Help me convince my condo board to allow dishes!!!!!!

[lostcause]

NEED HELP!! I live in a condo complex where currenty dishes are not allowed, although in the past they were allowed, so several people already have dishes. The board has appointed a committee to review this policy and I volunteered to research the issue and make recommendations. I think I have an uphill battle though since a couple of people on the committee are very strict "by the book" people and they are against it just because "it's written." (it's almost like the line in Life of Brian... Brian: mum, why aren't women allowed to go to stonings? Mum: It's written, that's why!!!) They also dont' care about satellite and think the dishes are just an eyesore.

Naturally I want them allowed, even though with voom dying I'm switching to cable.

We have about 50 buildings and they are all 2 story with slanted roofs with shingles on them. It's not like a highrise. It's a very large spread out complex, more like what are known as garden apartments rather than large condo buildings.

The main issues they have against them are

1. aesthetics. A lot of people find them ugly. They are also concerned that if they are explicitly allowed, we will suddenly have dishes all over the place and they will make the complex look ugly. Also, they don't like the idea of cables running all over the place.

2. Safety. We're in a hurricane zone and they are concerned about dishes flying all over during a storm. Also, how do insurance companies handle damage done by dishes in a condo/apt building that allows them?

3. Structural damage. Concern over damage done by the install process and the holes left behind once the dishes are removed.

4. Property value. I guess this is a combination of all the above. Does property value suffer if dishes are all over the place?

These are their primary concerns.

As for aesthetics, personally I think that nowadays you see dishes all over the place and they are common. Some people despise anything modern and think they are just ugly contraptions. Unfortunately, these types of people are often the most vocal in meetings and are the only ones that get heard.

As for safety, I was under the impression that if properly installed, dishes are rated at 120mph winds. Can anyone confirm this? Any documentation you can point me to?

As for structural damage and property value, I really don't know.

Given that the FCC legally allows anyone to install a dish on their patio as long as they face the right direction, I think it's unfair to not allow others to also install dishes. I don't think it's right to force those without a southern view to either choose adelphia cable(blech!!) or rabbit ears.

Are there any other options? For example, our complex is very large and has about 50 buildings. Each building has about 15 units. I know there are ways to feed an entire building like this with one or two dishes, but how feasible would it really be? How expensive would it be to install something like this? I personally don't like this idea because it would make the association responsible for installing it. I think we have better things to spend our money on that providing satellite services to some people that might actually prefer cable or nothing at all. I think whoever wants a dish should simply be able to get one, and if they don't want one, fine.

Personally, I think dishes should be allowed as long as they are professionally installed by a certified installer (no do-it-yourself installs unless the person is certified), and the cables are run unobtrusively and the dishes are mounted as unobtrusively and inconspicuously as possible.

Anyways, I need suggestions, opinions and information from anyone willing to give them. I have 3 days to put this together, so any help will be greatly appreciated. If there are any reports anyone knows of concerning these things like property values, insurance, wind speed ratings for dishes, etc... they would be very helpful.

 

[Mr Tony]

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html says they can't ban dishes unless they are over 1meter

yes, they can restrict where you can put it...but if you have a southern view, they can't really stop you from mouting it on your deck.
When I lived in an apt, they tried this..no holes on the deck or going into the apartment.

Dish in a bucket worked good and the air conditioning slot had enough room to get 3 lines through

 

[lostcause]

Right, but how about those who don't have a southern view? There is not an issue with people who can install them in their patios. The issue is with those who don't have a clear southern view from their patios and would need to mount them outside.

 

[Mr Tony]

As for aesthetics, personally I think that nowadays you see dishes all over the place and they are common. Some people despise anything modern and think they are just ugly contraptions. Unfortunately, these types of people are often the most vocal in meetings and are the only ones that get heard.

you hit the nail on the head there. I deal with a HOA so I know what its like...and I have 5 dishes on my roof

 

[lostcause]

Yep...some people like to complain just for the sake of complaining about stuff like that. You're lucky though A HOA can't really do much if you have a house and your roof is exclusively yours. Unfortunately in a condo the roof is considered common area and unless the association allows it, we're SOL.

