GEOSATpro microHD and multiple Diseqc switches - how to?

[Balock]

For whatever reason, my ECODA 22kHz switch (which fed two separate 4x1 diseqc switches) quit passing the 18V necessary to receive horizontal polarity signals. I verified this today by taking it in and out of the path directly to a single LNBF after also discovering a bad piece of coax in my switch matrix, which I replaced. I'm using two diseqc switches ATM because I have four active LNBFs (all are KU), each switch has at least one bad port and I've just been too cheap and lazy to replace them One switch is an EV-41A 4x1, while is a VisionSat SC-41B which was included with my VisionSat IV-200.

After removing the ECODA, I decided to try cascading the switches. The EV-41A is first in line from the receiver, with LNBFs on ports 1 and 4. The VisionSat SC-41B is connected to port 2 of the EV-41A, with LNBFs on ports 3 and 4. See the following diagram (as Doc Brown says, please excuse the crudity of this model ).



This works great with my IV 200 receiver. After modifying the switch settings for the two LNBFs attached to the second switch, I can see and receive channels on all four satellites (the list in my sig). The IV 200 has a handy "Distant" Diseqc switch setting in the dish setup screens that works like I expected it to.

Unfortunately, I can't figure out how to configure this in my microHD to see and control the second switch (the SC-41B). I can see the two sats attached to the EV-41A (91W/97W), but not the other two (87W/101W). The user's manual doesn't explain it (at least not that I can find or recognize). Knowing there's others on the board with much more switch experience than I, can someone give me some pointers on what to set in the microHD to work with this very simple setup (assuming that it can) while I order some replacement parts?

Thanks!

 

[jorgek]

My understanding is you cannot cascade diseqc switches it will not work. Replace the Ecoda they are not expensive.

 

[DJdish]

For multi switches, cascading, etc, Anole made a very comprehensive thread covering a number of setups.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/134124-Switch-setups-simplified

 

[Magic Static]

You can't cascade switches of the same type. ie two DiSEqC 1.0 (1x4). You can cascade DiSEqC 1.1 (1x8) with DiSEqC 1.0 (1x4) or 22khz.

 

[Balock]

Thanks guys...I figured it would be something like that. I'll order the new parts tomorrow and read through Anole's guide again (it's been a few months).

 

[updatelee]

Emp and spaun make really good quality switches.

UDL

 

[jorgek]

Is a 1x4 all you need? Or do you need more ports for adding more LNBs? Then a 1x8 rather than 2 of the 1x4 plus Ecoda.

 

[KE4EST]

I agree with above. I would get a good 8x1 switch.

 

[Balock]

An 8x1 was what I was planning on getting, and just ordered from your store along with a couple of 22kHz switches to replace the one that croaked. This'll give me some room to play around a bit once the weather gets warmer. For now I moved the 87W dish to the EV-41 switch so I can watch the LPB stations until the new switch comes in.

 

[KE4EST]

You will be happier.

 

[Balock]

The switches came in the mail today...thanks, Mike! After I finished working on my wife's van, I swapped out the old EV-41A 4x1 for the Amiko 8x1 switch, using the same port allocations to keep things simple. The new switch works great with my IV-200 after changing the dish settings to use Diseqc 1.1 (looks like the IV-200 only supports ports 1-4 with Diseqc 1.1--go figure). I consistently can see transponders and channels on all four satellites I currently have connected using that receiver. However, things are not so consistent with the microHD sometimes it sees the transponders and sometimes it doesn't. For instance, on 87W (which uses my P* 1.0M dish) I can tune to 12009 H where KTEL lives. No problem with the IV-200, but the microHD will sometimes show it and sometimes just says "No Signal" (signal level 45%, quality 0%). Same with the other channels on 87W as well as the others sats that my T55 dish points to (91W/97W/103W--just moved there yesterday from 101W).

The connection is the same between the two receivers...I'm just swapping the cable. I'm only running the 8x1 switch...there are no switches in front of or behind it, no barrel connectors, etc., nothing connected to ports 5-8. The Diseqc 1.1 options in the microHD are confusing to me...it's not clear which I should choose with just the 8x1 switch. "1 Cascade M1: Port 1", "1 Cascade M3: Port 4", "2 Cascades Port 1" and so on...no simple "Port 1", "Port 2", etc. Right now, I'm using "2 Cascades Port 1" through "2 Cascades Port 4" to (hopefully) select ports 1-4 on the switch. It seems to work, but that's where the inconsistency comes in and messes with me it's all or nothing. Sometimes I can go into the sat settings or the TP list and move back and forth betweens TPs and/or sats and a TP will suddenly become active when it wasn't just a few seconds before, and vice-versa.

My microHD has been historically consistent in reception on all the sats until the past couple of weeks, barring weather issues (today has been clear to partly cloudy, no rain at all and temps in the mid to upper 50's) and operator stupidity Any ideas on whether or not I'm doing something wrong here? Do I NEED to cascade another switch with a Diseqc 1.1? I also need to check out the microHD...the SAT IN port is a little loose, so I need to pop the cover and see if there's a loose solder joint or maybe try to solder the outside of the port to the RF shield it's crimped to.

