going to new Big screen, need advice

[r royer]

I am retired and have been watching dish network on a 20" tv (DISH 50, networks, and dvd ).
I,m almost done converting a 15 X 21 garage into a family room (mostly to relax and watch TV).
I intend to put in a (60 inch Panasonic rear proj LCD PT60LC13 or 14).
I will hook it up to my Aiwa mini with cd, subwoofer and surround speakers.
I'm not very fussy, but every time I ask the store guys about options and what I'll need, etc. I get such a variety of answers that I'm not even sure I'll get a picture anymore.
Will this TV work with my current single receiver dishnetwork system?
I'm sure that PIP etc won't work because I only have the one dish box.
Does the dish network box receive HD? Is there a new box that does? What do I need to make sure I can watch my current stuff, and will it look like garbage if I don't upgrade a whole lot of stuff?
Thanks, Rich

 

[dfergie]

Welcome to SatelliteGuys Rich...Is this tv Hd ready? If so you will be more pleased with an Hd receiver...Dish or E* as it known as currently has 2 one is a model 811 for about 399$ the other is the model 921 which is a dvr (has hard drive to record programs) it dropped dramatically in price within the last 24 hours and is 549$msrp...(you did not mention the model of receiver you have now)

 

[HookedOnTV]

Just a warning... don't be surprised if the picture quality all of a sudden seems terrible. Definately recommend getting an HD capable box if the tv supports it.

 

[r royer]

Yes this TV is HD ready. The receiver I now have is marked 301, what do you mean "don't be surprised if the quality seems terrible?

 

[dfergie]

The 301 is a Sd receiver, with the Hd ready TV you will see artifacts, blockiness etc... you can have it "tuned" but the Pq will still not be stellar. (all the major sat providers compress their signals)

 

[r royer]

So what do I do?
If I spend the bucks for the 811? will I get good PQ on everything SD as well as HD?
Or is there another way to go? All I want to do is watch my normal TV stuff network shows , ball games etc. on a larger screen, with decent sound.

 

[bbriggs]

So what do I do?
If I spend the bucks for the 811? will I get good PQ on everything SD as well as HD?
Or is there another way to go? All I want to do is watch my normal TV stuff network shows , ball games etc. on a larger screen, with decent sound.

I'd suggest you take a stroll over to the home theater SPOT. They have manufacturer-specific threads on all the major TV manufacterers and a wealth of information on picture quality.

I purchased my Toshiba HD-ready (CRT rear-projection) set 2 years ago, and I've not regretted it for a second. The picture is WAY more pleasing to me than my old direct-view analog sets. I get very little of the problems described above. However, my decision on the Toshiba was based on its somewhat better ability to display SD than many HD ready sets.

The 811 will do no better than your 301 on SD. If it were me, I'd look hard at the 921 offer at the new price. A PVR is REALLY nice to have even if you never record anything. Just being able to answer the door, phone, or call to the bathroom without missing anything is a big reward. The second tuner allows you to record something without incapacitating your receiver for another task. And the occasional HD show is SPECTACULAR. The 921 will most likely work for you OTA broadcasts, some of which are in HD now. Very nice!

I will admit to you my experience is with 508, 721, and 811. I finally took the plunge into 921 just today. For my money the 921 is worth several times what the 811 is. 2 sat tuners and PVR really add value.

 

[pacman]

Hi Rich,

I have a 61" RPTV that we have used with a couple of different receivers. If you do a side by side comparison (SD material) of a 27-32" tube TV and a big screen TV both connected to a SD Dish receiver you will swear the smaller TV looks clearer, sharper, crisper (select your favorite word here)... The compression artifacts are more apparent on a big screen - that is what HookedOnTV meant. Now if you can get an HD setup going --- WOW!!! I just got an OTA HDTV receiver and connected it to my 61" HD ready set and the picture quality is INCREDIBLE!! It almost hurts to watch the Dish now with all the compression issues... Now I have to think about the 921 reciever that just dropped in price... Basically if you can, get HDTV. While there isn't as much material in HDTV as I would like, more and more is coming...

 

[AJF]

Rich,

You'll have an HDTV but you won't be getting the full benefits of that TV without an HD source . The 811 is a good receiver but I wouldn't hesitate to go for the 921, especially now that the price has dropped to about half what it originally cost . AND, once you start using it's DVR features, you'll wonder how you ever did without it . I'm very happy with my 921 and my wife is absolutely addicted to it too.