 

[Mr Tony]

Right, but how about those who don't have a southern view? There is not an issue with people who can install them in their patios. The issue is with those who don't have a clear southern view from their patios and would need to mount them outside.

unless they can use a pole to mount it to I think they might be SOL
unless they can use the roof

 

[lostcause]

unless they can use a pole to mount it to I think they might be SOL
unless they can use the roof

exactly the dilemma I'm in. I'm currently in a position to try and change this policy. What I need is help in how to best present it and convince the board to allow it despite objections of the screeching harpies and militant condo commandos who think that their neighbors dish across the way somehow infringes on their right to live in peace!!!

Fortunately, we haven't had those people show themselves yet, but as soon as this issue comes up in the next meeting, I fully expect at least a couple of them to start screeching.

They have asked me to research the issue though, so I'm going to do my best to convince them to allow the dishes. The objections that I have already been made aware of are the ones I listed above.

Personally, I don't think they are a big deal and certainly not enough to disallow the dishes. I think the right to watch whatever you want, and the fact that dishes are now commonplace pretty much outweigh those objections, the biggest being that some people think they're ugly. Hell, I think some cars are ugly but they're still allowed to park them next to mine...

 

[Dknow]

I had the same problem with my condo association so two years ago I ran for the board and won. Now I sold to the board how ugly it would be if everyone had dishes on their deck who face south. To make a long story short, I got the association to pay for installing all of the necessary dishes for all DBS companies on each phase of the condo buildings with 16 way switches in the cable closet. Each condo has dual RG-6 running into each unit so it is working great. RUN FOR OFFICE

 

[carload]

The only unaddressed item from your original question is safety (as in insurance). Think flower pots. Think how much damage heavy flower pots, or the drip-catchers they sit on, could do in a storm. Does your association require insurance for owners who put flower pots on their balconies? If not, you can't single out dishes as as unusual safety hazard requiring additional insurance.

What I need is help in how to best present it and convince the board to allow it despite objections of the screeching harpies ...

If you know anyone who's a lawyer, I'd have a very informal, two-minute talk with him/her. Then you can present the "findings" of your discussion and the FCC regulations and tell the condo folks that the association needs to draft something that obeys the law in allowing dishes or it will eventually raise its fees to cover a lawsuit it'll lose in the near future. When the dish-haters hollar, tell'em to call the FCC to complain.

You may want to present Dknow's wise solution as an alternative.

 

[lostcause]

I had the same problem with my condo association so two years ago I ran for the board and won. Now I sold to the board how ugly it would be if everyone had dishes on their deck who face south. To make a long story short, I got the association to pay for installing all of the necessary dishes for all DBS companies on each phase of the condo buildings with 16 way switches in the cable closet. Each condo has dual RG-6 running into each unit so it is working great. RUN FOR OFFICE

That's one of the options I am considering. Tell me a little more about the system you put in.

I'm thinking we could install a dish from each company on each building with a multiplexer switch of some kind, then just connect each unit to whatever dish they want service from. Say I wanted to do something like this, who would I contact? I'm assuming it would have to be a 3rd party company that could handle directv, dish, and whatever other companies might spring up? We're already wired for cable, so I don't know how that would work with the cable wiring. I suppose we could mount the dishes near the cable junction box and just use those cables??

 

[spahoose]

Whose cable?

I haven't read the FCC regs lately but, I think I remember reading that if HOA does not provide signal from one source or another then you have the right to provide your own, as long as it is not in a common area. You stated that units are supplied with cable already, who supplied them?

As far as safety goes, how much more dangerous is a flying dish then a roof full of tile shingles. Contact one of your local sat installers and research non-penetrating dish mounts, no damage to building if done correctly.

 

[lostcause]

I haven't read the FCC regs lately but, I think I remember reading that if HOA does not provide signal from one source or another then you have the right to provide your own, as long as it is not in a common area. You stated that units are supplied with cable already, who supplied them?

