was a bargain compared to D* and Cable. Nowadays, customers signing up for DirecTV get a lot more for the money...not to mentioned Sunday Ticket...and Cable (to include FiOS) offers outstanding bundled savings. The confusing programming paks, nickle & dime fees, multiple DVR fees, yanking of channels without notice, horrible customer service, and price increases larger than Cable and the Telco is nothing new - they issues have been discussed here in great length.

After VOOM DBS shutdown we enjoyed our Dish Network service for more than 2 1/2 years...but they are no longer a value or quality leader, and they do nothing to differentiate themselves from their competitors. I would love too see Dish Network "right their ship" and would gladly consider signing up if they returned to doing what they did just a few years ago: quality channels, competitive pricing (aka Value), good customer services.

 

[dishcomm]

OK, so are you referring to net or gross losses? They lost 102k in Q4, but that does not count new subscribers. DirecTV also lost over 100k subs, just gained more.

I also don't see traditional cable pulling away many Dish subs.

I predict level profits, but subs down 20k net.

here is a report from skyreport.com's the "evening bridge"

Bad News for DISH, Good News for DIRECTVIt's been a rough year for DISH Network and it probably won't get better anytime soon, at least according to Collins Stewart media analyst Tom Eagan. In a note on Tuesday, Eagan wrote that he expects the DBS provider to lose at least 95,000 subscribers in the first quarter of 2009 and, thanks to all those discounts and introductory offers DISH is tossing around, only post a two percent increase in revenues for the quarter given its high churn rate.
Ouch...

DIRECTV, on the other hand, is in much better shape, according to Eagan, who said the company could outperform every other pay-TV provider in Q1 and should remain strong all year. The year also looks OK for pay-TV providers in general, which should all outperform their fourth quarter results in Q1, Eagan said.

 

[riffjim4069]

here is a report from skyreport.com's the "evening bridge"

Bad News for DISH, Good News for DIRECTVIt's been a rough year for DISH Network and it probably won't get better anytime soon, at least according to Collins Stewart media analyst Tom Eagan. In a note on Tuesday, Eagan wrote that he expects the DBS provider to lose at least 95,000 subscribers in the first quarter of 2009 and, thanks to all those discounts and introductory offers DISH is tossing around, only post a two percent increase in revenues for the quarter given its high churn rate.
Ouch...

DIRECTV, on the other hand, is in much better shape, according to Eagan, who said the company could outperform every other pay-TV provider in Q1 and should remain strong all year. The year also looks OK for pay-TV providers in general, which should all outperform their fourth quarter results in Q1, Eagan said.

Just to clarify, Eagan (similar to Ergen) is merely an analyst and in no way connected to Dish Network. Therefore these numbers could be higher or lower. To be honest, I will stick with my estimate (over 100K) since I have been much more accurate than any of the analysts. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy wasn't getting his information right here at SatelliteGuys. Anyway, if true Dish Network could be on their way to shedding a half-million customers this year.

 

[MikeD-C05]

When will the bleeding stop? How many subs does Charlie have to lose before he wakes up and fixes the obvious problems that have continued to plague DISH? All he has to do is read any of the suggestions we have put here on this board to improve his bottom line.

 

[dishcomm]

When will the bleeding stop? How many subs does Charlie have to lose before he wakes up and fixes the obvious problems that have continued to plague DISH? All he has to do is read any of the suggestions we have put here on this board to improve his bottom line.

don't you know it is completely the fault of field personnel?
The techs are the reason why Dish is losing subs.
The QC pricks are on the warpath. We are getting hit with nit picky little Bullsh!t that based solely on the opinion of a person who is accountable to no one.
Fpr example I was told me work was a fail because the cable from the dish to the edge of the roof was about 2" off the roof.
Son of bitch failed the job with the following opinion. "Cable not attached".

 

[HDRoberts]

Problem with this thread is too many sour grapes. Most posters I think WANT to see dish lose subs and go out of business. I hope not. I don't want to see my $42/month bill go to $77/month with DirecTV.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Problem with this thread is too many sour grapes. Most posters I think WANT to see dish lose subs and go out of business. I hope not. I don't want to see my $42/month bill go to $77/month with DirecTV.

