MDU

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avbd

New Member
Oct 18, 2012
2
0
United States
I'm a residential and commercial dealer of DirecTV and have a few questions concerning an MDU hookup that our account managers and technical team were unable to answer/confirm. I'm hoping someone here has some professional insight, or can point me in the direction of the right people to ask while I wait and wait for a callback from our technical departments.

Here is the situation:
My company is being sought after to provide DirecTV installations on a building in my downtown city area. The contracting company who owns the building will be selling off each condo individually when they are finished. They want the building wired solely for DirecTV, but they -do not- plan on treating it as a normal MDU. This means they will be managing the property, but they're not going to be responsible for operating or managing a single DirecTV account that provides for everyone in the building via monthly fees. Each condo owner will be responsible for their own contract/install with DirecTV through my dealership or national. All they want is the building wired and fully setup for DirecTV, nothing more.

With the final release of the Genie software and the C31 clients, I want to make sure I provide full capabilities to each condo unit so they do not miss out on anything DirecTV has to offer if they choose to sign-up.

Building Layout:
- 7 storeys with the top 4 floors being residential, bottom 3 being commercial. (We're installing a separate dish/wiring and dropping lines for the bottom 3 commercial floors for future use, but that's the extent of it - so not
part of the issue)
- 5 condo units per floor for a total of 20 with each unit having 3-5 total homerun outlets to a communication box inside condo's own communication room
- 1 line from each condos communication room that deadend at a private electrical room on each floor (Each electrical room is directly above the next with open conduits between all floors)
- Building is roughly 55x55ft and the top 4 floors being 60ft tall. (So the single longest run from dish to a receiver would be around 100ft)

These are my initial thoughts/plans and wanted to get some confirmation and make sure it's the right kind of setup to allow Genie, C31's, etc. to function properly so each condo/customer can utilize their own networks, etc.

1. SL5 dish, both additional dishes for internationals on roof with 6 lines dropped into electrical room of the top floor.
2. Lines into a PI-6S then to a SA-6AL to keep the flow strong
3. Have an MST-771 cascaded down to each floor that is wired into an FMC-6 with a SWM8 for each condo unit on each of the floors
4. 8-way splitters in each condo's communication room so each unit has a max of 8 tuners to play with

Two basic questions is will this setup accomplish what it needs to accomplish, is it correct. The last time we did a major setup was before SWM was around. Is there another kind of setup I can use that would be more beneficial or 'desired'?

Thanks much in advance.
 

dishrich

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
3,290
342
Springfield, IL
avbd - just make SURE you/your company is planning on paying for ALL of this wiring upfront - since I believe D* NO longer has "independent dealers" installing/servicing MDU's, I assume you understand you will get ZERO subsidies from D* on this (upfront) install. You might want to think twice about even involving yourselves in this "messy" aspect; D* is getting VERY stringent about how MDU's are setup - exactly for the reasons we are bring up to you.

egnlsn is absolutely correct; if you go thru this like this, you ARE setting the building owners up for a lawsuit.

Also, have you or the building owners given ANY thought as to how all these residents will be able to get telephone &/or broadband (internet) service? There ARE people that still want convention landline phone service - which means you WILL need to account for a way for the local telephone co. to not only bring local dial tone into the building, but then get it up to all the units.

As far as broadband, that can usually be via DSL (local telephone co.) or cable TV modem. Even assuming BOTH are available at your location, you WILL have residents that will NOT want to deal with ANY type of satellite service - & will want cable TV &/or internet service from the local provider! This will usually mean you're going to need to run home run(s) coax cable to a central point(s), for the local cable provider to install service. Have you given any thought to this? While you can possibly make the coax do "double duty", again you might have residents that could want cable internet, & D* service - your wiring probably needs to take this in account.

Good luck.
 

egnlsn

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 22, 2007
260
1
Taylorsville, UT
Pull in an RG11 cable from ground floor electrical closet to the top floor electrical closet. That will be for the local CATV company, enabling them to provide service for those that prefer cable over satellite, as well as cable internet.

It would also be a good idea to pull in another RG11 from top to bottom, as there may very well be some who want only OTA.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
Not legal. As of just a few years ago, there can no longer be exclusivity in MDUs.

Umm..The building owner can do as they please. It is their choice to to with whichever system or wiring layout they wish. The condo owners would have no recourse provided they were informed of the TV setup before they buy.
As long as all parties understand the terms, it's legal.
Does that stop each owner from gaining access to other providers? No. That would be a violation of OTARD.
Now, the association can place legal barriers to protect their property such as limiting dish placement to OTARD rules. Or preventing any penetrations in the building structure( for cable or other satellite).
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
avbd - just make SURE you/your company is planning on paying for ALL of this wiring upfront - since I believe D* NO longer has "independent dealers" installing/servicing MDU's, I assume you understand you will get ZERO subsidies from D* on this (upfront) install. You might want to think twice about even involving yourselves in this "messy" aspect; D* is getting VERY stringent about how MDU's are setup - exactly for the reasons we are bring up to you.

egnlsn is absolutely correct; if you go thru this like this, you ARE setting the building owners up for a lawsuit.

