For those who would like to Track AMC14

[dishcomm]

According to that site, AMC-14 is more than 8,000 miles above the earth, so I am not sure where you get 5.5 miles.

i forgot the "K" following 5.5......Sue me..I really enjoy being around people who just have to be the smartest person in the room all the ime. and have zero tolerance for errors.

You and I have to my knowledge never posted to each other until this day. I am comfortable in the knowledge that this will be the ONLY day we converse.

 

[drdroo]

In TS Kelso's Celestrak TLE's, the Norad ID used is 32708 and the 'current' TLE is -
http://www.celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/tle-new.txt

AMC-14
1 32708U 08011A 08081.39023700 -.00000157 00000-0 00000+0 0 85
2 32708 49.1180 169.4890 7098407 357.5510 2.5630 2.24735313 166

The N2YO site is using NORAD ID 32709 (2008-011B), with a TLE of -
1 32709U 08011B 08079.63845251 -.00000129 00000-0 00000+0 0 82
2 32709 049.2041 169.9937 6423314 356.9988 062.9436 03.07215499 121

Heavens Above is using the same TLE as Celestrak, with Norad ID 32708.
1 32708U 08011A 08081.39023700 -.00000157 00000-0 00000+0 0 85
2 32708 049.1180 169.4890 7098407 357.5510 002.5630 02.24735313 166

I'm going to trust that N2YO's site is wrong, because I trust T.S. Kelso. It's possible Celestrak is wrong, but I've always found their data to be accurate.

EDIT: N2YO is using the same TLE as Heavens Above for 32709 (Object B), but the NASASpaceflight.com people are paying attention to 32708, not 32709.

The question is still 'who is right?' Neither? one or the other? The only people that really know where the thing is would be those who have power to control the thing.

 

[vtjman]

i forgot the "K" following 5.5......Sue me..I really enjoy being around people who just have to be the smartest person in the room all the ime. and have zero tolerance for errors.

You and I have to my knowledge never posted to each other until this day. I am comfortable in the knowledge that this will be the ONLY day we converse.

Um, I am by far not the smartest person in the room, all I said was that the current altitude listed on that site was not 5.5 miles, I thought you were really reading it that way, very sorry.

 

[dishcomm]

In TS Kelso's Celestrak TLE's, the Norad ID used is 32708 and the 'current' TLE is -
http://www.celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/tle-new.txt

AMC-14
1 32708U 08011A 08081.39023700 -.00000157 00000-0 00000+0 0 85
2 32708 49.1180 169.4890 7098407 357.5510 2.5630 2.24735313 166

The N2YO site is using NORAD ID 32709 (2008-011B), with a TLE of -
1 32709U 08011B 08079.63845251 -.00000129 00000-0 00000+0 0 82
2 32709 049.2041 169.9937 6423314 356.9988 062.9436 03.07215499 121

Heavens Above is using the same TLE as Celestrak, with Norad ID 32708.
1 32708U 08011A 08081.39023700 -.00000157 00000-0 00000+0 0 85
2 32708 049.1180 169.4890 7098407 357.5510 002.5630 02.24735313 166

I'm going to trust that N2YO's site is wrong, because I trust T.S. Kelso.

look i am not going to get into a big thing here. You think the data you see is better because why? Because it looks more favorable to you? Fine....You said you trust the other data more. So what. Until now, this is the only site I had known about..So because I decided to post the data from a particular site, that gives you license to jump down my throat? What makes you so cock sure the data you trust comes from the sole authority on this?
Your decision to trust one over the other apprears to be subjective.

 

[Dah-Henny]

drdroo, if the correct ID is indeed 32708, that is good news, seeing that its apogee is near the 22000 mile marker. Heavens Above is also tracking 32709, with an apogee close to the failure altitude.

I hope you are correct.

 

[dishcomm]

In TS Kelso's Celestrak TLE's, the Norad ID used is 32708 and the 'current' TLE is -
http://www.celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/tle-new.txt

AMC-14
1 32708U 08011A 08081.39023700 -.00000157 00000-0 00000+0 0 85
2 32708 49.1180 169.4890 7098407 357.5510 2.5630 2.24735313 166

The N2YO site is using NORAD ID 32709 (2008-011B), with a TLE of -
1 32709U 08011B 08079.63845251 -.00000129 00000-0 00000+0 0 82
2 32709 049.2041 169.9937 6423314 356.9988 062.9436 03.07215499 121

Heavens Above is using the same TLE as Celestrak, with Norad ID 32708.
1 32708U 08011A 08081.39023700 -.00000157 00000-0 00000+0 0 85
2 32708 049.1180 169.4890 7098407 357.5510 002.5630 02.24735313 166

I'm going to trust that N2YO's site is wrong, because I trust T.S. Kelso. It's possible Celestrak is wrong, but I've always found their data to be accurate.

