Is Dish ever going to add any more channels?

[TNGTony]

In the interest of fairness to the channels Dish has thad Direct doesn't only listing the shopping channels (BTW Direct has its share of shopping channels Dish doesn't)

NBA TV is available on the sports pack, AEP and the NBA package on Dish.
If the NFL network agreed to a similar set-up, the channel would be on Dish before the sound of the approval finished echoing in the conference room.

Fox Reality will soon be wasting space on Dish. I believe that since Fox owns DirecTV they got a DBS exclusive on this channel for 6 months.

Other "basic" channels on Dish not on DirecTV.
International Music Feed.
Si TV
Is Mun2 as part of their regular basic DitercTV line-up now (not just "para todos")? I'm not sure about this one.
Angel One
EWTN in English (Direct has EWTN in Spanish last I checked but this too could be outdated)
Horse Racing TV
Telefutura (part of AT120)
Does Direct offer CCTV9 and CCTV French.Spanish in their basic package? I don't know

This is just off the top of my head here. Again if NFL and CSTV would agree to be in the sports package or a similar arrangement as NBA TV, they would be on before the ink was dry on the contract.

Yes Oxygen is available on my cable system in the basic package (cable ready basic) and the digital part of the cable ready package had a little surprise with CSPAN 3 and One TV available unecrypted. But the cheapest non-lifeline package on my cable system is $52 a month!!!!!! I can get cheaper packages on Dish ($25 a month or $34 a month or even $48 a month!).

See ya
Tony

 

[GaryPen]

You forgot about IMF

International Monetary Fund?
Impossible Mission Force?
Idiot M****r F*****s?

 

[GaryPen]

In the interest of fairness to the channels Dish has thad Direct doesn't only listing the shopping channels (BTW Direct has its share of shopping channels Dish doesn't)

Dish has 13 shppoing channels vs DirecTV's 5. DirecTV has 1 shopping channel that Dish doesn't have. Not exactly "its share".

NBA TV is available on the sports pack, AEP and the NBA package on Dish. If the NFL network agreed to a similar set-up, the channel would be on Dish before the sound of the approval finished echoing in the conference room.

I thought we were discussing "basic" packages. But, OK, Dish has NBA-TV. As for your theory re: NFL Network...That's just wishful thinking, or woulda coulda shoulda, on your part.

Fox Reality will soon be wasting space on Dish. I believe that since Fox owns DirecTV they got a DBS exclusive on this channel for 6 months.

I believe airplanes fly because of magic pixie dust. Doesn't make it true though. Didn't the FTC (or was it FCC) mandate that Fox could not give DirecTV any preferential treatment compared to Dish?

Other "basic" channels on Dish not on DirecTV.
International Music Feed.
Si TV
Is Mun2 as part of their regular basic DitercTV line-up now (not just "para todos")? I'm not sure about this one.
Angel One
EWTN in English (Direct has EWTN in Spanish last I checked but this too could be outdated)
Horse Racing TV
Telefutura (part of AT120)
Does Direct offer CCTV9 and CCTV French.Spanish in their basic package? I don't know

I already mentioned HRTV in my post, as well as Dish's superiority in INternational channels, which, BTW, includes Spanish language programming.

This is just off the top of my head here. Again if NFL and CSTV would agree to be in the sports package or a similar arrangement as NBA TV, they would be on before the ink was dry on the contract.

And if we close our eyes, and wish really really hard, we can save Tinkerbell!

 

[TNGTony]

What is your problem Gary? Really? Why the attitude of some 13 year-old who just ound out the Easter Bunny is dead? Chill...

First off, IMF, Si TV and Mun2 are DOMESTIC networks in English for Americans. They are not international channels. IMF is a channel available worldwide but it is a domestic channel.

Of the 13 shopping channels, 7 are part time and actually BTV channels during their "down time". Dish just puts them to use when they are not otherwise occupied with BTV business. DirecTV also has BTV channels not available to subscribers that are not used in such a way during down time.

The NFL Network "theory" for Dish is not a "theory". It is a fact. It has been mentioned through official channels more than just a few times. If they agree to a similar deal as NBA they are on Dish tomorrow!
Same goes for CSTV and ESPN U. (though ESPN U will get on Dish the next time Disney/ABC station/Network contracts come up for renewal

Anyway, if you want CSTV, YES and the NFL Network, switch to DirecTV right now! You will get all the channels you keep harping about and you demonstrate to Dish how important the channels are to you with the only thing the company listens to...money. Perhaps your money is what DirecTV needs to finally have a profitable year! They have yet to have one and are on their second owner.