Also, have you or the building owners given ANY thought as to how all these residents will be able to get telephone &/or broadband (internet) service? There ARE people that still want convention landline phone service - which means you WILL need to account for a way for the local telephone co. to not only bring local dial tone into the building, but then get it up to all the units.

As far as broadband, that can usually be via DSL (local telephone co.) or cable TV modem. Even assuming BOTH are available at your location, you WILL have residents that will NOT want to deal with ANY type of satellite service - & will want cable TV &/or internet service from the local provider! This will usually mean you're going to need to run home run(s) coax cable to a central point(s), for the local cable provider to install service. Have you given any thought to this? While you can possibly make the coax do "double duty", again you might have residents that could want cable internet, & D* service - your wiring probably needs to take this in account.

Good luck.
The OP made no mention of telco or broadband.
 

dishcomm

SatelliteGuys Master
Nov 29, 2005
10,381
544
suburbia
Pull in an RG11 cable from ground floor electrical closet to the top floor electrical closet. That will be for the local CATV company, enabling them to provide service for those that prefer cable over satellite, as well as cable internet.

It would also be a good idea to pull in another RG11 from top to bottom, as there may very well be some who want only OTA.

They do not have to do that. The OP may do the work as contracted. He is under no obligation to other providers. The building owner and NOT Directv is making the contract for installation.
The OP need not be concerned with the other aspects of tv, POTS or broadband
 

egnlsn

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 22, 2007
260
1
Taylorsville, UT
Umm..The building owner can do as they please. It is their choice to to with whichever system or wiring layout they wish. The condo owners would have no recourse provided they were informed of the TV setup before they buy.
As long as all parties understand the terms, it's legal.
Does that stop each owner from gaining access to other providers? No. That would be a violation of OTARD.
Now, the association can place legal barriers to protect their property such as limiting dish placement to OTARD rules. Or preventing any penetrations in the building structure( for cable or other satellite).

Ummm... Better check again. In October 2007, the FCC said they couldn't. The headline in the Multichannel News story read "FCC Bans Exclusive MDU Deals."[h=1][/h]
 

egnlsn

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 22, 2007
260
1
Taylorsville, UT
They do not have to do that. The OP may do the work as contracted. He is under no obligation to other providers. The building owner and NOT Directv is making the contract for installation.
The OP need not be concerned with the other aspects of tv, POTS or broadband
The OP need not do anything at all. However, if he wants to have the interests of current and future residents in mind, he should take all things into consideration. Nobody wants to be forced to get their service through one provider and one provider only. Sure, OTARD says the building's owner can't prohibit them from putting up an antenna (includes dish antenna) on their exclusive property. However, if they do not have an unobstructed view of the southern sky, they would be forced to get their service from whomever the building's owner says they must. That is contrary to what the FCC (in 2006) and, subsequently, the U.S. Court of Appeals (in 2007) ruled.

You'd be surprised at how many people decide where they live based on the TV service available.
 

Tyralak

SatelliteGuys Master
Oct 21, 2003
5,702
167
Secure, Undisclosed Location
Not legal. As of just a few years ago, there can no longer be exclusivity in MDUs.

Yes there can. If a contract is signed with a provider, there can absolutely be exclusivity. There are some exceptions, of course. Normal OTARD rules apply. Dish on the balcony sort of thing, and providers such as AT&T who use their own existing infrastructure can provide service. There are two types of contracts. Exclusive and co-exist. Co-exist means just that. Other systems can be installed on the same property. Cable, Dish, DirecTV, etc. Exclusive mean exactly what I wrote in the first part of my post.
 

sA :: Shaggy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 18, 2005
1,102
0
5701 S Santa Fe Dr
From the Quote you posted.

Dealing a major blow to Comcast, Time Warner Cable and other cable TV operators, the Federal Communications Commission voted Wednesday to ban operators from cutting exclusive deals with owners of apartment buildings, condominiums and other multiple dwelling units.

The key word here is CABLE. Dish and directv are not CABLE companies. Neither is ATT, or Verizon.
 

digiblur

SatelliteGuys Master
Jun 8, 2005
14,190
2
Louisiana
No need for an 8 way splitter. Splitter ports do not equal tuners. All depends on what is available on the SWM.

Sent from my C64 w/Epyx FastLoad cartridge
 
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