Hoa

[Jared Twomey]

Please read what I said. If an association you joined when you purchased your home thus agreeing to follow their rules, has a rule that requires you to seek approval, can enforce that rule. What they can't enforce is saying no to your request.

We read what you said, and we are telling you, you are wrong on this.

The HOA CAN NOT make you ask for approval first. What they can ask is that you tell them you are putting up a dish. But, that process can not cause any type of delay. So I would read that as... calling them up, telling them, and then hanging up before they have any time to object.

Where do I get this you ask... off the FCC OTARD Fact Sheet

FCC Fact Sheet on Placement of Antennas

"Although a simple notification process might be permissible, such a process cannot be used as a prior approval requirement and may not delay or increase the cost of installation. The burden is on the association to show that a notification process does not violate our rule."


And the thing about them harassing an individual person... I would welcome the challenge. I'd let them do their thing for a few months,meanwhile documenting everything, taking video, pictures, ect... then I'd hand them over to my lawyer and sue the HOA for anything you can squeeze out of them.
You can't harass someone for not following stupid HOA rules, when there are FCC regulations in place that overrule the HOA... and some HOA's need to learn that.

 

[lakebum431]

Please read what I said. If an association you joined when you purchased your home thus agreeing to follow their rules, has a rule that requires you to seek approval, can enforce that rule. What they can't enforce is saying no to your request. They can try to tell you to hide your dish and you can tell them to pound sand.

It's easy for people who don't live in associations to say "tell them to go fu*k themselves" but until you buy a house in an association and read the fine print, you don't understand. I was like that until I moved to AZ and found out the hard way. Associations are small governments and in most states are recognizes as that.

WRONG! Did you read the rest of the thread?

Let's take this to the extreme. What if you join an association that has a "rule" that says you must murder 1 person each day to live in this neighborhood? Obviously that rule is against a federal law therefore uninforceable in a court of law. This is the same principle. The "rule" that they are trying to make you follow is against a federal law therefore making it uninforceable.

 

[LER]

Please read what I said. If an association you joined when you purchased your home thus agreeing to follow their rules, has a rule that requires you to seek approval, can enforce that rule. What they can't enforce is saying no to your request. They can try to tell you to hide your dish and you can tell them to pound sand.

It's easy for people who don't live in associations to say "tell them to go fu*k themselves" but until you buy a house in an association and read the fine print, you don't understand. I was like that until I moved to AZ and found out the hard way. Associations are small governments and in most states are recognizes as that.

The FCC rule EXPLICITLY overrides all Rules, Local Zoning, Etc.

The HOA will NOT win that one.

 

[Mr Tony]

The issue though is the OP hasn't answered the question if its a common place where its mounted. If it is, then the FCC rules are hindered as it has to be his exclusive area

I have a unique situation as I live in a HOA and am the VP of said HOA. I also have 7 dishes set up (6 footer, 2 Primestar dishes, 2 30" and a D500)..Our rules state you can put the dish on the deck (any part of it since the homeowner owns it) or on the edge of the roof (which is owned by the association. The way the townhouses here are set up, this works for everyone as the trees are no where high enough to block the view. They tried (before I was on it) to invoke a one dish rule which I showed them the info (and at the time told them that was stupid as Minneapolis locals were "split" between 110 & 61.5) and they changed the rules to the above.

They havent said anything about the 6 footer D) but unless the OP has it on his exclusive area he might have some issues. All they can do is ask him to move it

 

[LER]

True, Iceberg. I'm assuming Single-Family residential here (like the HOA I'm in, and on the board of).

LER

 

[wolfjc]

HOA and moving dish

In my HOA they did a roof replacement and I had my dish on the front of my roof.
Now the front of my house does NOT face the street and there for you couldn't see my dish from the street.
But when I had to remount my dish they, the board, wanted me to put in the back.
I told them I did not care where it was as long as it could see the sat.
But in this new location you can see all the dishes that I and every one else has.
So there are now 4 very visible dishes where before you had walk up a sidewalk in front of the unit and look up to the roof to see the dishes.

 

[EVAC41]

I'm sorry I must not be thinking clearly. What is a "HOA"

 

[BigTimMN]

Home Owners Association.

If you "Hate" the Association, or they are Nazi's, etc etc. you hate YOURSELF, and YOU are a Nazi.

All Homeowners have an equal say in the association, if you do not like something, run for the board of directors, Go to the Meetings, make yourself HEARD. Regardless, You are the association, they are not out to get you, they are trying to make your community the best for EVERYONE, you may not like some of the rules, but i bet you appreciate others that your nieghbor may not

Our assocaition, had to keep amending the rules so we could function, we couldnt even get 25% (now we only need 10%) of the homeowners to attend the annual meeting/board elections, and we practically have to BEG to get people to even serve on our board. We have 6 positions and close to 100 units, and this year we had 11 units represented at our annual meeting, the 6 board members, myself, and 5 others.

Its Sad, that most residents think the HOA is like your landlord and dont even realize what it truly is.

