ISF Calib. (2 Viewers)

eschu97611

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 4, 2004
573
0
L.A. CA
Scheduled an appointment for an ISF Calib. for two weeks from now-was told I would be charged between $400-500 depending on how many "tweeks" I wanted-am I getting overcharged and is an ISF Calib really going to make a noticeable difference? Anyone who has had a Calib, esp. Mitsu owners please reply.
 

Scubasoul

SatelliteGuys Guru
Apr 18, 2004
128
0
eschu97611 said:
Scheduled an appointment for an ISF Calib. for two weeks from now-was told I would be charged between $400-500 depending on how many "tweeks" I wanted-am I getting overcharged and is an ISF Calib really going to make a noticeable difference? Anyone who has had a Calib, esp. Mitsu owners please reply.

Price mainly depends on how many inputs/scan rates you want to have calibrated. Also, convergence and geometry takes some time. What did they offer you for $400-500? Did you check with the calibrators over at the "HometheaterSpot"?
Check this out as well: http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/isf/isf.html
Yes, it makes a difference. I had my Mits also ISF calibrated. Of course, it all depends on how your set looks before calibration. A good calibrator will look, e.g, at geometry and tell you whether it makes sense to work on it. The most important thing is greyscale and color decoder calibration.
 

eschu97611

Thread Starter
SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 4, 2004
573
0
L.A. CA
Scubasoul said:
Price mainly depends on how many inputs/scan rates you want to have calibrated. Also, convergence and geometry takes some time. What did they offer you for $400-500? Did you check with the calibrators over at the "HometheaterSpot"?
Check this out as well: http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/isf/isf.html
Yes, it makes a difference. I had my Mits also ISF calibrated. Of course, it all depends on how your set looks before calibration. A good calibrator will look, e.g, at geometry and tell you whether it makes sense to work on it. The most important thing is greyscale and color decoder calibration.
Thanks for the link and info
 

GadgetRick

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 11, 2004
394
0
Near NYC
Yes...

Everyone I've known to get a set ISFed has noticed a difference. Of course, it all depends on what tweaks you're going to have applied. It also depends on how old your Mits is.

The price certainly seems in line with a basic ISF.

The Rickster
 

DarrellP

I Think, therefore, I am.
Supporting Founder
Nov 6, 2003
4,298
0
Salem, OR
Make sure you are getting a reputable ISF'r. Ask him for references so you can check him out. The price is not out of line if he is doing a lot and does it right. Some guys will charge you that amount but will spend 6-12 hours tweaking your set to get it right.

If you can do this on your set, have him save his tweaks as the new "default" setting if possible, and if your remote has a button for resetting the default setting, be VERY careful about not hitting it, I've read a few horror stories about people doing this, there goes $400 down the drain.
 

cameron119

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 18, 2004
288
0
The site mentioned removing the protective screens.

After removing the "DiamondShield" from my Mitsubishi, it was like getting a new set. I was amazed at how much that plastic can muck-up the picture.
 

svx94

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 21, 2004
35
0
I tweak my TV (Samsung HLN617 DLP) by myself and very happy with the result. Talk about "noticable" difference, you can achieve that by adjusting Brightness/Contrast... There is a calibrated Mitsubishi in my local store, it looks to me like a dust coated. I am very picky on colors based on my knowledge on art, painting and photography, I tweak the TV to make it please my own eyes... By saying that, you do need to learn a lot before tweaking your TV, but some research on the AVSFORUM.com will give you lots of information. One thing to remember is to record the out-of-box setting BEFORE you do anything...
 

cameron119

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 18, 2004
288
0
svx94 said:
I tweak my TV (Samsung HLN617 DLP) by myself and very happy with the result. Talk about "noticable" difference, you can achieve that by adjusting Brightness/Contrast... There is a calibrated Mitsubishi in my local store, it looks to me like a dust coated. I am very picky on colors based on my knowledge on art, painting and photography, I tweak the TV to make it please my own eyes... By saying that, you do need to learn a lot before tweaking your TV, but some research on the AVSFORUM.com will give you lots of information. One thing to remember is to record the out-of-box setting BEFORE you do anything...

