Jumping Ship, Dish vs. Cable

[WorkOutMN]

Update

Time Warner came out and installed my service today. By a nice surprise, the two DVR's they brought out were both the brand-new 8300's -- one hi-def, the other not. The third box, which was to be a 3250 with firewire, was a 3250 but without firewire, so a unit with firewire is being brought on Tuesday. In the meantime though, I have in my hands two DVR's and I can access either of those from my third box. So, my roommate can record what he wants on his DVR, I can record what I want on mine, and if either of us prefer to watch it in the living room ont he 55" Mitsu, the standard 3250 acts as a client to the DVR and we can watch it out there.

Read it 'n' weep, Charlie.

 

[josem3]

Time Warner came out and installed my service today. By a nice surprise, the two DVR's they brought out were both the brand-new 8300's -- one hi-def, the other not. The third box, which was to be a 3250 with firewire, was a 3250 but without firewire, so a unit with firewire is being brought on Tuesday. In the meantime though, I have in my hands two DVR's and I can access either of those from my third box. So, my roommate can record what he wants on his DVR, I can record what I want on mine, and if either of us prefer to watch it in the living room ont he 55" Mitsu, the standard 3250 acts as a client to the DVR and we can watch it out there.

Read it 'n' weep, Charlie.

Let me see If I understood, you need two cable receivers(HD and SD) to perform one job like 942 HD DVR. With one bo942), the installation is more simple than two plus save room on TV2.

 

[jrm21]

I moved from Cablevision to Dish more than 6 years ago Never really looked at the difference much since then. Seems the gap has closed quite a bit.

Between broadband and several other TVs in the house, I still have basic cable. Dish is only hooked up to two sets.

If I am reading things right, I can get the Cablevision Digital Silver package for $67/month. With their HD DVR receiver, there is another $10/month "DVR" fee. I don't have to buy the box, so I rent it for another $5/month. Total cost=$82. This will give me CBS/ABC/NBC/Fox networks in HD, plus HBO, Starz, Universal, 13 and ESPN HD.

I currently have a Dish package with HBO/Showtime and HD package, hooked up to 2 sets which costs $81/m. So cable gives me an HD DVR, and a little bit more programming (counting the Starz for Showtime as a fair trade) for $1 more.

But since I am already paying about $35/month for cable, making the switch back only raises my cable bill by $47, so I would end up saving by making the switch. Actually, I could get the Digital Gold package
($87+$10+5=$102... a $67 increase in cable bill, while eliminating the Dish $81 fee) get much more SD and HD programming than I am getting now and still pay less per month than I am paying now.

And none of this includes any of the deals and waived fees that people have mentioned.

Am I looking at this right, or am I missing something?

I was originally looking at getting a 921. Doing this means an outlay of $489+tax (assuming I can get it at Costco) and then paying Dish another $5/month DVR fee (I know they both have it, but this charge makes no sense). Then I have to buy and install a rooftop antenna to receive any locals outside of CBS in HD (and hope I can get a good signal).

After all that, I am promised by Dish that there will be no new HD programming for at least a year, and that the 921 will be replaced with a newer model very soon.

I have a strong dislike for Cablevision. I cannot believe that I am even considering a switch back. Please show me what I am missing.

Also, does anyone know what the Cablevision HD DVR is like? Does it have optical audio out? There seems to be no equipment info on their website.

Thanks.

--Joe

 

[mboy]

I can not believe I am switching back either, but I have them coming in Feb to install.
This is the deal I got, just by calling up:
1-HD-PVR
2- Digital Cable boxes
IO gold
1st year price is $80.90
2nd year price $90.90
3rd year, normal pricing
Also got OOL cable broadband for $29.99 1st year
normal 44.95 after that.

FREE INSTALL

Right now for AEP + locals + HD pack and leasing my 811 & 522, I pay $109 (which will be $115 soon), then $50 for my cable modem)= $165

1st year on new package I will be paying $110 for both TV (with an HD-PVR and no less then 2xs the amount of HD) AND my cable modem.
A nice bonus is finally getting the YES network.
Only downside for me is no more Discovery HD and no HDNet. I think the $50+ month savings for 1st year alone and $15-20 after that with more features and channels is a no brainer.
So, I know how u feel, I NEVER in a million years thought I would have to pay the Dolans any more $$ other then for a cable modem, but they offer a better service now for comperable money. No brainer for me!!!!

Here is a LONG thread on the Cablevision version of the DVR, seems many, many more are happy with that compared to the 921:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,11851209~mode=flat

 

[birkoff]

So I'm sitting here watchin the Colt v Bronco game in SD on
a Sony HD TV. A commercial comes on for cable and I feel
bad, cause they did catch up, and because they have paid
more bucks for congressmen, and the congressmen said I can't
watch local or network HD over Dish. (Remember the same
congress "gave away" a ton of spectrum to local TV).

Dish seems to think if they don't address the problem it will go
away. But at this point Dish has become an obsolete HD provider.