 

[Voyager6]

Home Owners Association.

If you "Hate" the Association, or they are Nazi's, etc etc. you hate YOURSELF, and YOU are a Nazi.

All Homeowners have an equal say in the association, if you do not like something, run for the board of directors, Go to the Meetings, make yourself HEARD. Regardless, You are the association, they are not out to get you, they are trying to make your community the best for EVERYONE, you may not like some of the rules, but i bet you appreciate others that your nieghbor may not

Our assocaition, had to keep amending the rules so we could function, we couldnt even get 25% (now we only need 10%) of the homeowners to attend the annual meeting/board elections, and we practically have to BEG to get people to even serve on our board. We have 6 positions and close to 100 units, and this year we had 11 units represented at our annual meeting, the 6 board members, myself, and 5 others.

Its Sad, that most residents think the HOA is like your landlord and dont even realize what it truly is.

Most people that have been involved with a HOA find out the hard way how evil they can become. Please read what HOA's and their management companies and lawyers are doing to homeowners across the US. Homeowners Associations: News

 

[Lord_Vader]

Thanks for everyone's contributions.

To answer the common area question, I have a single house. I have 2 dishes, one is one the side / partially front of the property and the other is in the rear. Both are somewhat secluded in the tree line.

Thanks again for the advice. It helps to get all sides / viewpoints of the issue.

 

[Mr Tony]

if you own the house (as in the walls and roof) then the FCC Otard rule applies and you are in the clear

 

[richiephx]

I would think that, after two years, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on because they failed to comply with their own rules to begin with. I would also check with other homeowners in the association to see how and where others have mounted their dishes and ask them if they were included in a similar action as yours.

 

[hemway]

Trust me when I say I’m not a fan of associations. I’m just speaking from experience because I have had my share of battles with them and finally bowed to the philosophy of “if you can’t beat them, join them.” I’ve fought this battle both as a board member (on the side of the homeowners) and as a private homeowner. I’ve used the FCC document to tell the board that they can’t restrict someone from installing an antenna but was told by a lawyer who specializes in association law that they, associations, can't restrict standard antenna installations but can enforce any documentation process requirements that an association has in place.

Any specific prohibitions that may be in any association documents (i.e. rules that say no antennas) are voided by a standard clause that is usually included in all association documents that states that it nullifies any rules that are in violation of local, state, and federal law (this also prevents an association from creating a "rule" that says you must murder 1 person each day to live in this neighborhood even though I wish it was enforceable)

The FCC rules state “The rule allows local governments, community associations and landlords to enforce restrictions that do not impair the installation, maintenance or use of the types of antennas described above, as well as restrictions needed for safety or historic preservation.” This is right out of the FCC fact sheet.

All I’m saying is that if your association has a rule stating you are required to notify them of any changes, they can require you to submit the documents. This does not violate the FCC rule nor is it in violation of any laws. If they try to attach a fee to your filing, that is a different story. HOA's are a different breed of animal that a bunch of lawyers created and states gave power to (this is slowly changing because of bad associations).

Like I said previously, most ‘good’ associations only do this so they can fairly enforce all rules the association has in place. If you feel and can prove that they are trying to enforce this rule on you but not on someone else in the community, then they are harassing you and you have the right to take legal actions against them.

I myself have two dishes and one OTA antennas on my house and I know it pisses off at least one of my neighbors but because I have my ‘documentation’ filed with the association, there isn’t a thing he or the association can do because I have met the document requirements of the association, a thing I have flung in his face a number of times.

If you want to save time and a few headaches, my suggestion would be fill out the document, attach a copy of the FCC regulations to it, highlighting the part about no restrictions or fees, and send it to them. If they say no or give you crap, call a lawyer because you are up against an out of control association that needs to be knocked down a few pegs.

 

[dishcomm]

I've had DISH installed for about 2 years now. My HOA finally decided to send me a letter saying that I never "applied" for "permission" to install a DISH on my property. To be honest, I didn't know that I had to.

Now they are asking for me to fill out the application, submit photos and a survey showing where I "plan to install the DISH" along with a $50 fee.

I was looking around and found a post with the link from the FCC. FCC Fact Sheet on Placement of Antennas

From reading this, it seems to me I should politely tell them they don't have the authority to require me to do this.

Thoughts / advice?

TIA

that is correct..make three copies. one for the board president ,.one for the a$$hole that sent the the letter and one for your lawyer if you have one....Then write and MAIL ..NO EMAIL a letter to the board and the developer explaining that if you are harrassed(use this exact word) any longer about you dish which is in full compliance with FCC regulations , you'll be filing a lawsuit against them jointly and serverally...
That will shut them up....and if you can , get an attorney who specializes in this stuff, preferably a shark, and pay him the $100 to send that letter I described above using his letterhead.
If you may have the inkling i am a bit edgy about this, that is an understatement. I am a strong advocate of private property rights. I am well aware there are certain limits to those rights. And I am also a strrong advoate of quality of life issues. But this one really gets me. Not just because i make a living servicing satellites but the principle of it all.. The damn FCC , the federal friggin govt says what's legal. And still we get these blue haired old biddies tying to tell people what they say goes...
ok where's the tylenol?

