KVCR Going to Low VHF (1 Viewer)

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Mister B

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 3, 2008
352
149
El Paso County Texas
Last year a friend of mine in the Los Angeles area asked me to put up an antenna at his vacation home in San Juan Capistrano. I had previously told him there was not much hope based on TVFool results but he really wanted to give it a try rather than use a pay service for just a couple of days per week. We bought the Antennas Direct DB4e with the add on high VHF rod. I was pleasantly surprised how well it worked. The major Los Angeles stations from Mt. Wilson come in about 75% of the time although they can break up for no apparent reason. I think TVFool is not extremely accurate in such extreme fringe situations. On some days the San Diego channels actually come in better than LA and according to the chart they should be almost impossible.
One channel that is always dependable is KVCR the PBS outlet for the Inland Empire. Again on TVFool it should not be very reliable but if we turn the antenna in that direction it is watchable day and night. I keep an eye on changes coming to the LA market for this reason and now I see that KVCR has sold out and will be moving to low VHF 5. I have "Goggled" around and can not get a date on when this expected to happen. Even more so, I have no idea if channel 5 will come in as well as the current channel 26. Low VHF had a reputation of floating over ridges better than UHF so that would be a hopeful sign. On top of that I also have not located a single low VHF antenna currently for sale on the internet. I knew Solid Signal and Summit Source used to have at least one but now they seem to be discontinued. I have several low vhf/high vhf uhf combiners and it would be ideal to couple a low vhf antenna on to the current set-up so as not to need the pole to be rotated to get KVCR.

If any members have any thoughts on this interesting situation it would be a great discussion point.
 
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harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
16,788
2,841
Salem, OR
More specifically, VHF low is 57-85MHz (center frequencies) while VHF high is 177-213MHz. The wavelength difference is substantial and it isn't a nice round multiple where you can carelessly rely on harmonics for the high band (although the third harmonic may fit in a few situations).
 

boba

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 12, 2003
11,350
1,033
Dorchester, TX.
When TV antennas were more popular say 1960-1970 you could buy cut to channel TV antennas such as one for CH 2 that could be combined in a master antenna system with other channels such as 8 & 14 aimed in different directions. But we have cabled and satellited ourselves out of those solutions.
 
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HoTat2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 12, 2012
1,286
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Los Angeles, CA.
In the LA market myself, ... but nah ...

I don't think anyone's really selling exclusively VHF-lo antennas nowadays.

Think your only option is to simply purchase an entire VHF-lo/hi and UHF multiband model.

With all the repack movements I was thinking of replacing my current VHF-hi/UHF Winegard HD7697P with the VHF-lo band capable cousin the HD8200U such as.

Winegard Heavy Duty Platinum VHF UHF FM Outdoor TV Antenna (HD8200U) from Solid Signal

But with only KVCR-24, which would have to be received off-axis, if at all, since I'm naturally pointed toward Mt. Wilson/Harvard. And Spanish KWHY-22, that I don't watch anyway, scheduled to move to VHF-lo. I don't think the antenna upgrade is really worth it.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
 

FTA4PA

Satellite Guys Family
Lifetime Supporter
Nov 13, 2013
5,296
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Central Pennsylvania
Ive never seen antennas marketed as “VHF Low” or “VHF High.” It’s always “VHF” or “UHF” or “VHF/UHF.”
Sent from my iPhone using the SatelliteGuys app!

As recently as a few years ago Antennacraft sold a channel 2-6 VHF-Lo model and two channel 7-13 VHF-Hi models.

Antennacraft VHF Antennas

I'm currently using their Y10713 model. :) Appears that they were part of Radio Shack because when RS went under seems Antennacraft did as well? :(
 

harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
16,788
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Salem, OR
Ive never seen antennas marketed as “VHF Low” or “VHF High.” It’s always “VHF” or “UHF” or “VHF/UHF.”
You clearly need to get out more. The term VHF-high is sometimes used to distinguish the "HD antennas" or "DTV antennas" than can do some VHF from those that cannot. It is easier to understand than saying >170MHz versus >470MHz.

I think we're all going to see a lot more VHF in our futures (assuming the concept of OTA doesn't implode).
 
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primestar31

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Mar 15, 2005
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Just as soon as enough people will need low VHF antenna's, the Chinese will provide them. Otherwise, you may have to make your own, OR purchase one of the huge older ALL-band antenna's that also include low VHF. Don't forget these frequencies are also VERY susceptible to electrical interference, so you may have to go "hunting" and eliminate all sorts of power cubes, LED lightbulbs, battery charger/tenders and such from your home. You may even have an electrically noisy pole transformer anywhere within the line of site, that can cause issues. You can track these down with an portable AM radio tuned to a white noise channel.
 
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Gray Hair

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Jun 9, 2012
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Mister B

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 3, 2008
352
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El Paso County Texas
Yes, it probably is not going to be worth the trouble to get KVCR. If it were my home, I would certainly look into some options but my friend is sensitive to the neighbors opinion as far as visual appeal goes even though I have explained his legal rights.
I had a Winegard low VHF only antenna as recently as 2003 (can not remember the model number) but had to let it go about two moves ago.
 
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ShawnHill1

SatelliteGuys Family
Dec 10, 2013
46
37
Los Angeles
I live in SW Los Angeles, and often times when the weather is right, and the antenna properly set, I can pick-up KVCR in my home. There are certain spots in Southwestern Los Angeles County where you pick up KVCR, especially with the hilly terrain in the area. Going back to when I was a DirecTV subscriber in the mid-2000s, that station has always had transmitter issues, and I believe there was even a point where it was off of DTV for months.
 

harshness

SatelliteGuys Master
May 5, 2007
16,788
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Salem, OR
Don't forget these frequencies are also VERY susceptible to electrical interference, so you may have to go "hunting" and eliminate all sorts of power cubes, LED lightbulbs, battery charger/tenders and such from your home.
I don't remember it that way. Up until the DTV conversion I had an RF2 and it wasn't plagued by any of the issues you cite. Of course LED light bulbs weren't a thing but fluorescent lamps certainly were and most all DC power supplies were linear but anything that makes that much noise these days won't pass muster with UL.

Most of the VHF low band has been in active use in the LA market for many years and will continue to be used after the repack.
 

HoTat2

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 12, 2012
1,286
328
Los Angeles, CA.
Interesting that DirecTV used the OTA signal instead of a fiber run for their uplink.
Yeah ...

I think the ASI fiber feeds are at least used by the big four O&Os in this market. KCBS-2, KNBC-4, KABC-7, and KTTV-11.

But you can tell most others are likely OTA since when a station repack movement here causes a change in their frequency DIRECTV's satellite rebroadcast of them temporarily goes out while I assume they're making re-tuning adjustments to their equipment at the LABC, which serves as the LRF for the LA market.

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