Also, the 921 can up-convert SD programs to HD . While not nearly as good as a true HD picture, many forum members say that it is much better than watching regular SD content .

 

[nippjas]

I have a 50" LCD RP. I am very happy with it. With LCD or DLP you will never have to worry about burn in. In my opinion, big screens, no matter what brand or type of technology, will tend to magnify SD artifacts. Crap in Crap out...You will be able to use picture in picture with your Dish 500, however it would be PiP one screen dish, one screen VCR/DVD/OTA...You would need 2 Dishnetwork receivers or a dual tuner receiver to do PiP Dish/Dish. A 301 will work OK...for the first several weeks I had a 301 connected to my LCD via S-Video...Another user stated you won't notice a difference in SD using a 301 vs an 811...I disagree with that. The 811 allows either Component Video or DVI connection to your Display...I noticed an immediate improvement and even did Split screen comparisons...I even tried up-converting the 301 using a iScan HD unit...The 811 set to 1080i even at SD blows away a 301 which can only display a max 480i. Though as I and the others have said a HDTV receiver is not a requirement to run the display, an enhancement yes but not a requirement.

Pricewise, to buy an 811, if you have been a long time E* sub and have a good history, you can buy a 811 for much much less than the $399 listed earlier. This depends on what the qualification tool (software tool) says you qualify for. E* and retailers have access to this program.

Good luck,
Jason

 

[bbriggs]

My experience with 811 is not the same as yours, and I didn't say you won't notice a difference. The question arises, however, if you do notice a difference which way will it go? Having read many posts on this aspect, everyone's mileage varies. Some say 811 is much worse, you say it is much better, I find it the same. Some say component or DVI makes things worse, you say it's better, I find it the same. Some say projection TVs make things worse, I'm not sure what you find, I find the SD picture to be much better over either of 2 Toshiba CRT RPTV than direct-view analog sets. Finally, as point of fact, the 301 will not display 480i at all on my HD ready sets. It is upconverted to 480p (or, on mine, 540p). Upconversion of that to 1080i is of dubious value, but each person must judge for themselves. Still, I do not wish to attack your observations, it's a good writeup and interesting to read. I just think you've too strongly endorsed the 811 and we need some balance. Perhaps your TV has a really bad line doubler? This surely doesn't help anyone much on making a decision.

I'd like to say I stand by my statement that there is no difference, but I guess I need to qualify that: I don't think you should expect an improvement, nor should you expect degredation. Further, while E* signal could be better on non-premium channels, it is much more tolerable than many cable signals. My concern would be how well the TV handles less than exemplary SD signals than about which E* box to buy - that is why I suggested Home Theater Spot. The original poster states modest needs - network shows and ball games. I think any of the E* boxes will do a similar job. They'll connect right up and work. The quality of the picture will depend on how well the TV can handle a sub-optimal signal. A PVR would be a huge improvement in flexibility, but no better picture. An HD box would offer a huge picture improvement, but only for a fairly limited set of broadcasts at the moment. A 921 covers all your bases.

As I recall, appropriately good customers were offered 811 for $99. I find the $549 921 offer much more appealing. Failing that, I'd go for a 721 while they're still out there. But I should shut up.

 

[nippjas]

My experience with 811 is not the same as yours, and I didn't say you won't notice a difference. The question arises, however, if you do notice a difference which way will it go? Having read many posts on this aspect, everyone's mileage varies. Some say 811 is much worse, you say it is much better, I find it the same. Some say component or DVI makes things worse, you say it's better, I find it the same. Some say projection TVs make things worse, I'm not sure what you find, I find the SD picture to be much better over either of 2 Toshiba CRT RPTV than direct-view analog sets. Finally, as point of fact, the 301 will not display 480i at all on my HD ready sets. It is upconverted to 480p (or, on mine, 540p). Upconversion of that to 1080i is of dubious value, but each person must judge for themselves. Still, I do not wish to attack your observations, it's a good writeup and interesting to read. I just think you've too strongly endorsed the 811 and we need some balance. Perhaps your TV has a really bad line doubler? This surely doesn't help anyone much on making a decision.