Birkoff

 

[DVDDAD]

Also, does anyone know what the Cablevision HD DVR is like? Does it have optical audio out? There seems to be no equipment info on their website.

Joe, Yes it has optital audio out. You can find more out about the box at http://www.sciatl.com/products/customers/prod_sub_explorer_family.htm

Athough this is the site for cable operators and some features are cable operator specific. You only have the installation fee ($34.95) and a month's fee of $9.95 to lose to try it for a month to see if you like it.

 

[mboy]

Yes, optical out and why not try it out for free. I am not getting charged ANY install fee. Go to the link I posted above, all you wanted to know and more about Cablevision's version of the HD DVR 8300.

 

[jrm21]

Thanks for the info. The optical out question was my only real concern.

I called CV and my pricing comparison seems correct. I can "upgrade" to th CV Gold package, get a DVR in one room, 2nd Digital receiver in another room and have the "regular" channels in the rest of the house for about $20 less per month than I am currently paying. (2 room Dish non-DVR, with HBO/Sho/HD, plus Cablevision basic Family for other TVs). This not only gets me considerable more regular channels (especially Movie channels, which is what I watch the most), but also more HD, including all my locals in HD.

The only other thing to do is bargin with CV a bit to see if I can get any of the deals being offered to return customers. There should also be some sort of discount on the cable rate due because I have Optimum Online through them.

Thanks for the help.

--Joe

 

[stratguy]

Well I hate to be saying this but I'm jumping off of the sattelite wagon as well. Comcast just has so much more to offer than they use to and I'll save about 25.00 a month and get more HD content.

 

[WorkOutMN]

Josem3:

No, you didn't understand.

First, the 8300HD can handle any programming, not just HD. I didn't mean to imply that you have to have one just for HD DVR'ing and one for just SD DVR'ing -- that's not the case at all. I needed two so the roommate could have his own DVR with his own programming and I could have my own with my own programming.

Second, I could have just had one 8300 DVR box and had that in the living room and had two 3250 clients in my roommate's bedroom and my bedroom. But given the D-VHS VCR is in the living room and the DVR(s) don't have live Firewire (yet), that meant the 3250 w/Firewire had to be in the living room and the DVR(s) had to go somewhere else -- either my bedroom, or the roommate's bedroom. I asked for two so that my roommate could have his own set of recordings and I could have my own set. Otherwise one of us would have to walk into the other one's bedroom to schedule recordings, and that's not the coolest.

On the other hand, both 8300's in my house have S-ATA on the back for adding another hard drive for additional storage. How many 942's do you need before you get expandable storage? And if you ordered today, when would you actually get them?

 

[wmhjr]

On my way to Adelphia in a few minutes...

Well, I've stuck with Dish for a while. Even just took delivery of a brand new 921. Unfortunately, it's just a really poorly performing unit. To steal somebody else's quote, "it makes Windows look REALLY reliable".

Called Adelphia today (wish I had Comcast!). I can get: HD/DVR, absolutely everything they offer including all premium channels, all HD, all locals on HD except FOX because of a disagreement with Sinclair Broadcasting, who owns our local Fox affiliate. I also get my broadband internet included, for which I currently pay separately about $57/month. Total: $131.59. Of course, that's with no other DVR's, which are $11/month. No installation, no purchase, no contract, etc. Currently I pay Dish $107.95 plus the $57 for internet, a total of around $165. I can then sell my two 508's and my 510 and replace them with TiVo's. The first Tivo has a $12.95 and any others are discounted to $6.95. So, assuming I have three, that's a monthly total of $158.44 - less than I currently pay. Further, that also gets me the ability to logon through the web to schedule programming at my home when I'm not there, and to transfer content from any of the non-HD units to any other. Something that just can't be done on Dish. Additionally, though I really didn't need it, the Tivo functionality is certainly better than the Dish DVR functionality. If I'm going to pay a "service fee", at least I get a service. Bottom line? So long as things look OK at Adelphia, I'm sending the 921 back this week and getting rid of Dish.

 

[Ransack]

Every week, i get an Adelphia flyer touting their DVR and HD offerings. In researching some other posts, i didn't see anyone all that happy with the picture quality of adelphia. Although, beinig able to get hd locals right off the bat is a big selling point.

I would be interested to get your feedback once you have it installed. I currently have my cable internet service thru Adelphia which is paid for by my company and have been extremely happy with the service. My average d/l speed is 2,000 kbps (i must be one of very few people on my node), so they can do a few things right!

 

[Amphicar770]

Comcast is offering HD Silver for a year at $29.95. Even after the year is up, I will have more HD, AND HBO, AND a rented dual-tuner PVR for $10 more than I am paying DISH.

DISH needs to seriously look at its business model. They have lost on the cost advantage, they have lost on the equipment advantage, they have lost the HD lead, and in some areas are losing the PQ race. A BIG difference from 5 years ago.

On the one hand, E* may look at the members of this list as the vocal minority. The problem they must contend with is that we are also the people who influence many other friends and consumers.

