Is the HD quality of today really getting worse

[Jhon69]

Since I'm new to HD I'm sure there is much to learn but so far I'm not only very impressed with the PQ of the HD channels but the PQ of the SD channels as well on my Dish Network VIP722k/wMT2.We have been watching on a Vizio 55" LED-LCD 1080p HDTV since 5-7-2011.

 

[BBruin66]

Im about to do the opposite, mostly because of TW crappy equipment for $20 a month for an HD DVR for one TV. TW does have very good HD quality and more channels than dish or DTV but their high price and 2002 level equipment drives me nuts. Do you think dish is on par with TW?

 

[englishtycoon]

It must be a Dish Problem....because I am not seeing it on Time Warner; and I was concerned when I dropped Dish for Time Warner there would be a difference in PQ, and I am quite pleased with the PQ. It is just TW's lousy equipment (drv) that sucks.

Watch an HD movie with a scene that has a lot of rain and tell me you don't see lots of artifacts

 

[KAB]

Don't confuse artifacts with fast motion "noise".

 

[JEFFinINDY]

If we agree that OTA high def is "as good as it gets" today, I have to admit that I don't see much difference between the average OTA broadcast and the average satellite HD broadcast on Dish.

This on a 67" DLP from ten feet away

 

[Ronnie-]

Even OTA can vary from market to market, and some of them are no better and in some cases even worse than what you will get from sat.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Depends on your locals and your eyes. Mine have been easy to spot in Mobile, Al, Charleston South Carolina and Virginia Beach.

 

[primetimeguy]

If we agree that OTA high def is "as good as it gets" today, I have to admit that I don't see much difference between the average OTA broadcast and the average satellite HD broadcast on Dish.

This on a 67" DLP from ten feet away

I can see a difference on Minneapolis locals (OTA vs Dish) on 57" TV at 10 feet.

 

[JEFFinINDY]

I can see a difference on Minneapolis locals (OTA vs Dish) on 57" TV at 10 feet.

I said "not much" - not none

 

[gadgtfreek]

I wish I only had "not much". Both Dish and Directv locals are soft IMO.

 

[AntiMoz]

Not all of the blame here goes to Dish Network (or choose your other provider). Our local ABC and Fox affilliates broadcast their OTA signal in 720p. None of them broadcast local news in HD (the NBC affilliate upconverts their local news feed to make it look like HD.) They simply dont want to spend the money on equipment and bandwidth.

Has anyone ever noticed how bad the NFL on CBS is with respect to the HD quality and significant motion artifact present? I have acces to OTA,TW Cable and Dish and the problem exists at the network feed. It's all about bandwidth and how much the content producer/provider and re-transmitters are willing to spend to provide quality content and the bandwidth to support it.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Understood, but in all 3 markets I lived, a direct comparison has always lead to the OTA signal being less soft.

 

[primetimeguy]

Has anyone ever noticed how bad the NFL on CBS is with respect to the HD quality and significant motion artifact present? I have acces to OTA,TW Cable and Dish and the problem exists at the network feed. It's all about bandwidth and how much the content producer/provider and re-transmitters are willing to spend to provide quality content and the bandwidth to support it.

Actually, that is a local issue. Without sub-channels, NFL on CBS is most often regarded as the best PQ of any channel. That is the case here in Minneapolis, but NBC is has come along nice as well.

So yes, the source comes in to play. But regardless of the local channel, Dish always appears softer to me.

 

[AntiMoz]

Actually, that is a local issue. Without sub-channels, NFL on CBS is most often regarded as the best PQ of any channel. That is the case here in Minneapolis, but NBC is has come along nice as well.

So yes, the source comes in to play. But regardless of the local channel, Dish always appears softer to me.

Local Issue? This is a right wing conspiracy against the Buffalo Bills!

 

[inazsully]

Interesting comment about some broadcasters using 720P. I have always been under the impression that there is little or no difference between 720P and 1080i. I've actually heard that 720P might be a little sharper than 1080i. I'm surprised that none of our Dish friends have not chimed in on this subject. Is Dish doing anything different to the signals compared to 8-10 years ago?

 

[Tampa8]

I have gone back and forth on this trying to see a difference between OTA and Sat. On my 48" LG close up, I may see a slight difference, with OTA being sharper, but I stress, may. From regular sitting distance, I do not think I can see a difference. Neither can I say one channel/network is consistently better or worse. It seems to be by what show it is. I consistently think NCIS looks soft. But Blue Bloods, on the same network looks good. The ABC shows "The Middle" and "Modern Family" look quite sharp, yet "Big Bang Theory" not so sharp. The late night shows except Conan always look very sharp.

