Google watching you watch Dish Network

[mike123abc]

Google Tags TiVo For Set-Top Data - 2009-11-24 05:01:00 | Multichannel News

While this article describes the addition of TiVo DVRs to Google's tracking, it also mentions Dish Network is already providing data.

Launched in 2007, Google TV Ads has served more than 100 billion TV ad impressions to date, the company claims. Google has a deal with Dish Network to sell local ad inventory for 100 networks carried on the satellite service and also sells select national inventory for about a dozen networks, including CBS College Sports, Bloomberg TV, and NBC Universal's CNBC, MSNBC and Syfy.

Essentially they "know" when you skip forward over an ad vs watching it:

Google will combine second-by-second set-top data from TiVo with data from Dish Network, which will let the Web giant track the viewing habits associated with more than 5 million TV sets -- and sell ads with more precision

Also interesting to note that this involves 4 million Dish settop boxes and will add about 1 million TiVo Boxes.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yup they have been doing it for years now. No big surprise here.

 

[Skyhi]

I wonder if they're discovering that people who have DVRs never watch commercials...

 

[priester68]

I do watch commercials. I just watch them at the speed of light on my way back to the program.

 

[mike123abc]

I wonder if we can blame the obnoxiously loud commercials on Google Ads...

I actually watch a few commercials, when using skip forward sometimes a commercial catches my eye and I will go back and watch it... That probably flashes red alert on the tracking software -- a commercial someone went back for!

Other times if I have to do something I will just leave it running commercials while I leave the room (i.e. bathroom break). The system is still inaccurate until they install cameras that track eyeballs in the room...

 

[TheKrell]

Yup they have been doing it for years now. No big surprise here.

They have been doing what for years? I claim what we've heard about before was statistical viewing habits, and not anything approaching the privacy-invasion that this article implies regarding Tivo equipment. Certainly Dish receivers with modems weren't (I hope!) sending back such a huge amount of data as Tivo apparently is. How could they? The non-DVR receivers would be even more problematic, since they would have to store these data in limited memory before uploading it to Dish.

And I am absolutely shocked at the "second-by-second" comment re: Tivo. I would never buy a Tivo box now that I know it's Big Brother-ish behavior. Note that the article does not say Dish receivers can or do record our second-by-second viewing habits. So there is no way advertisers are going to know whether I skip commercials. At least that's my claim.

Even if I got it right, I'm still upset about the formerly-statistical data collection transmogrifying into personally identifiable data gathering. I regard this as an outrageous invasion of my privacy. Is that in the new TOS that I haven't bothered to read recently?

 

[jacmyoung]

They have been doing what for years? I claim what we've heard about before was statistical viewing habits, and not anything approaching the privacy-invasion that this article implies regarding Tivo equipment. Certainly Dish receivers with modems weren't (I hope!) sending back such a huge amount of data as Tivo apparently is. How could they? The non-DVR receivers would be even more problematic, since they would have to store these data in limited memory before uploading it to Dish.

And I am absolutely shocked at the "second-by-second" comment re: Tivo. I would never buy a Tivo box now that I know it's Big Brother-ish behavior. Note that the article does not say Dish receivers can or do record our second-by-second viewing habits. So there is no way advertisers are going to know whether I skip commercials. At least that's my claim.

Even if I got it right, I'm still upset about the formerly-statistical data collection transmogrifying into personally identifiable data gathering. I regard this as an outrageous invasion of my privacy. Is that in the new TOS that I haven't bothered to read recently?

I share your sentiment.

However I suspect the report was inaccurate. As Scott said Google and DISH had their deal some time ago. DISH only provided one of the outlets to place Google ads. I don't recall DISH was providing any viewing data to Google.

This is the first time TiVo is on board with Google, and also the first time I read that TiVo's second by second data mining will be used by Google to enhance the ad program. I doubt DISH's DVRs have reached second by second level but will not be surprised if they can do the same thing the TiVo standalones can.

This news gives me pause as I evaluate my next move. I am with DirecTV for now and glad DirecTV is not part of this, not yet.

 

[digiblur]

I can assure you that if you have a DVR with any provider (cable, satellite, etc) your data is being sold. That's if of course you have it hooked up via ethernet or phone line. I wouldn't worry about it, it's all anonymous data, probably done by zip code and the packages you have. I can care less that someone knows what I watch...just wish I could get a piece of the pie, but oh well it's probably only a few cents a subscriber.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

This news gives me pause as I evaluate my next move. I am with DirecTV for now and glad DirecTV is not part of this, not yet.