I have been a big fan of DISH over the years, even bought stock. But enough already Charlie, give me at least one compelling win over cable so that I can continue to justify the thing on my roof. Lately you have become the very company that you rallied against in creating your business. Dang, I want you to win the race but it does not even seem like you are in the game these days.

 

[gregmisc]

Will Look at Cable

I guess I jumped into 921 and HD too fast without proper research. I should have looked for this site earlier to make an informed decision about HD using cable vs E*. Glad the 921 is still in the box and will cancel install today.
Thanks everyone!

 

[korsjs]

does anyone in the tampa area know if their are any deals for bright house customers? their site does not have any deals like you guys mention.

 

[Sean Mota]

If anyone is interested, CV also has a basic package of HD for about $17 per month. It includes all the locals in HD plus INHD. No MSG or FSN in HD. But it is another option out there. I do have them as a cable provider to get the YES network which Charlie never got plus broadband. When the DVR came out, I did not want to try it since I wanted to see how bug free it was. Now from the reports I have heard it sounds like a good product of equal value to the 921 (except you don't have to shell $500 for it). I am going to give it a try and bring down E* to just the HD Pack on two TVs because I need HDnet and HDnet movies. When E* goes back to be more competitive, I will try them again and give them more of my money.

One questions for those that have the CV DVR. I have heard that it has "Season Pass" like Tivo. Is this correct?

 

[korsjs]

ok, called my cable company today to find out what deals they had for satellite customers.

34.95 for all channels, plus movie channels, plus indemand channels, with dvr for one year. the movie channels and indemand come off after six months. included in the package is the dvr rental fee and dvr fee.

for three dollars more (37.95) i can upgrade to the hdpvr (currently a waiting list). all locals except nbc, tnt hd and discovery come in the package.

6.95 for extra box. 6.00 for hd pack includes espn hdnet hdmovies inhd 1 and 2. espn2hd suppose to be coming soon.

no commitment and no install fee.

i am going to call dish tonight and confirm i do not have any commitment (they told me i had none the last time i talked to them). if they confirm this, i am going to call the cable co, to verfiy pricing again, and make an install appointment. i will call dish back and have them cancel it the day after the install.

 

[jrm21]

found the catch in the cable deal

Well, I was ready to drop Dish and go back to Cablevision. Had three separate conversations with CSRs asking questions (these people were very helpful).

Then, they put me on with sales and I found the catch.

I currently have "Family" cable. Dish is on 2 sets and Cable is hooked directly to another 5. I have no cable boxes.

Cablevision just told me that if I upgrade to any iO service, I will need a box on every television to receive any channel higher than 14. In other words, I will LOSE all the "Family" channels on my other TVs (unless I pay for a converter box for each set - about $5/month each).

Major bummer.

This would increase the cost of cable by another $25/month, eliminating the expected savings. Plus, I would be forced into getting cable boxes where I don't want or have room for them (i.e. the kitchen).

So once you get digital from Cablevision, even the "family" channels become digital and require a set top box. And you cannot go back by "downgrading."

The sales rep told me "well, we are upgrading everyone to digital. Sooner or later you will have to get a set top box anyway to receive family channels." This is nuts - cable's biggest advantage (IMO) over satellite has always been the ability to connect to multiple TVs without needing a box (thus the term, "cable-ready" TV).

Just when Cable seems to be more competitive, they shoot themselves in the foot. Looks like Dish keeps my business by default. Back to Costco to see if they have any 921s yet.

--Joe

 

[DVDDAD]

Cablevision just told me that if I upgrade to any iO service, I will need a box on every television to receive any channel higher than 14. In other words, I will LOSE all the "Family" channels on my other TVs (unless I pay for a converter box for each set - about $5/month each).

Joe,

This is not so. If you upgrade to iO, you will only need the boxes to receive the digital cable channels, not the analog ones. I have one iO box (SA-8300HD) and 5 TV's get the analog channels (about 35 of them, but no premium channels).

 

[jrm21]

Adam,

Thanks for adding to my confusion.

I have spoken with 2 different CSRs and 1 salesperson on this. All have separately confirmed that anything higher than channel 14 needs a box once you go to iO. This cost them a "sale" as I was about to order iO gold with a DVR. On learning this I am now asking about the options for cancelling service and going 100% Dish.

Usually, these folks are mis-informed in a way that benefits them. They never seems to provide information that shows them at a disadvantage.

What you say makes sense. I am afraid to try it because, if true, then I cannot go back. I think one or two of my neighbors have iO. I need to visit them and see what channels they get on their TVs that have no box.

Thank you for pointing this out. I am not questioning your knowledge - it is my experience that someone on a board like this is much more informed than a cable/dish/etc. employee. The only thing that worries me is how 3 different people at cablevision were so adamant on this point, even after discussed at length. They claim I am getting the "Family" channels now as analog (15-69?) and once I go iO they will be delivered as digital.

--Joe