Locals and grandfathered distant networks

[TerryK]

I have been with E* since '97 and was grandfathered with the SHVA in regards to distant locals. We are scheduled to get our locals here in North Texas on July 15th. My question is do I lose my distant locals or does the grandfathering continue and I can receive both distant and locals. I know I have seen threads with similar questions but I don't recall a definitive answer one way or the other.

This brings up another question. If I have to switch to a SuperDish will my DishPro Quad LNBF work along with the third LNBF for the 121 satellite?

Any info will be much appreciated!

 

[jlhugh]

I am in the same predicament as you. I think I will just drop my DFW dist ants when the WF locals become available. I too have been a customer since 97. You will have to use the SuperDISH to get the locals. As for the quad, I believe that there will be a duel LNB then the single third LNB will all go into the 34 switch, so you will still have the capabilities to use 4 TV's. You will have to try and see if they will let ya have both of them.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I don't think a Quad (or Twin) can be mounted on a SuperDish - the mounting and positions are different than a Dish 500.

 

[Bruce]

I have been with E* since '97 and was grandfathered with the SHVA in regards to distant locals. We are scheduled to get our locals here in North Texas on July 15th. My question is do I lose my distant locals or does the grandfathering continue and I can receive both distant and locals. I know I have seen threads with similar questions but I don't recall a definitive answer one way or the other.

This brings up another question. If I have to switch to a SuperDish will my DishPro Quad LNBF work along with the third LNBF for the 121 satellite?

Any info will be much appreciated!

What they say over at AVSFourm is all left over "grandfathered"will be exipred by the end of the year(2004)I also had my distent networks with them since 97 and I was cut off 2 years ago,I really miss getting the out of market FoNY and LA)Simpson reruns eight times a day along with what IO got on my locals here.

 

[TerryK]

Thanks for the info.

Thank you for the replies. I had a feeling my questions were going to be answered the way they were. Oh well I enjoyed the distant nets while I had them. We will see how things work out.

Fortunately my 921 is working with few snags, the HD is very nice!

 

[TNGTony]

Terry,

I have almost given up answering this question because it is always disputed by some one or another who doesn't understand the complexities. Then the issue gets clouded and people like you come back and say "there is no difinitive answer"

The easy (and correct) answer is the following:

The process of you ordering your local channels when they become available have NOTHING, zip, nada, zero, zilch to do with your distant networks. Whether or not you order your locals, the distant networks status will not be affected.

Here is where it gets complicated, what affect the distant networks is the following:
IF you qualify outright (live in an area outside the grade B signal strength of all stations affiliated with each network) you will NOT lose your distants.

IF you are truly grandfathered under the SHVIA, you will not lose your distants until the law expires at the end of the year. That is unless the provision is extended again in the new SHVREA.

IF you have one or more of the distant networks because you local stations issued you a waiver, or issued Dish a blanket waiver, you MAY lose one or more distant networks.

Again, you ordering the locals when they become available does not trigger any kind of review of the distant netowrk. The market getting the locals may trigger a blanket audit. That is why some people are convinced that when they ordered their locals, it caused their network feeds to be turned off. It just isn't so. But like any kind of anecdotal evidence, it is impossible to argue a negative.

See ya
Tony

 

[Sparkman]

Tony is right! I am grandfathered for NBC & CBS and have had them since 1997. Lost ABC & FOX. I am in the Chicago DMA and have the Chicago locals as well and have had them since they were made available. I think that was back in 1999. I will lose them 12/31 as of now.

 

[Chuckster]

I would like to thank Tony also for answering this question. The grandfathered locals issue has always confused me.

As for the superdish, it has 3 seperate dish pro LNBs which have no switching capability. That is why the dish pro 34 switch,or dish pro plus 44 switch, has to be used with the superdish.

 

[TerryK]

Thanks

Tony, thanks for the info. I remember seeing your answer to someone for the locals/distant question before but I could not find it again. Your explanation makes sense with what I have read elsewhere and what I have gleaned from Charlie Chats and Tech Forums over the years. I may not have to do anything until the end of the year. Perhaps the renewal of the SHIVA (?) will include a continuation of the grandfathering. I do not put much hope in what comes out of Washington D.C. ( or Austin for that matter )

Chuckster, guess I may have a DishPro Quad LNB to put on Ebay in the future. I will wait until things actually change before then.

 

[GaryPen]

IF you have one or more of the distant networks because you local stations issued you a waiver, or issued Dish a blanket waiver, you MAY lose one or more distant networks.

What I don't understand is why one would lose a distant, if they had a waiver from the local affiliate? What is the FCC or Legislature's rationale behind that?

 

[mike123abc]

What I don't understand is why one would lose a distant, if they had a waiver from the local affiliate? What is the FCC or Legislature's rationale behind that?

The station may have changed its "mind" and no longer grants them.

 

[waltinvt]

Doesn't "Grade B" change for HD ?

<snip>..........
IF you qualify outright (live in an area outside the grade B signal strength of all stations affiliated with each network) you will NOT lose your distants.
See ya
Tony

Tony,

With the transition to digital, shouldn't the whole "grade B" qualification thing be redefined ? Not to over simplify but basically your receiver either stays locked or it doesn't and if it stays locked the PQ is great, if it doesn't, no picture. I realize there's pixelization issues on border-line signals even when they lock but theoretically, arn't we talking a whole different issue with HD versions of networks?