Are there any switches that are known NOT to work well with the microHD?

 

[jorgek]

I certainly would have a closer look at the SAT IN connector. It should not be loose. A poor contact can give you all kinds of erratic behaviour.

 

[Balock]

I took apart the stb this afternoon and can see that the barrel of the SAT input is not solidly crimped to the RF shield surrounding the tuner IC. I can rotate the barrel by a degree or two with just my fingers.

The solder joint for the center conductor to the board appears good (no visible cracks, clean and shiny) but I'll verify it with my DMM later.

Although I might be able to tighten the barrel-shield crimp enough, I think I'll try to solder it as well. That or cannibalize an old VCR for an F-connector.


Posted via electronic smoke signal

 

[Balock]

Over the past couple of days, I've managed to work on the microHD and tighten the SAT IN connector's crimp, create a solid solder joint between it and the RF shield and also re-soldered the center pin to the board (just in case there was a hidden stress crack in the joint). The SAT IN connector is now solid--doesn't move/twist and the connection between it and the ground is good. Unfortunately, all this didn't solve the problems I've been encountering. So I spent some time this evening doing some troubleshooting with my voltmeter both at the STB and at the dish (while my fingers still had feeling) and believe that the microHD is not correctly controlling the DiSeqc switch. More correctly stated, I don't believe it is setting the switch to the correct port everytime that it should.

- The voltage values at the STB look good: Just 13.8/13.9V for vertical and 18.15V or so for horizontal. I get the same voltages at the far end of the cable (input to the switch). Those voltages are consistently correct when selecting different transponders on different satellites. Curious thing here: The voltages ouitput for 97W are even higher--14.1V vertical, 18.25/18.3 horizontal. I can't explain it except that in my setup 97W is using an Avenger Universal PLL LNBF, so 22kHz is on. The other three LNBFs are geoSatPro SL1-PLLs.
- The voltage values at the LNBF side of the switch are just slightly less than the input by maybe .2V or so (now just shy of 18V for horizontal). The voltages are not always present on the appropriate port for a particular satellite/transponder selection.
- The switch currently in use is the new Amiko 8x1 DiSeqc 1.1 switch I purchased last week.
- These tests were performed without an LNB connected to the port being tested.

I focused my tests on 91W, tuning to 12010 V to pull in ABC NewsOne which was the first signal I noticed the problems with. When I first tune to the sat and NewsOne (or it's sister channel on the same transponder), I get a "No Signal" screen from the STB and the signal levels show 45%/0% level/quality. In the Satellite Setting/TP List screens in the menu, I see the same sig/qual levels for the vertical transponders when first selecting the 91W sat. However, if I then select a horizontal transponder and then back to 12010 V, suddenly I have 90%/70% sig/qual and can then watch the two channels if I exit from the menus. If I tune to another sat and come back, I get a "No Signal" condition again. I can consistently reproduce this. When testing the voltages using a jumper in place of the LNBF, I saw the 0V is present when I first tune to the sat/transponder (coming from another sat), after waiting long enough to ensure that signaling and switch should have completed. The voltage remained at zero until I tuned to a horizontal transponder on the same sat, at which point it jumped to 17.9V. I could then tune back to 12010V and the voltage fell to 13.8V or so and remained on (which is what was allowing me to then watch the channels). My fingers were getting numb by this time (I was outside using my old original Slingbox with my Android phone to control the microHD), so I didn't get to test any other ports on that switch.

Back indoors, I repeated the votlages tests (and more) using my old EV-41A switch (DiSeqC 1.0) after reprogramming the dish settings for DS 1.0. The results were a little different, but still do not match what I expect to happen in a correctly-functioning system: With the DiSeqC 1.0 switch, I would see only the horizontal voltages on the port programmed for 91W (Port 3)...whenever I chose a vertical transponder, the voltage at that port dropped to 0V. A little extra testing showed me that Port 1 was getting the vertical voltage even though I was choosing transponders for a satellite programmed for Port 3. I also saw the same results with satellites on other ports (at least the ports that work on that old switch). I repeated these tests using my VisionSat receiver (IV-200 PVR) and the same switch and it performed as I expected it to: Vertical and horizontal voltages were sent to the correct ports every time. It also puts out approx 20V for horizontal and just above 14V for vertical.

The microHD is using the latest firmware (from June 2013). I have performed a factory reset and extended power cord removal to no avail. My next step will be to see if I can reload the firmware (maybe something got scrambled--we did have a power surge during the last deep freeze, about the time the problems started, I think). If that doesn't work (or I can't reload it), I'll contact Eugene and see if it's worth the effort to send the STB in for testing/repair--it's one of the original batch so it's out of any warranty. It may be better to just buy a replacement unit.

 

[jorgek]

Sorry to hear you are still struggling with the problem. If you bypass the switches does it all work?
Also how long are the cable runs. Long runs of cable can cause issues with the Discq commands.
Some 22khz switches do not pass Disq commands. The Ecoda does pass Disqu okay.

Do you have another STB you can try?