IF constructive criticism and comparing DISH to its competition is "sour grapes" , so be it . My point is that you can offer various programming packs without making them so convuluted on names and how to add them together . THe hd packs and hd add on packs are both named Turbo hd. Some go with the stand alone hd packs only to find out that all the hd in that pack is not there, like Fox news, Fox business channel etc. This causes a negative reaction to subs who then will churn as soon as they can and or speak negatively of their experience to all they know. Then their friends and family will tell everyone they know an so on and so on. DISH started as a company on good word of mouth. THey offered something of value to their subs at low costs. THe nickel and dime made up fees, the excessive dvr fees Per receiver are the worst. Just as positive word of mouth in 96 helped grow DISH , negative word of mouth via the internet, and in person , can destroy DISH. If DISH is to survive and Thrive they better start listening to some of the "sour grapes" and suggestions to fix the problems , or they will continue to dwindle and go under .

 

[satjay]

IF constructive criticism and comparing DISH to its competition is "sour grapes" , so be it . My point is that you can offer various programming packs without making them so convuluted on names and how to add them together . THe hd packs and hd add on packs are both named Turbo hd. Some go with the stand alone hd packs only to find out that all the hd in that pack is not there, like Fox news, Fox business channel etc. This causes a negative reaction to subs who then will churn as soon as they can and or speak negatively of their experience to all they know. Then their friends and family will tell everyone they know an so on and so on. DISH started as a company on good word of mouth. THey offered something of value to their subs at low costs. THe nickel and dime made up fees, the excessive dvr fees Per receiver are the worst. Just as positive word of mouth in 96 helped grow DISH , negative word of mouth via the internet, and in person , can destroy DISH. If DISH is to survive and Thrive they better start listening to some of the "sour grapes" and suggestions to fix the problems , or they will continue to dwindle and go under .

I am probably one of the few who have switched from Direct to Dish (about a week ago), and I think they have a real nice product and I think constructive criticism can help. Coming from Direct I think dish has some great positives, they have great equipment and while there HD offerings may not please all. Take out the out of market sports sports offerings and they are in the same "Ball Park" as Directv. Minus MLBTV for those keeping count

I would agree with the previous posts about Dish moving away from the "low cost" company but, it is nice to know for some people that you can get some basic HD at a pretty decent price if you want. If you do break away from the low cost, how do you rebrand yourself?

What part do you market that makes you stand out from Direct. The DVR's? The HD programming (again take out the sports and you are in the same range)

I could be wrong, because I am new to Dish dide after being with Direct for about nine years, but maybe the new management team will work on rebranding?? Just a thought from this new Dish customer

 

[Curtis0620]

But it appears that HD Sports are more important than a few more HBO channels.

Come on, DISH can't even guarantee you can get your home teams games in HD.

 

[Pen15head]

ok, this thread finally made me register and stop just being a reader. There are multiple comments about dish not having sunday ticket/mlb ei. i for one am glad they do not. due to the cost of that program, i am pretty sure it would affect my bill, even if i did not subscribe. look how much directv pays a year for it. the cost of that cannot be covered by just the ppv subscribtion costs. it has to trickle down to every subscriber. i can see why dish does not have these sports. they do not want to enter into such a lucrative deal with nfl or mlb and not be able to make a profit off it.

heres some food for thought, directv pays 700 million a year for sunday ticket. at 300 dollars a subscription, they would need 2.33 million subscribers to just pay the cost. this is before any profit made.

another comment, "dish should just give all turbo subscribers new channels". perhaps this is not dish's choice? i can see how a company like viacom does not want to give their subscribers their best channels without requiring carriage of their runner ups. if viacom allowed their headline channels to be in one sole package, they risk losing viewers of their other channels as they may feel that more dish subscribers may choose to go to a turbo package and this will weaken their runner up channels as they will not be viewable. remember, dish can only "choose" to put in a package what the owner "allows" to be put in.

dish should eliminate all their fees. uh, they have done a good just in removing some already this year. the hd enabling fee is toast for all customers. and then those with DDA get one phoneline fee wiaved. oh, and to top it off, those who had dda and a phoneline connected to their dual tuner box got a discount of 3.00 bucks a month. lets face it, dish has a way for us to save a lot of money on equip fees. i have a 722, 622, and a 322. they waived all my dvr fees since i have AEP. i only pay 9.00 dollars a month in equip fees for 2 tvs that have hd-dvr, to sd tvs with dvr, and 2 non-dvr sd tvs the way my equip is configured. (7.00 hd rc fee, 5.00 sd rec fee, and 3.00 discount for phone being connected). with direct tv, i would be over 30.00 for this equipment. i would hate to see what i would pay with cable.