As for me, I don't care for sports enough to care about these channels so I'll be darned if I am going to advocate something that will lead to fmore price hikes in the long run.

See ya
Tony

 

[tnsprin]

I am so fed up with E*, cable and Direct regularly add channels and E* doesn't add ANYTHING besides locals and foreign channels. They are really lagging behind in the basics. Where is NFL NETWORK??!?! Where is Oxygen?? These are BASIC CABLE channels, and it's beyond pathetic that E* doesn't add them as well as others. Hell they are even dragging their feet with Fox Reality even though they have an agreement with them. They don't want to put up anything unless it's locals, shopping, or foreign. They wonder why their new sub numbers keep dwindling? If they don't get with it, when my annual sub is up for renewal in August, I am taking my $110 a month to cable.

They added several to 180 this year, but NOt very exciting ones.

 

[mdonnelly]

What is your problem Gary? Really? Why the attitude of some 13 year-old who just ound out the Easter Bunny is dead? Chill...
...

Gary's a compulsive Dish basher. He just can't help himself. Every time someone bashes Dish, Gary has to chime in.

 

[SummitAdvantageRetailer]

What is your definition of "better"?

Here is a list of BASIC channels carried in DirecTV Basic Packages that are not available from Dish:

CSTV
ESPN U
Fine Living
FitTV
Fox Reality
Lifetime Real Women
NBA TV
Newsworld Int'l
NFL Network
Oxygen
PBS Kids
TV One
YES

A list of Dish Basic Channels not available from DirecTV:

Auction TV (Shopping)
Beauty & Fashion Channel (Shopping)
BingoTV (Gotta be kidding)
Catalog TV (Shopping)
Healthy Living Channel (Shopping)
Horse Racing Network (More revenue generation.)
ISHOP (Shopping)
Jewelry Television (Shopping)
Men's Channel (Shopping)
Stuff TV (Shopping)
Style (Oooh. An actual channel.)
Sirius Music Channels (This is good. But, I don't miss it.)
TV Outlet Mall (Shopping)
Wisdom (The 2nd actual channel.)
And, a bunch of Public disInterest Channels

Where Dish leads DirecTV is in International Programming and SD locals, as the OP wrote. They also have the Voom10 for a partial HD advantage.

OTOH, DirecTV has all 4 major Nets in HD for those in O&O areas or with waivers. Plus, Starz and Max in HD. And, far more sports in HD.

Cable, of course, has the advantage over both in local HD and regional sports HD.

You might want to edit that list. ESPN U, CSTV, and NBA TV are available via a PREMIUM Sports Package that costs $12 a month and are not available on Total Choice or Total Choice Plus. You forgot to include that BIG detail. Plus, NBA TV is also available on Dish. Not only that, TVG comes on Dish's Top 60 and only available on DirecTV's PREMIUM sports package. Gol TV, Fox Soccer Channel, and the Outdoor Life Network are on America's Top 180 ($52.99) which is cheaper than doing either Total Choice Plus ($45.99) with the PREMIUM sports package ($12) or even with TC and sports package.

For me, Dish is better because I can get both Gol TV and FSC on Top 180 without having to subscribe to the extra sports package. I could care less about PBS Kids, Fox Reality Channel (must you fry your brain by watching Reality TV 24 hours a day?), or Oxygen on DirecTV. Just give me good HD and a no non-sense package and you got me as a sub. This is probably why we leave our showroom TV's on Dish more than on DirecTV.

 

[James Long]

It just annoys me to watch the Charlie Chat now because they used to always start the program off with "coming next week to Top 180 package... these 2 awesome channels".

You have a long memory! It has been a long time since they 'always' started the program with new national channels.

They added several to 180 this year, but NOt very exciting ones.

And now, the list:
4/15/05 International Music Feed (AT120 and up)
3/30/05 CSN:Chicago (Regional Sports Network)
3/16/05 Holistic TV Network (Wing PI)
1/25/05 FoxP2 (RSN Mirror)
1/12/05 The Pentagon Channel (Wing PI)
^^ One national non-PI so far this year

11/12/04 CSN: West (Regional Sports Network)
10/23/04 Mun2 (AT180 and up, was DL only)
9/29/04 CCTV9 and CCEF (AT60 and up - Chinese Propaganda)
9/1/04 Altitude Sports (Regional Sports Network)
7/14/04 HRTV (Horse Racing ... Interactive betting added later)
^^ Three national non-PIs and two Chinese produced feeds in the last year