 

[Balock]

jorgek,

There's currently no 22kHz switch in line...only the new Amiko 8x1 is between the STB and the dishes. One piece of cable to switch, one piece of coax from the switch to each LNBF. The only 22kHz switches I have are ECodas.

I'll have to retest bypassing the switch and going directly to the LNBFs...I didn't get a chance to do that yesterday. The cable run to the new switch is <50', probably closer to 30' (the dishes are just outside my sunroom/office and are ~6' apart). I have tested with a separate piece of new cable and had the same results (not the voltage test, just trying to watch the channels). When I was testing the EV-41A switch on my bench, it was connected directly to the STB with a known good 3' piece of coax, with a short stub (~1') on the LNBF ports to hook the voltmeter to. Definitely NOT a long cable run there I'll bring the new Amiko 8x1 switch back inside to perform the same voltage tests I ran with the EV-41A. That being said, I don't expect that the switch is a problem.

The only other STB I have is a VisionSat IV-200. As mentioned in my previous posts, when it is connected in place of the microHD everything works as expected. The correct ports are selected, I have no problem tuning any transponder or watching a signal that STB can decode (it's only DVB-S and SD capable). On the bench voltage tests with the EV-41A switch, I saw exactly what I expected: when not tuned to a sat, the port for that sat had no voltage (0V) present. When I then tuned to the sat, voltage appears on its port and is correct for the selected polarity. When changing transponders on the same sat, I see the voltage change correctly when the polarity is changed. When I tune away to another sat, the voltage returns to 0V on the port I just left. Again, exactly what I expect it to do and what I would also expect the microHD to do as well (and that it isn't). As noted in my previous post, the IV-200's output voltage levels are a little higher than those of the microHD.

I haven't tested the microHD's power supply under load yet...another thing to put on the list to check off. The unloaded output is 12.17V (just now tested that). I have a standalone 12V supply I use with my ham radios that I could hook up here as well, but it's in use on a different desk where I'm working on a friend's APRS trackers.

Unfortunately, I don't have a way to view or decode the DiSeqC commands being sent out by the STBs, so I can't tell if the commands themselves are incorrect or if the signal is somehow corrupted. It's largely been a process of elimination, ruling out causes such as bad cables, connectors, etc.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. It'd be easy for me to miss something, so the additional info is appreciated.

 

[KE4EST]

Just saw you were having problems. When I tested one of these switches awhile back it switched great. The only thing though is I can't remember if I was using a microHD in testing.

 

[Balock]

Thanks, Mike. I just disconnected it and brought it inside to do some bench testing. Works great with the IV-200, switching exactly like the EV-41A did and like I would expect it to...correct voltages on the correct ports. However, not so with the microHD . This time, it appeared to never switch ports...everything was sent to Port 1 no matter which sat I selected--the voltages were correct, just always only on Port 1. With both STBs, I made sure I had setup the DiSeqC 1.1 ports like I had the sats connected outside (to ports 1-4--that's all the IV-200 will support, even with DS 1.1): Port 1-103W, Port 2-87W, Port 3-91W, Port 4-97W. In the microHD, I am selecting "2 Cascades Port #" in the DiSeqC 1.1 dropdown. In the IV-200, I select just the port number in the DiSeqC 1.1 dropdown (only option I have there). The two screenshots below show the difference in options.

Again, I don't believe it's the switch, cables, etc...I'm about to try and reload the latest firmware in the microHD to see if it helps, but I'm not holding my breath. I have a suspicion that the power surge we had a few weeks ago during our deep freeze (overloaded distribution circuit on the west side of town gave out) may have fried something. I think it may have also gotten my Astron 50A 12V supply...it's not worked since roughly that time as well and I haven't been able to get it to reset.

 

[catamount]

The micro HD is known to have problems with PLL lnb's, but usually over long runs. If you have a DRo lnb, switch it out with one of the PLL's and see how that switches. Titanium has a new ku Pll with a lower current draw.

Catamount


EDit: Just saw your post. Did you try using diseque 1. Aren't those switches backward compatible?

 

[Balock]

Catamount: The only DROs I have are a dual-output (H/V) Primestar that came on one of my 1.0M dishes (not in use) and a geoSatPro C2 which I've not used yet (I need to get a decent-sized dish for it). The Primestar worked fine the last time I used it on 87W, the only reason I'm not using it right now is that I had too much voltage drop to switch to horizontal polarity in one of my previous switch matrixes (may have been STB->22kHz->DiSEqC 4x1->2x4 MultiSwitch->LNBF). I've thought about putting it back in now that I have the 8x1 to see if I can run it correctly. So far all of my PLL LNBFs have been running great with my microHD, but I have an admittedly short cable run.

Just finished trying to use DiSEqC 1.0 settings with the 8x1...it did not work with either STB, so that switch is apparently not recognizing 1.0 commands. With the IV-200, as soon as I enabled 1.1 for a port, that port came to life on the switch. Still no response with the microHD when doing the same.

Back to work for the afternoon, then maybe give it a shot this evening. Supposed to have some rain over the next week starting tomorrow, so need to get stuff buttoned back up before it starts.