From what I understand, the ISF calibration shoots for accuracy in color and convergence, not necessarily a user's preference. Most graphic artists calibrate their computer monitors as well, since their particular art must be appealing to the masses.

The Mitsu you saw must've been on the low-end or badly calibrated. It's hard to beat the diamond and platinum series with the 9" CRT guns...none made quite like them (as far as CRT's go).
 

DarrellP

I Think, therefore, I am.
Supporting Founder
Nov 6, 2003
4,298
0
Salem, OR
Cameron is right, the gray scale and color temp are the 2 main factors that are adjusted during an ISF calibration. Normally both of these items are way off the scale out of the box. Look at any TV review in a rag like Sound & Vision and they give you the before and after parameters of gray scale and color temp. There are a few boxes that are close out of the box but none are dead on. Nobody has an eye good enough to adjust these, it takes a piece of electronic gear.

Most people do not like the results of an ISF calibration after it's done. The tech will tell you to give it 2 weeks to allow your brain to adjust to the new image.
 

SaintsFan

Active SatelliteGuys Member
May 5, 2004
23
0
out of box settings

Are the factory presets supposed to be close to the correct settings for grayscale, colortemp, contrast, sharpness and so on. My Hitachi 57" has four presets for the video depending on the type of program your watching: sports, news, movies, and music. I assume most "higher end" T.V.'s have these, but If the T.V. is ISF'd would the settings be much different from the presets.
 

Iceman

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 18, 2003
82
0
Georgia
reply

Trust me on this one; You want Gregg Loewen to do your ISF. He is regarded as the best ISF tech there is. Also, you get a lot more tweaks for your buck with him. For more info, go to www.lionav.com

Hope this helps.

Ice
 

dclark

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 14, 2004
35
0
[There is a calibrated Mitsubishi in my local store, it looks to me like a dust coated. I am very picky on colors based on my knowledge on art, painting and photography, I tweak the TV to make it please my own eyes...

That says it all. Most people are so used to watching TV with exagerated, cartoon like color and enough brightness to make a lamp envious, that a they think that a properly calibrated set looks "dust coated".

Calibration means just that- getting the set to reproduce the picture as ACCURATELY as possible. Watch a calibrated set for two weeks and you won't miss that supposedly "pleasing to the eyes" picture of the past.
All other sets will appear too bright, with unnatural colors. An uncalibrated set makes as much sense as a stereo with the bass and treble controls set to "max". If you are truly "picky on colors based on my knowledge on art, painting and photography", then you will purchase a blue filter and adjust your set with a color chart.
 

svx94

SatelliteGuys Family
Mar 21, 2004
35
0
It seems most people dissagree with my comment, and I am not supprised. I just want to put this thing in a practical perspective.
1. The calibrated set in my local store is a top-of-line Diamond Mits, and I dislike the color;
2. There is a very practical reason for the commercial art designers to calibrate their monitors, because OTHER people will be the viewers of their work, and likely viewing through different type of monitors. Calibrated monitor make their work fit most of their customers. Your TV is for you only.
3. If you can see the adjustment result grayscale, colortemp, contrast, etc from your favorite DVDs, you are almost good enough to calibrate by yourself. If you can't, likely your eye is not that picky anyhow. I heard people got ISF calibration service "over the phone", what is the point?

Certainly, if you are used to the "accurate" color, you may very well need a calibration; If you don't know how to do it, pay someone is not a bad idea; If you have money to burn, contribute to the economy... My advice to the average Joe, is not to dump $400-500 if you don't really need it.

Cheers!
 