HD doesn't have the same "subjective" PQ issues (ghosting, etc) that analog does, so it shouldn't require the same qualification system.

Wouldn't / shouldn't that be cause enough to seperate the qualification standards for getting distants into 2 seperate issues - analog & HD ?

WaltinVt

 

[talk000]

The station may have changed its "mind" and no longer grants them.

Maybe for blanket waivers, but do not see why this would apply to individual waivers that were granted on a personal facts and circumstances basis.

 

[Tony S]

TNGTony is correct. My situation was exactly like that of TerryK. I had been with E* since '97 and was grandfathered with the SHVA in regards to distant locals. When the Hartford locals became available, I lost FOX and CBS because I am in a grade A signal strength area. However, I was able to keep NBC and ABC because I am in a grade B area for these stations.

BTW, every couple of months E* automatically applies for waivers on my behalf. NBC always approves the waivers, and the other three networks always deny them. Even though ABC denies my waiver, I was able to keep ABC because of grandfathering. (In case you didn't know, you can view the results of the waiver requests that E* submits for you on the E* website).

 

[waltinvt]

Related DMA question

Regarding how Dish determines qualification for distants, how current is their database ?

Reason I ask, when I plug in my street & zip, I've always qualified for Fox & CBS. If I leave off the street number and just use the street name, I also qualify for NBC.

I've never qualified for ABC, which I could understand, because up until a couple of years ago, I could get a great OTA signal. However their transmitter on Mt Washington, NH was destroyed by a fire (This is channel 8, WMTW) and they relocated to Baldwin Me. Now I get absolutly no signal from them (or any other ABC) yet Dish still doesn't qualify me for distant ABC. Is it possible that Dish hasn't taken into account the current status of that station ?

WaltinVt

 

[TNGTony]

With the transition to digital, shouldn't the whole "grade B" qualification thing be redefined ?

That's up to congress to change the law. The SHVREA (Renewal of the SHVIA) will change the distant qualification process some. At this time it looks like if the local network station is available via satellite in a particular market, you will NOT qualify for that distant network. This is provider specific. So if you have Dish and they offer East BFE local ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox, you do NOT qualify for distant networks PERIOD. No waivers, no appeals, not "moving" if you want to get both locals and distants. And if your neigbor has DirecTV and they don't offer East BFE local channels, he may qualify for distnant networks using the old grade B qualification scheme.

BTW, The digital OTA channels don't "count" yet in qualifications, must carry or waivers. According to the SHVIA they do not exist. And just as a reminder, since there is no provision to allow satellite carriers to carry or not carry these channels, it is up to the program content owner (not necessarily the station) to make a deal with the satellite carrier to carry the channel. I don't know of any provision in new SHVREA, but that is still in the formative stages.

What I don't understand is why one would lose a distant, if they had a waiver from the local affiliate? What is the FCC or Legislature's rationale behind that?

You have to understand what a "waiver" is. This is a certificate saying that the local station waives it's exclusivity (as in excluding all others) in your case. It says, since I can't provide you programming I own, I am going to allow you to get the programming from another source. Now if my TV station finally becomes available to you, I can revoke the waiver because I can now provide you with my exclusive programming. A blanket waiver is more likely to be revoked when locals become available than individual waivers.

See ya
Tony

 

[GaryPen]

You have to understand what a "waiver" is. This is a certificate saying that the local station waives it's exclusivity (as in excluding all others) in your case. It says, since I can't provide you programming I own, I am going to allow you to get the programming from another source. Now if my TV station finally becomes available to you, I can revoke the waiver because I can now provide you with my exclusive programming. A blanket waiver is more likely to be revoked when locals become available than individual waivers.

I do understand what a waiver is. And, to me, it is not the local station saying that they can't provide the programming. It is them saying that even though they do provide the programming, they are WAIVING their right of exclusivity, and allowing me to also recieve it from a distant network.

After all, if they couldn't provide the programming, then most likely I live in an area that would automatically entitle me to receive a distant net without a waiver.

 

[Sparkman]

What I would like to see from SHVREA would be the ability for the satellite companies to deliver all locals for which you can recieve a Grade B signal. I am Grade A for 2 Chicago networks, ABC & FOX and Grade B for CBS & NBC. I am also Grade B for all 4 Milwaukee networks. I'd like to be able to subscribe to both, but I can't do that right now. Our local Comcast doesn't carry the Milwaukee, but the Time Warner cable in Kenosha carries both Milwaukee & Chicago locals. Would be nice if we could get that too.

 

[waltinvt]

BTW, The digital OTA channels don't "count" yet in qualifications, must carry or waivers. According to the SHVIA they do not exist. And just as a reminder, since there is no provision to allow satellite carriers to carry or not carry these channels, it is up to the program content owner (not necessarily the station) to make a deal with the satellite carrier to carry the channel. I don't know of any provision in new SHVREA, but that is still in the formative stages. <snip>........
See ya
Tony

If "according to SHVIA" the digitals "don't exist" then the governing factor for carrying them must be similar to whatever governed analog before SHIVA came along (reverts back to copyright issues) ?

Seems to me that until digital signals are specifically defined and addressed by the FCC, shouldn't satellite companies be allowed to provide an available distant HD network signal if they can work it out with the network ?

WaltinVt

 

[Peter Parker]

Ia m not sure what the rationale is but no waivers. In another forum the theory was presented that waivers are inconsistent and therefore unfair. i am not sure I follow that. Perhaps the ststiosn just dot want to have to turn you down.