EDIT: N2YO is using the same TLE as Heavens Above for 32709 (Object B), but the NASASpaceflight.com people are paying attention to 32708, not 32709.

The question is still 'who is right?' Neither? one or the other? The only people that really know where the thing is would be those who have power to control the thing.

i looked at the link you sent...it's gibberish ot me..Care to explain what all that means..here's your chance to make a choice. Do you want to be informative or do you wish to be condscending..the choice os yours.

 

[drdroo]

last night AMC 14 was around 13k miles above the earth...Seems the satellite is coming back home..just checked. Alt is 5.5 miles...Shouldn't this thing be going away from the Earth.

My argument is with this. None of us have any idea where this thing is, but we've already seen these links dozens of times. You're basically trying to post fact where there isn't any (13K miles above the earth, 5.5K miles now), based on data that may or may not be accurate. The only people who know really where this thing is, is the people who have control of it. In an Elliptical orbit, it will be further and closer to the land at different times, that's normal.

The reason why I trust Celestrak is pretty simple. Celestrak is the SAME data many of us use for visible satellite views (such as Iridium flares) and in my case Amateur Radio satellite work. Many of us have used Celestrak TLEs for years. When I used to work Amateur Radio sats, that's where I downloaded my daily sets before going out with the laptop.

 

[drdroo]

drdroo, if the correct ID is indeed 32708, that is good news, seeing that its apogee is near the 22000 mile marker. Heavens Above is also tracking 32709, with an apogee close to the failure altitude.

I hope you are correct.

I don't know why the alleged Briz-M debris would move higher than the satellite if it stopped the burn early like they claim unless there's more to it.

The NASASpaceflight.com forum folks (who seem to have much better concept about this stuff than I do certainly) are paying attention to the specs for 32708. I don't know what their reasoning is behind this, but there's an 11 page thread going on over there.

I hope that 32708 is the sat. It's possible that none of this data is correct and won't be until they get a final place to put this thing and leave it there. I've had 'prelim' TLEs for amateur launches that weren't quite right for a while before I had proper ones.

 

[Andrewwski]

32708 is AMC14. It was given the International Designator 2008-011-A, which is 32708. That makes it Object A on Heavens Above.

 

[drdroo]

i looked at the link you sent...it's gibberish ot me..Care to explain what all that means..here's your chance to make a choice. Do you want to be informative or do you wish to be condscending..the choice os yours.

The TLEs are the numbers used to create the 'maps' you're seeing on these sites. It's not a 'real time track' like they're claiming in the true sense, like 'We know with fact it's there', similar to GPS. It's purely data used to create a 'prediction' of where something will be. The only people who really truly know the location of the sat is the people that are in control of it. At best, we have a picture and numbers that could be entirely false.

The other problem we have is a discrepancy between NORAD ID numbers. Celestrak says it's 32708, but yet N2YO's site says it's 32709. The people on NASASpaceflight.com are apparently watching 32708. One is probably part of the launch vehicle, while one is the sat itself.

There's too many variables to know where anything is, until Americom, ILS, Dish, or someone of authority says "Here's where it is". If I were to trust anyones data, I'd trust Celestrak. However, while this thing could be switching orbits, I trust Celestrak on IDing the sat properly and don't necessarily trust where they think it is.

 

[drdroo]

32708 is AMC14. It was given the International Designator 2008-011-A, which is 32708. That makes it Object A on Heavens Above.

Then the N2YO site is tracking the wrong hardware as AMC-14 and the links to the site are wrong.

LIVE REAL TIME SATELLITE AND SPACE SHUTTLE TRACKING

This would be the right link, theoretically.

 

[dishcomm]

My argument is with this. None of us have any idea where this thing is, but we've already seen these links dozens of times. You're basically trying to post fact where there isn't any (13K miles above the earth, 5.5K miles now), based on data that may or may not be accurate. The only people who know really where this thing is, is the people who have control of it. In an Elliptical orbit, it will be further and closer to the land at different times, that's normal.