Iceman

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 18, 2003
82
0
Georgia
I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

svx94 said:
It seems most people dissagree with my comment, and I am not supprised. I just want to put this thing in a practical perspective.
1. The calibrated set in my local store is a top-of-line Diamond Mits, and I dislike the color;
2. There is a very practical reason for the commercial art designers to calibrate their monitors, because OTHER people will be the viewers of their work, and likely viewing through different type of monitors. Calibrated monitor make their work fit most of their customers. Your TV is for you only.
3. If you can see the adjustment result grayscale, colortemp, contrast, etc from your favorite DVDs, you are almost good enough to calibrate by yourself. If you can't, likely your eye is not that picky anyhow. I heard people got ISF calibration service "over the phone", what is the point?

Certainly, if you are used to the "accurate" color, you may very well need a calibration; If you don't know how to do it, pay someone is not a bad idea; If you have money to burn, contribute to the economy... My advice to the average Joe, is not to dump $400-500 if you don't really need it.

Cheers!
I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I have no idea who performed the ISF calibrated Mits set you are referring to, but I bet they did a poor job or adjusted the color, tint, etc. and said that it is now calibrated.

There is some people that go into people's home every day carrying a Avia DVD disc, adjust a few things and charge them a couple hundred bucks and say their set is now ISF calibrated. I own a Avia disc and it did make a difference in my picture quality, but and ISF calibration is in a totally different world.

I am a serious audio/video enthusiast, and I always do thorough research before buying any equipment or services. I have viewed several different ISF calibrated sets by at least five different calibrators. All of their results were a little different, but every set looked night and day difference better than before the ISF calibration.

Now even though technically the ISF calibration is to adjust the grayscale of the set, a lot more tweaks go into this service, at least with Gregg Loewen at www.lionav.com . In addition to the grayscale calibration he performs the following:
1. Pre evaluation of the viewing environment Pre evaluation of the display device, projector, and cabling
2. Removal of the protective screen (where applicable)
3. Mechanical disconnection of SVM circuit
4. Image centering
5. Minimization of overscan
6. Correction of major geometry errors
7. Convergence touch up of all NTSC modes
8. Electronic focus adjustments
9. Mechanical focus adjustments
10. Cleaning of optics
11. Herman TLV Maneuver for applicable Toshiba sets
12. Grayscale adjustment to 6500 D Kelvin
13. Centering of front panel controls when ever possible
14. Adjustment of front panel controls from within the service menu
15. Color decoder adjustment where possible, either via service menu adjustment, EEPROM Reflashing (I2C Fix), or installation of a red push attenuator.
16. Lens striping, when required, to achieve a color temperature variation of less than 500 Kelvin.
17. Computer generated report showing pre and post calibration settings


You mentioned the Mits in a local store. The Mits eeprom has to reprogrammed due to the amount of red push the set produces. I doubt the calibrator at that store performed that along with the above mods.

My Mits is on Gregg's list in mid June to be calibrated. I will post a thread on the results. If my set turns out half as good as I have seen the other sets I have seen done by Gregg, I am in for a real treat.
 

Lobstah

SatelliteGuys Pro
Mar 6, 2004
444
0
I will also be contacting Greg next month to get on his schedule...can't wait.
And no...you can't get "ISF calibration service over the phone", and no, the average joe isn't capable of that level of calibration.

And from a different slant, most people here are probably capable of rebuilding their transmissions, too, but would much sooner pay someone else to do it. Much less chance for error, and must better results.

Lob
 

tennisman

New Member
Apr 28, 2004
3
0
Rhode Island
I've had my Sony HS20 with a Stewart Filmscreen calibrated by a local (to Rhode Island) ISF technician who was worth every penny. After figuring out the weird offsets in black level between my DVD player and projector, he removed a filter, which was supposedly recommended by Sony, calibrated the greyscale to 6500K, for all inputs that I use (component and HDMI (yes, each input can/is going to be different)) and re-checked them based on the different resolution levels . Since he's been here, I've been ruined. I wince everytime I have to do is go into a big box store and look at the horrible pictures on the display sets.... For what it's worth.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Latest posts

Top