As for 1080I or 720P, again on my TV, very little if any difference, though just like the experts say, fast moving objects may look a little better in 720P, but not night and day. And very close to the TV I do think I can see a slight difference in people's faces, with 1080I appearing possibly sharper. But if I were to come into the room and someone else made the settings I am not 100% sure I could see the difference from a regular sitting distance.

 

[BBruin66]

Interesting comment about some broadcasters using 720P. I have always been under the impression that there is little or no difference between 720P and 1080i. I've actually heard that 720P might be a little sharper than 1080i. I'm surprised that none of our Dish friends have not chimed in on this subject. Is Dish doing anything different to the signals compared to 8-10 years ago?

I have gone back and forth on this trying to see a difference between OTA and Sat. On my 48" LG close up, I may see a slight difference, with OTA being sharper, but I stress, may. From regular sitting distance, I do not think I can see a difference. Neither can I say one channel/network is consistently better or worse. It seems to be by what show it is. I consistently think NCIS looks soft. But Blue Bloods, on the same network looks good. The ABC shows "The Middle" and "Modern Family" look quite sharp, yet "Big Bang Theory" not so sharp. The late night shows except Conan always look very sharp.

As for 1080I or 720P, again on my TV, very little if any difference, though just like the experts say, fast moving objects may look a little better in 720P, but not night and day. And very close to the TV I do think I can see a slight difference in people's faces, with 1080I appearing possibly sharper. But if I were to come into the room and someone else made the settings I am not 100% sure I could see the difference from a regular sitting distance.

Do you guys have 1080 televisions? 1080i has far more pixels than 720p in a single frame. You should see a big difference but it's hard to find the same material in 1080 and 720 to compare, or have two TVs side by side one 1080 the other 720. 720p should be good for fast motion, the problem is most stations are so compressed that a lot of fast motion leads to bitrate jumps that surpass whatever the station is broadcasting which results in artifacting, so any extra frames you'd get, turn all blocky and distorted. Thus I'd rather have 1080 even if it's interpolated to 30hz.

 

[Frank Jr.]

I can't say that Dish, Direct or TWC in HD looks better than the other, but my OTA HD locals kicks butt.......

 

[harshness]

I've actually heard that 720P might be a little sharper than 1080i.

Given that there are so very few native 720p TVs, it probably isn't true.

I'm surprised that none of our Dish friends have not chimed in on this subject. Is Dish doing anything different to the signals compared to 8-10 years ago?

There's not much point in discussing it if everyone is either happy enough or resigned to the idea that it isn't going to improve without a lot more satellite bandwidth.

DISH is likely getting better compression as time goes on and the equipment becomes smarter but how (or if) they take advantage of it is unknown.

 

[Tampa8]

Do you guys have 1080 televisions? 1080i has far more pixels than 720p in a single frame. You should see a big difference but it's hard to find the same material in 1080 and 720 to compare, or have two TVs side by side one 1080 the other 720. 720p should be good for fast motion, the problem is most stations are so compressed that a lot of fast motion leads to bitrate jumps that surpass whatever the station is broadcasting which results in artifacting, so any extra frames you'd get, turn all blocky and distorted. Thus I'd rather have 1080 even if it's interpolated to 30hz.

If you do some research, there is not a big difference between 1080I (I=Interlaced) and 720P (P=Progressive) Progressive is a better transmission than Interlaced. That is why 1080P is much better than 1080I. Go to some AV forums and take a look at the posts. Even experts don't fully agree which is better for most people. If you get into 55" and above TV's, and sit relatively close, 1080I will appear a little sharper to most people. But some people find even at that size and distance, the smoothness of 720P looks better. Many (most?) smaller TV's are in 720P because there really is no difference at those sizes, that's how close the two formats are.

The Networks who broadcast in 720P aren't doing that to save money, there is no difference in cost. They believe overall, 720P to be so close to or equal to 1080I for most people they went with the better type of transmission. (Progressive) and felt it served better for faster moving objects.
Further, it is very easy to try and see the difference, change the output from the receiver from 1080I to 720P on 1080i material. The bigger difference will come when we can get full 1080P transmissions. Keep in mind, as you do say, many OTA transmissions, let alone from Sat, is not at full resolution and/or compressed often.

http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/default.htm