Install Question

garth

New Member
Jan 6, 2004
4
0
Hello all,

New DISH install question.

Background: I have had DirectTV for seven years at my house. Original RCA equipment from '96. Installed myself, roof install, pointing between a small gap in the 'canopy' of trees that are to my south (and belong to my neighbor). Always had a low 90's signal (on 1-100 scale). This past summer I noticed some degredation due to the 'gap' in the trees closing due to growth. So I took one tree (with neighbor's permission) out to help. Signal is marginally better. (high 80's) Wanted my locals and decided to upgrade to a DVR. Felt DISH had the better system so got it ordered.

Yesterday: Installer shows up to install DISH 500. Mounts it on my mast and is unable to get over 100 on signal (1-125 scale). He remounts it further back and higher. Gets 102 on signal meter but can only get Sat110 to lock. Sat119 would not. He remounts it again to point in between the trees. He gets 111 on signal for both Sats. Sat110 will lock, Sat119 will not. He switched LNB's and receivers, tweaked the point, still nothing.

2-1/2 hours and 6 holes in my facia and I still don't have my DISH! He's rescheduled and wants to bring a tripod with a 10 foot pole for my roof so he can clear the trees. Truthfully, there really is no other good spot on my property to get a good view of the sats. The 'gap' is all I've got.

Does this sound legit to you? Does this guy know what he is doing? Is it common to have a signal that high but not be able to bring in both birds?

Thanks for the help.
 

Mike500

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 7, 2003
1,338
0
Thiepval
Being a professional installer for high end customers, who want the best quality, I have come upon this situation several times. 119 is very low in the sky at your location.

In one case, the customer next door had DNSC attempt to complete an install. Holes, hole, and more holes are present on the roof with patches covered with roofing cement. The dish is still on the roof in front of the house, but as the neghbor told my customer, was still unconnected. There was evidently no line of sight.

For my customer, I knew, from the very beginning that I would not be able to mount on the roof, on the house, or on the lower gable end. This I knew since I had sighted (using a Suunto clinometer) from the ground up past the lines in close proximity to possible mounting locations and determined that any such mounting would not clear the tops of the trees. It was very important to note that both the 110 and 119 elevation angles must be sighted.

Using a tripod, as you hinted as your installer would do, I attempted and got a signal from the ground right over the house, in front of the house, and at the extreme corner on the customer's lot. There I mounted the customer's dish. It exactly points through a 10 foot gap between two tall trees.

The customers tells me, during a current wiring upgarde job I performed, that his dish is still working fine.

I do not know your particular lot, but the ground pole may be your only option, if the line of sight can clear the top of your house, or if a line of sight can clear in front of your house.
 

garth

New Member
Jan 6, 2004
4
0
Thanks Mike, I appreciate the response. As the guy took my new equipment when he left yesterday, do you know of a way I could get the dishpointing info for 110 and 119 from my location? Is there a website that works like the menus on the equipment?

The installer was using 33 degreees for both of them.
 

gpflepsen

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Sep 8, 2003
3,292
296
SE NE
http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/zip/technology/azielevation.zip

Try this. It is exaclty like a receiver's "point dish" menu page.

Right click and save then unzip.

You can also go here http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/installation/azimuth/index.shtml and look your angles up on a chart.
 

Mike500

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 7, 2003
1,338
0
Thiepval
garth said:
Thanks Mike, I appreciate the response. As the guy took my new equipment when he left yesterday, do you know of a way I could get the dishpointing info for 110 and 119 from my location? Is there a website that works like the menus on the equipment?

The installer was using 33 degreees for both of them.

Post your zip code and we'll post your look angles.

I have a device with a horizontal lalaser that I tilt to the skew and elevation angle that I then project in the azmuth direction for a particular location. At night, it shows exactly where the trees are.

Here is a special tool that I had made for my location that determines line of sight for my most difficult installs. I can mount it on a camera tripod and see exactly where the trees or other obstructions are for a specific mounting position.

http://www.gourmet-ent.com/products/sat_ext.html
 

garth

New Member
Jan 6, 2004
4
0
Post your zip code and we'll post your look angles.

I was able to use the link provided by gpflepsen to the Windows app which emulates the pointer software. For my zip (49525) it comes up as Azimuth 223, Elev. 32, Skew 117. (Selecting the Dish500 box)

I used SatFinder and input my latitude and longitude (43n00, 85w30) and got the following:

Sat 119- Azimuth 230.4, Elevation 30
Sat 110- Azimuth 220.0, Elevation 34.5

So this shows the two birds at about 10 degrees apart (on the horizontal).

I like your idea of a laser. I just got one of those "StraightLine" Laser Levels for Christmas. I might mount it to my camera tripod and give it a go.

Thanks.
 

slanich

Member
Supporting Founder
Oct 21, 2003
10
0
garth, I built a line-of-sight tool using a camera tripod, a 3' bubble level, a compass, a protractor, and a straw. Tape the straw to the protractor at the degree mark that corresponds to the satellite elevation at your location. Tape the protractor/straw combo to the bubble level, and then tape the whole shebang to the tripod platform. Finally, tape the compass to the front of the level, making sure the edge of the compass is parallel with the level. Point the device to the correct azimuth for your location, level the tripod, and squat down and sight through the straw. If you see clear sky throught the straw, you are golden. This worked great for me, I was able to find the ONLY clear LOS on my property.

Steve
 

Mike500

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 7, 2003
1,338
0
Thiepval
You can actually make a device with the correct skew and elevation, along with a compass and level. Mounting this on a tripod will lead to better accuracy. The sight can be a piece of clear plastic with a line on it reflecting the satellite arc. Two vertical marks on this line can reflect the 10 degrees separation between 110 and 119 as calculated depending on the sight radius. This is called a simple collimator, light in an aircraft gun sight. Depending on how precise everything is made, aligned, and used, this fevice will allow the user to determine correctly if a particular position has line of sight.
 

garth

New Member
Jan 6, 2004
4
0
Thanks, everyone, for the replies. As soon as the blizzard conditions around here subside (grrrr... 10-20 below wind chill, a foot of snow) I'm going to buld my tripod sight and check all over my property for the "sweet spot"
 

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