6/16/04 TVGuide Channel (AT60 and up)
5/18/04 Sirius Music (some channels added later)
4/14/04 Nicktoons (AT180 and up)
2/25/04 Si TV (AT120 and up - English for Hispanics)
2/4/04 Bingo TV (Part time game show for selected states)
1/28/04 Auction TV and Catalog TV (last two shopping channels added)
1/21/04 ARTS (Wing PI)
^^ A couple more non-PIs in the first half of 2004

12/10/03 Reality TV (AT150 and up)
11/19/03 Stuff TV and TV Outlet Mall (more shopping!)
6/11/03 GOL TV (AT150 and up, was DL only)
5/28/03 Univision WEST and Telefutura E or W (AT100 and up)
2/19/03 NBA TV (AEP)
1/2/03 CNBC World (AT150 and up)
^^ A whole year with 5 channels (that's 10 real non-PI channels in 2 1/2 years)

So when did the slide begin? "Every Charlie Chat" hasn't had a new national channel for quite a while unless you like shopping and PIs (and even those are few and far between).

Go back to 2002 and find one real channel addition (National Geographic to AT150 and up 7/12/02) taking us to 11 real non-PI/shopping/propaganda/junk channels in the past three years. If one is kind and includes TVGC that's one every three months.

Other than separately available HD and locals, E* hasn't added a lot of channels in a long time. (Fortunately the GONE list is shorter.)

JL

 

[chaddux]

Dish has 13 shppoing channels

Shppoing channels? That sounds like some sort of porn fetish channel.

 

[GaryPen]

Wishful thinking on my part? Hey. If they were shppoing channels, there'd be no problem.

 

[GaryPen]

What is your problem Gary? Really? Why the attitude of some 13 year-old who just ound out the Easter Bunny is dead? Chill...

I'm quite chill. No attitude. But, when you compare the two lists of channels not available on the other service, most people (without emotional attachments to a utility company) would probably find the DirecTV list more "compelling". Obviously, you don't. That's cool. No need for the denial of fact, though.

First off, IMF, Si TV and Mun2 are DOMESTIC networks in English for Americans. They are not international channels. IMF is a channel available worldwide but it is a domestic channel.

I have no idea what IMF is. I thought that was clear from a previous post of mine. As for Si TV and Mun2, add 'em to the list.

Of the 13 shopping channels, 7 are part time and actually BTV channels during their "down time". Dish just puts them to use when they are not otherwise occupied with BTV business. DirecTV also has BTV channels not available to subscribers that are not used in such a way during down time.

I was not passing judgment on the shopping channels, only presenting them as channels Dish has that are not available on DirecTV. I labelled them as shopping to channels to clarify that they were not entertainment, news, or other mainstream format. The point is, they have 13, and DirecTV has 5. Thanks for pointing out BTV. I forgot about those. Does that make 15 or so for Dish, then?

The NFL Network "theory" for Dish is not a "theory". It is a fact. It has been mentioned through official channels more than just a few times. If they agree to a similar deal as NBA they are on Dish tomorrow!
Same goes for CSTV and ESPN U. (though ESPN U will get on Dish the next time Disney/ABC station/Network contracts come up for renewal

Until these channels are available to Dish subs, it's all just speculation.

Anyway, if you want CSTV, YES and the NFL Network, switch to DirecTV right now! You will get all the channels you keep harping about and you demonstrate to Dish how important the channels are to you with the only thing the company listens to...money. Perhaps your money is what DirecTV needs to finally have a profitable year! They have yet to have one and are on their second owner.

Nah. I've already switched my residential TV utility to Comcast. So, I get those channels anyway. (Not, YES, of course, as I live in CA.) Plus, I couldn't give a crap whether my TV utility is profitable. That's their problem.

BTW, if you're wondering why I still post to a dbs forum, if my residential service is Cable, it's because I still have a commercial account with Dish.

EDIT: I believe I forgot to add the Superstations to the list of Dish channels not available to DirecTV subs. (The ones living outside of those channels' DMA's, of course.) That is a HUGE plus for Dish, which deserves big kudos for providing them, while DirecTV deserves boos, hisses, and jeers for not providing them, even though they could easily do it. (They just don't understand how important those 5 channels are to a lot of people. I'd bet a dollar that 10's of thousands of subs would switch from E* to D* in a heartbeat, if D* offered the Supers.)