 

[tomcrown1]

ok, this thread finally made me register and stop just being a reader. There are multiple comments about dish not having sunday ticket/mlb ei. i for one am glad they do not. due to the cost of that program, i am pretty sure it would affect my bill, even if i did not subscribe. look how much directv pays a year for it. the cost of that cannot be covered by just the ppv subscribtion costs. it has to trickle down to every subscriber. i can see why dish does not have these sports. they do not want to enter into such a lucrative deal with nfl or mlb and not be able to make a profit off it.

heres some food for thought, directv pays 700 million a year for sunday ticket. at 300 dollars a subscription, they would need 2.33 million subscribers to just pay the cost. this is before any profit made.

another comment, "dish should just give all turbo subscribers new channels". perhaps this is not dish's choice? i can see how a company like viacom does not want to give their subscribers their best channels without requiring carriage of their runner ups. if viacom allowed their headline channels to be in one sole package, they risk losing viewers of their other channels as they may feel that more dish subscribers may choose to go to a turbo package and this will weaken their runner up channels as they will not be viewable. remember, dish can only "choose" to put in a package what the owner "allows" to be put in.

dish should eliminate all their fees. uh, they have done a good just in removing some already this year. the hd enabling fee is toast for all customers. and then those with DDA get one phoneline fee wiaved. oh, and to top it off, those who had dda and a phoneline connected to their dual tuner box got a discount of 3.00 bucks a month. lets face it, dish has a way for us to save a lot of money on equip fees. i have a 722, 622, and a 322. they waived all my dvr fees since i have AEP. i only pay 9.00 dollars a month in equip fees for 2 tvs that have hd-dvr, to sd tvs with dvr, and 2 non-dvr sd tvs the way my equip is configured. (7.00 hd rc fee, 5.00 sd rec fee, and 3.00 discount for phone being connected). with direct tv, i would be over 30.00 for this equipment. i would hate to see what i would pay with cable.

The problem with dish is the same problem with Windows too many names that confuses the consumer. Vista is not a bad system but with four product name, it makes one have to wonder what to get. The eaisest thing to do is to stick with XP.

Window 7 will fail because microsoft has not learned from its error.

The same is true for dish two many packages. Dish just need four simple package. Make it simple and watch dish grow make it hard and watch Dish die.

 

[Pen15head]

i agree, simplify the names. go back to t100, t200, t250. and instead of a plethora of hd add ons, you have two. you have have the regular hd add on for ten bucks or hd+ for 20. the turbo hds are ok, i really dont have a better idea.

 

[DodgerKing]

Problem with this thread is too many sour grapes. Most posters I think WANT to see dish lose subs and go out of business. I hope not. I don't want to see my $42/month bill go to $77/month with DirecTV.

I think most want them to succeed, even us Direct subs.

Even if Dish failed or merged, your bill will not go up as a result due to the fact that there are many other providers competing to keep the costs down. Even in very rural areas where DBS may be the only option, the price for DBS is still mostly set by the larger number of subs in the urban areas (where competition is strong).

 

[db2]

heres some food for thought, directv pays 700 million a year for sunday ticket. at 300 dollars a subscription, they would need 2.33 million subscribers to just pay the cost. this is before any profit made.

Although I agree with you that NFL ST is probably a loss leader in the end, you are forgetting that this package generates a huge amount of revenue from public venues. Virutally every bar, restaurant and casino that wants out of market games must purchase ST from D*. And they pay significantly more than an individual subscription.

another comment, "dish should just give all turbo subscribers new channels". perhaps this is not dish's choice? i can see how a company like viacom does not want to give their subscribers their best channels without requiring carriage of their runner ups. if viacom allowed their headline channels to be in one sole package, they risk losing viewers of their other channels as they may feel that more dish subscribers may choose to go to a turbo package and this will weaken their runner up channels as they will not be viewable. remember, dish can only "choose" to put in a package what the owner "allows" to be put in.

I agree with you on this one. Most likely the networks do not want Dish to place the channels in an HD only package without certain concessions. That being said, I'm sure that the networks would allow it for the right price and we all know how stubborn and cheap Dish can be regarding negotiations with networks.

 

[Pen15head]

db2- good point on the commercial account aspect of nfl. that is a big factor i left out of the equation. as for the network concessions to be met, if dish did meet them, then the cost of the turbo hd package would probably be right next to the classic packages with hd. well, in the future there will probably be just hd. once dish switches to a full mpeg4 broadcast on Western arc, we will probably see changes in programming along what we are wishing for.

 

[MikeD-C05]

i agree, simplify the names. go back to t100, t200, t250. and instead of a plethora of hd add ons, you have two. you have have the regular hd add on for ten bucks or hd+ for 20. the turbo hds are ok, i really dont have a better idea.

:up:up:up