I'd like to say I stand by my statement that there is no difference, but I guess I need to qualify that: I don't think you should expect an improvement, nor should you expect degredation. Further, while E* signal could be better on non-premium channels, it is much more tolerable than many cable signals. My concern would be how well the TV handles less than exemplary SD signals than about which E* box to buy - that is why I suggested Home Theater Spot. The original poster states modest needs - network shows and ball games. I think any of the E* boxes will do a similar job. They'll connect right up and work. The quality of the picture will depend on how well the TV can handle a sub-optimal signal. A PVR would be a huge improvement in flexibility, but no better picture. An HD box would offer a huge picture improvement, but only for a fairly limited set of broadcasts at the moment. A 921 covers all your bases.

As I recall, appropriately good customers were offered 811 for $99. I find the $549 921 offer much more appealing. Failing that, I'd go for a 721 while they're still out there. But I should shut up.

Last I heard the 921 has a real tough time with OTA? Most reports I hear state the 921 feels that OTA is optional to record, if at all. So how to you get 480p out of a 301 without the aid of an external scaling unit, most TV's will not up-convert a S-video input or Composite input. DVI is much better than an analog SD input on a fixed pixel display. CRT is not fixed pixel, but I have CRT displays in the house as well...The LCD is a great display. The 811 has issues, but not as many as the 921. I have SD PVR...in my PCTV...I do like the PVR functionality and would buy a 921 if they could fix it...Not that I think the 811 has been fixed completely mind you...but you agree that a 811 can be had cheap, compared to a 921 at $549 that can't handle OTA...I watch more OTA HD than off dish, sorry. Most TV's do not have the capability to scale external sources...please keep that in mind before you make a comment like your TV's line doubler must suck. And again my Hitachi 50V500 LCD REAR PROJECTION display has exceeded all of my expectations.

As you have stated mileage may very...but not everyone thinks the 811 is a complete pile of crap...again we are both stating our opinion.

Jason

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Finally, as point of fact, the 301 will not display 480i at all on my HD ready sets. It is upconverted to 480p (or, on mine, 540p).

The 301 does not output in 480p or 540p. Your TV may do its own upconversion but the 301 does not output at those specs.

 

[Neutron]

Component, DVI, or HDMI is required to get anything above 480i natively. The 301's best output is the S-video port.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

BTW I forgot to quote the Great Don King (cough cough) who once said the following statement...

"Without VOOM your HDTV is just a TV."

I guess you can also say "Without a HD Tuner, your HDTV is just a TV."

 

[nippjas]

And now a word from our sponsors.....

 

[Neutron]

I guess you can also say "Without a HD Tuner, your HDTV is just a TV."

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[nippjas]

I couldn't have said it better myself.

And the problem is...Currently if you want a new in box HDTV receiver and still stay with Dishnetwork...That means the 811 or the 921...which narrows choices dramatically, that is until the new HD boxes are released...And something tells me, in the experience of being a E* sub since 1998, the new boxes will need to go thru a thorough debugging phase.

So by default, for my small writeup below I used the 811, which is the cheapest of the current Dishnetwork HDTV models...So I guess I may not of necessarily used it as an example because I am a biased 811 worshipping disciple and Echostar loyalist....

Jason

 

[Neutron]

It would be the same no matter who you go with. Directv is the same as far as narrow choices for an HD receiver, be it a regular HD receiver like mine or the HD Tivo.

Cable customers are the ones that are screwed the most as far as choice go. You can't pick your HD receiver, you have to go with what the cable company uses, whether it be a Motorolla or Scientific-Atlanta.

 

[t00ld00d]

I've had the Panasonic 60LC13 for about 3 months or so. I'm using 2 dish boxes on it currently, an 811 for HD and a 501 for PVR and PiP. I don't really watch much regular TV, we mainly do movies and football. I've been mostly pleased with the HD content from Dish but HD doesn't always mean HD. Discovery HD is unbelievable, sometimes the CBS HD is unwatchable. When watching SD programming it's the same problem. Some stations look good, others are horrid.

The problem lies in converting the SD to fill the screen. I won't go into details already covered by others in this thread but your level of happiness with the TV/Dish combo is going to be directly related to your TV habits. If you mainly watch DVDs or plan on getting the HD package you should be pleased. If you're mainly watching SD programming you won't be nearly as happy. If you have access to OTA HD that will help as well.