 

[TNGTony]

As to the DirecTV compelling list of channels being more compelling to most people, considering that DirecTV has 13.5 Million subscribers as of 9/30/2004
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-homeprofile

Dish Network has 10.475 million subscribers as of 9/30/2004
http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=dish&script=410&layout=-6&item_id=641860

If it were an election and the polls were closed, first you need to close the polls for DirecTV now and Dish in a year and a half since that is how long DirecTV had before Dish went into business. Also considering that to this day DirecTV is synonimous with DBS and Dish is unknown (like Xerox is to copiers) you'd think there would be a larger gap!

Both services are growing at an equal clip now taken as a whole. Looking at DirecTV's largest subscriber growth quarter ever, (considering DirecTV gave NFL Sunday Ticket away to new subscribers), Dish still added 350,000 net new additions for Dish Q3 2004 compaired to DirecTV's 484,000 in the same time period.

So okay more people liked the deal from Direct than Dish in q3 2004.
Remember DirecTV had to GIVE AWAY the NFL sunday ticket to get that kind of growth.

I just don't see the panic. I see that Dish's business model is quite viable and very competative. At least the sales numbers back this view.

Dish is profitable, DirecTV has yet to have a profitable year.
Dish is still growing at an equal rate to DirecTV (percentage)
Dish subscribers numbers over a full year are similar to DirecTV

Where is the panic? Why should Dish add programming that has proven NOT to be the huge draw claimed? Any programming package will do well in subscriber acquisition when given away.

See ya
Tony

 

[GaryPen]

As to the DirecTV compelling list of channels being more compelling to most people, considering that DirecTV has 13.5 Million subscribers as of 9/30/2004
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-homeprofile

Dish Network has 10.475 million subscribers as of 9/30/2004
http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=dish&script=410&layout=-6&item_id=641860

I would say a 29% difference shows a huge number of people find DirecTV's programming more compelling, certainly more than the 1 1/2 year head start can account for. (Especially since we are talking an approx 10 year period.) Also, you must realize that a HUGE portion of Dish subs are there for the International offerings. If one compaired the mainstream English language subs, you would no doubt see an even huger percentage difference.

Both services are growing at an equal clip now taken as a whole. Looking at DirecTV's largest subscriber growth quarter ever, (considering DirecTV gave NFL Sunday Ticket away to new subscribers), Dish still added 350,000 net new additions for Dish Q3 2004 compaired to DirecTV's 484,000 in the same time period.

You have an odd definition of "an equal clip". The difference here is even greater than the total number of subs. In that quarter DirecTV outdid Dish by 38%. I would say that things might be trending in the opposite direction than you indicate. Also, remember that Dish gives away all the equipment for free, and has no commitment. That basically counteracts any short term NFLST promo.

Where is the panic? Why should Dish add programming that has proven NOT to be the huge draw claimed? Any programming package will do well in subscriber acquisition when given away.

Who's panicking? Some Dish subs would like to see some channels added that are already available on DirecTV and most cable systems, some for quite a while now. It's a reasonable request. They also might be somewhat annoyed at Dish's lagging in this area. Again, a justifiable position. I can certainly understand it. Why can't you?

I can accept that some people prefer Dish. Free will and all that. Except for Internationals, Superstations, and some local markets, I don't understand why. But, I don't get upset if they find fault with my choices of utility companies. Got issues with Comcast? Fine. Don't like SBC? Fine. Don't care for PG&E, what do I care? They're not mebers of my family, and they probably could all use some improvement.

 

[David Dietzel]

The fact that Direct has 13 mil vs. 10 mil subs at any point in time is not so much a reflection of subs determining that they like the programming on Direct better as it is the fact that Direct has done a better job at establishing exclusive marketing agreements with big retailers such as Circuit City and Best Buy, shutting out Dish.

This "lock out" approach nearly caused me to miss out on VOOM. I bought my Sony HDTV at Sears as they had it in stock first over BB and CC and offered a $400 discount to boot. It was there that I got to see displays for VOOM -- VOOM was locked out of CC and BB. I signed up for VOOM and ran it along side Dish until Dish took over their content and satellite. Now I get VOOM for only $5 extra on my Dish bill.

I've had Dish for years and I don't see any compelling programming at Direct to make me switch -- I suppose a TRUE channel surfer will have both Dish and Direct, and even cable, too.

They HD content on Dish is terrific with more VOOM channels and HD locals to come in matter of months, not years.

The hardware is great -- I'm leasing a 942 with spectacular SD and HD output.

The Superstations on Dish are great, by the way, as are the VOOM channels. I also get CBS HD from New York, which is cool in Kalifornia.