Right, but it's specifically the common areas I'm having problems with. I want to make sure that even those who don't have a southern view from their patio can still put up a dish on the roof, which is considered a common area, or some other area that has a clear LOS to the bird. Many condos allow this, and some don't. It's up to them. I want to make sure they allow them again like they used to in the past.

As for cable, the association currently doesn't provide anything. When the complex was built, it was wired for cable. If we want cable, we call adelphia, they come out and connect the coax to their junction box outside and bill the resident directly. The condo board does not provide anything.


Just so I'm clear on this, they are NOT trying to ban people who have a southern view from installing a dish inside their exclusive patios. What has happened is a temporary ban on installing any new dishes until they decide what to do with those who do not have a clear view and would need to mount a dish on the roof if they wanted satellite. I want to make sure this is not a permanent ban, or to find some other solution like the one mentioned above of feeding an entire building with one dish. This way everyone can choose the service they want and aren't forced to use a service they don't want.

 

[cdru]

I haven't read the FCC regs lately but, I think I remember reading that if HOA does not provide signal from one source or another then you have the right to provide your own, as long as it is not in a common area. You stated that units are supplied with cable already, who supplied them?

The ruling have been that if the association provides the service at no significant increase in cost then they can prohibit the installation of the dish. If they provide a Dish or DirecTV hookup like the one described a few posts above with no additional fee or even a slight fee (possibly as part of dues), then they can prohibit you from installing your dish. If they only offer Dish, but you want DirecTV (or vice versa), then they can't prohibit you from installing your own dish (<1m, exclusively controlled property). If only cable TV is provided, then they can't stop dishes from being installed just because an alternative is offered. It has to be the same service.

Another possibility is to have an outside company come in to do the installtion as well as maitenance. Many apartment communities do this so that the apt management doesn't have to worry about the technical side of things. The residents are happy because they pay the same (or maybe slightly more) for service but don't have dishes all over the place. Plus often the Dishes are higher quality/larger so they are a little less prone to rain fade.

 

[Mr Tony]

very true cdru

I know where I use to live, they had a 36" on the roof so rain fade was almost non existant

However, it was only for 119

They could put 2 dishes on roof (for 119 & 110) and combine them inside without issue and distribute to the condos

 

[regisma]

Hi,

Or you install it in the balcony and if they complain you just put the FCC law under their nose, the law is the law.

That's my two cents.

Reg

 

[lostcause]

regisma, the problem is not installing it in the balcony. The problem is making sure that people whose balcony doesn't face the right direction can still have the choice of installing a dish if they want it. This means they would have to install it outside or on the roof in a common area.

 

[dishjockey]

Lostcause The wiring currently in the buildings needs to be evaluated before you can assume that you can put one dish up to feed an entire building.
Cable doesn't work the same as satellite you need a homerun to each reciever. for ti-vo's you need 2.
I would suggest checking the yellow pages for satellite dealers in your area most will come out and evaluate your situation for free .They may even pitch it to the board if they find it lucrative enough.

 

[regisma]

Hi,

Does the FCC rule (Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule) also apply to Canadian?

thanks

Reg

 

[lostcause]

Lostcause The wiring currently in the buildings needs to be evaluated before you can assume that you can put one dish up to feed an entire building.
Cable doesn't work the same as satellite you need a homerun to each reciever. for ti-vo's you need 2.
I would suggest checking the yellow pages for satellite dealers in your area most will come out and evaluate your situation for free .They may even pitch it to the board if they find it lucrative enough.

Aren't there multiplexers that can handle this? I thought there was a 30" dish that with the right multiplexer can do just that. Someone earlier in this thread even mentioned that this is what he did in his condo complex.

Anyways, my preference is to convince them to allow whoever wants a dish to install their own individual one. Now more than ever since it looks like dishnet is taking over voom's programming.

I would love to have a dish install asap if this is the case.

So, based on the info in my first post, what can I use to convince the board to allow individual dishes? Hell, the association right now is so underfunded that there is no reason they should have to spend any money to install a system like this. If someone wants sat, let them get their own.

Help me convince them!!

 

[discostu420]

I agree with reg