I believe that DirecTV collects this information as well, but I am not sure who they sell the data to.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Here is more on this from the past...

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/147868-google-spying-your-viewing.html

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/138039-dish-spying-me.html

 

[jacmyoung]

... but oh well it's probably only a few cents a subscriber.

More likely a few cents per 1,000 subscribers.

 

[mike123abc]

When we had the meeting with Charlie in Dallas, he said the DVRs report back skipped commercials and all recievers report back channel viewing. He was answering a question about the ratings of a channel that was in dispute at the time. He said they knew exactly how much of each channel was being watched, so he knew which channels mattered most to his customers.

What I find more interesting is that there are 4 million Dish DVRs involved. I would think that penetration of DVRs would be higher.

 

[vaylon]

The one thing I don't understand about all this is why Google doesn't kick the Nilson's family's butts with more accurate ratings of TV programs.

Google should put out a list each morning with the previous nights viewing habits and recording habits.
Maybe all the good shows will quit being canceled and all those nasty realty shows will vanish.

 

[lakebum431]

Agree, I could not care less. Hopefully they are reporting exactly what I watch and keeping track of it. That means they will keep the shows that I like and get rid of the ones who's timers I delete after one viewing. Here's to TV becoming more of what I want!

 

[TheKrell]

Here's to TV becoming more of what I want!

What this technology makes possible is not putting out more TV that you want, but rather more TV that "works" for advertisers. You are just a cow to be milked. Your desires are not relevant, other than to manipulate them for the benefit of others.

 

[lakebum431]

What this technology makes possible is not putting out more TV that you want, but rather more TV that "works" for advertisers. You are just a cow to be milked. Your desires are not relevant, other than to manipulate them for the benefit of others.

Are you really that dense? Do you think that TV is really around for your enjoyment now? No, it is around to make money. If this makes it so the advertisers know what I am willing to watch then so be it. I'd much rather have more options of things I want than things I don't.

 

[TheKrell]

Are you really that dense?

Of course not. The difference between you and me is I resent being milked, while you act as though you enjoy it. I really go out of my way to avoid watching those commercials, such as putting the receiver in pause for 10 minutes, so I can skip over them. If I find myself unwillingly viewing a commercial, I then go out of my way to avoid buying that product, even if I think it's neat, because I know the price is inflated to pay for the advertising I hate so much. I'm the advertisers' worst nightmare. I've got money, but they can't have it.

You might wonder what I do when a Dish Network commercial comes on. Well, I skip over those too, but nevertheless continue paying Dish over $100/mo for service. This is an inconsistency I suffer if I (or more precisely my family) want satellite service. Dish in turn, in addition to it's own costs, pays Big Bucks out to content providers in carriage agreements... I am hopeful that the old TV business model will die off completely some day. Then we'll be left with a pay TV model where we really do buy only what we want, and nothing else. No more surreptitious milking. Just obvious above-board milking.

 

[Grandpa J]

Broadcasters make money by selling advertising time. Rating are used not to determine whats popular but how many "eye balls" (an industry term) are watching a channel at a given time. While ratings are compiled from just a small sample of views, tests have shown that if more ratings boxes were use the results would be about the same.

That said, DVRs have made this old method of checking "eye balls" even less actuate than it was pre DVR days. Currently advertisers are working with producers to insert products into story lines. What used to be called limited Product Placement is now being tried on a broader scale due to DVRs. You know someone like advertiser are needed to pay the costs. So this becomes very important. Further, the above the line guilds (WGA, DGA, SAG and AFTRA) are looking at this placement situation too as their members don't get extra pay for this placements and some may conflict with the talents endorsement deals.

In the end it may be that narrow based cable channels or pay channels will surpass broad based network channels as advertisers see that they are losing "eye balls" because of DVR skipping. Yes the DVR has/is changing the old producer/broadcaster money making model. Most of us love DVRs advertisers don't.

 

[Grandpa J]

Mr "The Krell"

I worked in the industry for 43 years before retiring. I too skip commercials. But I realized that by doing it sooner or later that we will be paying for what is now "free" channels (free is really advertiser paid channels). We may beat the system for now but it will catch up to us one day.

However, it may not be right to call it "being milked" as we both are getting a free ride on the advertisers dollar. I know I did not work for nothing in fact I was very well paid, I don't think you don't work for free either. Advertiser's money as well as theater box office and DVD sales allow me to make a "Hollywood salary" that is much more money than the high end national average. I don't think advertisers/commercials are miking us, but as I noted I skip them too.

 

[Bob Haller]

well tivo reported that wardrobe malfunction a couple years ago what was it? during super bowl? I dont like football............