 

[dishcomm]

The advice above is all good, but assumes that you own the outside of your house/building/roof. If, on the other hand, you own your dwelling in a condominium association, your rights are more limited.

that is true..he has to take that into account

 

[dishcomm]

As a former president and vice-president of a couple of different HOA's in the greater Phoenix area, I've had to deal with this subject both as a member of the board and as a member of the association.

You need to read the CC&R's and any other association documents you were given when you purchased your home because if the laws in your state are anything like they are here in AZ, when you purchased your home you entered into an agreement to abide by the rules of the association. If they require that you submit a request to install you must follow the requirements. In the document you referenced it states:

"The rule allows local governments, community associations and landlords to enforce restrictions that do not impair the installation, maintenance or use of the types of antennas described above, as well as restrictions needed for safety or historic preservation."

According to an association lawyer we checked with, if the association rules require that a homeowner get association approval before adding or making a change to your home, the association can require a request be submitted. Most associations won’t give you any problems with installing the dish because of the rule.

In your case, what is probably happening is the association’s management company, if you use one, is auditing the association to make sure everyone is following the rules and will ask a members to submit a request for any changes they made, something that according to the rules you should have done, so all homeowners are in compliance with the rules. It is done to protect them and you. This way they can't be accused of randomly enforcing the rules. I know first hand because they did it to me when I was on the board.

Most associations won't mess with saying no to any antenna requests that meet the limitations in your document. They are just doing it to keep all of the records up to date and everyone in compliance with the rules.

With that said, there are some associations out there that are like the Gestapo. If you have one of those you need to do what I did and get involved in the association and fight to take your association back.

Ok that' svery nice...but the FCC regs say otherwise. Frequent use of word "unreasonable" is present.. The term unreasonable is deliberately ambiguous. Because the burden of proof falls upn the HOA or mgmnt company, the home owner gets to decide what HE believes to be "unreasonable"....i asked an attorney about this . And these are that person's observations. Not verbatim But this is in the ball park.
In any event, the FCC regs take precedence in this matter.
What really frosts me is this is purely a subjective aesthetics issue. A select but vocal and involved few seem to think that the words satellite and dish cannot be mentioned in church.While others just ask if possible the dish be placed in the rear of the home...So there ya have it..

 

[hemway]

What's so ambiguous about asking that you submit a form saying you have a dish so they have a record? They can't say no and they can't charge a fee. They are asking for a document that lets them know you have one.

This is allowed per the FCC. If you don't believe me, buy a house that is within an association and put up a dish. When they ask that you submit a document stating you have one and it's location, refuse, then go to court and see what happens. It is not unreasonable to ask for a document that shows where the dish is located.

 

[Lord_Vader]

What's so ambiguous about asking that you submit a form saying you have a dish so they have a record? They can't say no and they can't charge a fee. They are asking for a document that lets them know you have one.

This is allowed per the FCC. If you don't believe me, buy a house that is within an association and put up a dish. When they ask that you submit a document stating you have one and it's location, refuse, then go to court and see what happens. It is not unreasonable to ask for a document that shows where the dish is located.

I'm going to call the guy to make sure I understand what is expected. I will then do as you have suggested and just mail the form back without the fee. If they contact me about the fee, I'll just return the FCC form.

 

[Voyager6]

I've had DISH installed for about 2 years now. My HOA finally decided to send me a letter saying that I never "applied" for "permission" to install a DISH on my property. To be honest, I didn't know that I had to.

Now they are asking for me to fill out the application, submit photos and a survey showing where I "plan to install the DISH" along with a $50 fee.

I was looking around and found a post with the link from the FCC. FCC Fact Sheet on Placement of Antennas

From reading this, it seems to me I should politely tell them they don't have the authority to require me to do this.

Thoughts / advice?

TIA

What's so ambiguous about asking that you submit a form saying you have a dish so they have a record? They can't say no and they can't charge a fee. They are asking for a document that lets them know you have one.

This is allowed per the FCC. If you don't believe me, buy a house that is within an association and put up a dish. When they ask that you submit a document stating you have one and it's location, refuse, then go to court and see what happens. It is not unreasonable to ask for a document that shows where the dish is located.

If you re-read the OP's post, you will note that the HOA is saying that prior approval is needed to install a dish along with a fee. This is what everyone is railing against. The OP's HOA demands are against FCC regulations and that needs to be brought to their attention. A HOA has no need to know if you have a dish or not. This is just too intrusive. If the dish is on your property and not in a common area, the HOA can do nothing about it except request that the dish be placed, if possible, in a less visible place on your property. Demanding paperwork to approve of your dish location is to me very unreasonable.

 

[Zero327]

Tell 'em to kiss your ass! HOA's are Nazi's, the whole lot of em!

What he said. *points up* The HOA is on MY payroll, not the other way around. They do what I want them to do, or they get fired.