The reason why I trust Celestrak is pretty simple. Celestrak is the SAME data many of us use for visible satellite views (such as Iridium flares) and in my case Amateur Radio satellite work. Many of us have used Celestrak TLEs for years. When I used to work Amateur Radio sats, that's where I downloaded my daily sets before going out with the laptop.

So in your mind there is no possibilty that the satellite is actually moving?
Yopy have me confused. Yopu say you trust another site's data far more than this one. Yet you use words like "could" and "ahould" rather than "surely" and "definitely".
What irritates me is your cockiness and near condescension that the data, which I innocently thought to be accurate posted on here was dead wrong.
I think it would be best if you discussed this matter with other posters. You seem to make things personal. this is a forum. It isn't personal, it's business.

 

[skyviewmark]

Never a rocket scientist around when you need one..

Just someone explain to me why there is such a disagreement on which object is actually AMC-14. Why n2yo list AMC-14 as 32709 and others believe it is 32708.

 

[Dah-Henny]

I don't know why the alleged Briz-M debris would move higher than the satellite if it stopped the burn early like they claim unless there's more to it.

Logic would seem that the spent Briz-M would not be at 35,718 km, which is where "object A" has apogee. All of this is just speculative horse-biscuits, but makes for good conversation.

 

[kvnfl]

Then the N2YO site is tracking the wrong hardware as AMC-14 and the links to the site are wrong.

LIVE REAL TIME SATELLITE AND SPACE SHUTTLE TRACKING

This would be the right link, theoretically.

What is really confusing is that both linked pages have the disclaimer "This map is showing all satellites as seen on the sky above an elevation of 60°. Satellite debris is not displayed" Is the disclaimer incorrect?

 

[drdroo]

So in your mind there is no possibilty that the satellite is actually moving?

No my disagreement isn't with it moving or not. My disagreement is with the data provided. Proclaimations that the satellite is at any specific altitude or location in the sky just shouldn't be trusted.

Yopy have me confused. Yopu say you trust another site's data far more than this one. Yet you use words like "could" and "ahould" rather than "surely" and "definitely".

I said if I were to trust data, I trust Celestrak over some other website.

What irritates me is your cockiness and near condescension that the data, which I innocently thought to be accurate posted on here was dead wrong.

Because you posted it as some sort of update, as well as suggested the thing was falling out of the sky and/or coming closer to earth. You just received my frustration of others who were doing the same. I do certainly apologize that you may have received more than you deserve.

I think it would be best if you discussed this matter with other posters. You seem to make things personal. this is a forum. It isn't personal, it's business.

It is business, but again, several people have suggested this is GPS and the satellite really 'is' somewhere at that moment in time. This just isn't the case, it 'could be' somewhere (at best), or 'could be' somewhere else.

I do think you're overly emotional about this topic.

 

[drdroo]

Just someone explain to me why there is such a disagreement on which object is actually AMC-14. Why n2yo list AMC-14 as 32709 and others believe it is 32708.

I'm not sure where N2YO got their Keps from that call 32709 AMC-14 and 32708 'Object A'. In the latest Celestrak TLEs, 32709 is Breeze-M R/B, and 32708 is AMC-14.

The TLEs used on N2YO are accurate (in the sense that they're the same ones everyone else is using, anyway). For some reason they don't have the same headers though.

 

[drdroo]

Logic would seem that the spent Briz-M would not be at 35,718 km, which is where "object A" has apogee. All of this is just speculative horse-biscuits, but makes for good conversation.

I agree. If the BRIZ-M got to 35718 km and not the sat, that'd...be rather interesting..

 

[davisdog]

NORAD designates the new Satellite as Object A, and any Rocket Bodies as Object B (and C, D, E if there are more then one). So AMC-14 would be 8011A (Designator 32708) and BREEZE-M R/B would be 8011B (Designator 32709). The "U" just means Unclassified.

Look here for examples of recently Launches that came after this one.

http://celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/tle-new.txt

Directv-11 is 8013A, the Upper Stage is 8013B

GPS-62 is 8012A, the Delta Rocket had 2 stages that acheived orbit and those are 8012B and 8012C.

 

[johnch]

Well if that is right

The orbit of object A is over 22000 miles at its highest and much higher than the listed 15000? miles in the news release. Does this mean that SES is already raising orbit?

JC