I wish there were monthly data to look at too see which service, Dish or Direct, is actually growing fastest month by month. The Dish installer who handled my 942 last week indicated that they've been swamped with installs ever since Dish picked up VOOM.

 

[NightRyder]

I would say a 29% difference shows a huge number of people find DirecTV's programming more compelling, certainly more than the 1 1/2 year head start can account for. (Especially since we are talking an approx 10 year period.) Also, you must realize that a HUGE portion of Dish subs are there for the International offerings. If one compaired the mainstream English language subs, you would no doubt see an even huger percentage difference.

While not entering into the argument of which channel lineup is better (personal preference), if you factor in the approximately 2.7 million subscribers D* gained by purchasing Primestar and another 1.2 million by its force out of Pegasus the difference in subscriber numbers pretty much disappears. I do feel that D* does a better job of marketing but I don't base my choice of service provider on snazzy commercials.


NightRyder

 

[JH1949]

TO: Chris Walker

Enjoy your switch to Cable with the missing channels you need. It's usually healthier to switch than to continue to be frustrated, whether it's TV channels, or a job, or where one lives, or whatever.

That's what a market economy is all about: different offerings for different customer preferences, and the profitable companies survive while the unprofitable companies shut down.

Have a good life.

 

[GaryPen]

...I don't base my choice of service provider on snazzy commercials.


NightRyder

Gotta agree there. (Comcast ads are as bad as Dish', maybe worse.) If only the advertisers would realize that most people feel that way. I guess it doesn't matter, as long as I have a DVR with a working skip function. They can clog the air with stupid commercials all they want. I ain't watching them.

PS. Good point about PrimeStar. But, the Pegasus subs were DirecTV subs. Due to contractual agreement, they needed to go through Pegasus to subscribe to DirecTV. They could have subbed to Dish, if they chose to.

 

[HokieEngineer]

I agree with what Gary said

"I dont care if my TV provider is profitable, thats thier problem"


I'll go with whoever can get me the most bang for my buck, and best equipment. If D* or echo can't provide an HD DVR for no "upgrade" charge in the next few months, its gonna be CYA. Comcast in my area has a dual tuner HD DVR with firewire output enabled, carries more premiums in their packs, and has the local sports in HD. Pricing it out for the 4 TVs I need (2 of which are HD), cable is cheaper because of all the lease/no phone line fees echo charges. Thats another thing they better change soon, or all of us no landline peoples are history.

 

[NightRyder]

PS. Good point about PrimeStar. But, the Pegasus subs were DirecTV subs. Due to contractual agreement, they needed to go through Pegasus to subscribe to DirecTV. They could have subbed to Dish, if they chose to.

I couldn't recall if D* included NRTC type subscribers in their total count or not. I would assume that the vast majority of Pegasus subscribers stayed with D*, if they liked D* enough to put up with Pegasus, then I would consider them pretty devoted subscribers.

I also can't understand becoming emotionally attached to a "utility". I could probably save a few bucks a month on programming with D* just because of their package structure, but I would lose my Superstations, NY & LA DNS, fee free DVRs, $1.99 equipment warranty and package discounts, so at this time it's just not worth it for me.


NightRyder

 

[TNGTony]

I agree with what Gary said

"I dont care if my TV provider is profitable, thats thier problem"


I'll go with whoever can get me the most bang for my buck.

I understand that completely. However, in the long run a company has to make a profit, sap money from another source, sell out or fold up its tent. If DirecTV did not have the gigatic sow named Hughes funding it and now NewsCorp, it would be in deep financial dookie. EVENTUALLY (not now, not tomorrow, eventually) they have to start showing a profit.

Dish on the other hand does not have a teet to suck on. They have to show a profit at some point. And they have.

But again...I go back to the main point which is, if Dish's business practices are so bad; if Dish's offering is so terrible; if by not getting two stinking channels not every one wants or cares about... Dish is going to crumble up and blow away...how can one explain that 10 and a half million people chose Dish over the other. Even with DirecTV's brand recognition. Even with their superior distribution. Even with any other thing that can be said about how terrible Dish is and how much better the other program is.... 10.5 million people still chose Dish. And I have to look up the exact numbers, but it is over 90% of Dish subscribers that have some sort of basic (AT) package.

We are talking about TWO channels a few people are screaming about. That's it. Not EVERYone wants this stuff. Not Everyone cares. If they Did, Dish would not have 10.5 million subscribers out of 24 million.

See ya
Tony