Mirroring off a Joey

Toggle sidebar
Scherrman

Scherrman

SatelliteGuys Master
Original poster
Supporting Founder
Mar 14, 2008
15,555
9,951
Eastern Iowa
Does anyone here have much experience mirroring off of a Joey? It was to my knowledge that the only way you could mirror off of a Joey was to use an RF modulator and have a second coax cable to run out to the other TVs. The use of diplexers does not work with the Hopper system.

Yesterday I was told that you could mirror off a Joey with one cable by using a Tap instead of a diplexer. If that's true then this helps a ton. Has anyone done this before?
 
Scherrman said:
Yesterday I was told that you could mirror off a Joey with one cable by using a Tap instead of a diplexer. If that's true then this helps a ton. Has anyone done this before?
Click to expand...

I fail to see how that could work. Maybe I'm not grasping which way the tap is connected...

How about this ploy? Put your Joey on your LAN, and use the MOCA cable for your modulator.

And I have another thought which might have better PQ than an RF modulator. How about plugging the Joey A/V jacks into a wireless A/V transmitter? Usually these things come in pairs (transmitter and receiver), but I have one that I have never used which is just a transmitter. It's a tiny NTSC broadcast box. I only saw them on the market briefly; maybe they're not according to regs or something.
 
Looking at it, it doesn't make sense because of it's intended use but apparently it can pass through the signal like a diplexer. To me it's similar to using a splitter to combine signal, it's intended to split a signal but you can use it backwards to combine signals. Most would have no idea just by looking at it and knowing it's intended use.
 
If a tap is a ~0-3000 Mhz 2-1 (or 1-2) device, I could see how injecting an RF modulated signal would work. I can also see how it would throw RF signal (ch 3 or 4) onto the same coax lines as the Sat and MOCA signals are passing, at the various frequencies, which if I'm not mistaken, are above those of ch 3 or 4. I don't know if that would cause any problems, esp with the lower frequency portion of the MOCA band; but it might.

That being said works great with non hopper because the diplexors combine and split the frequencies at the necessary points.

I'd love to upgrade to the hopper, but don't yet need a joey for a second TV. I do use RF out from my 722 to feed my 2nd TV and I do diplex that signal. I wonder if I could throw in an RF modulator to a hopper and send that signal to my 2nd TV?

Miner
 
You can use an RF modulator on a Hopper just the same as a Joey but if you're trying the Tap method I was describing I think it works different.

We mirror TVs on the majority of our installs because people always have an extra TV they rarely watch. If this way works then it solves a big issue we've been having.
 
I don't think the signal path is directional in a tap like a splitter is intended to be. I bet that using taps like diplexers it is possible. I now am thinking of attempting this on my own Hopper set up. Ill be able to deactivate 1 Joey if this is possible.

Although I think the wireless AV transmitter would be you easiest best bet.
 
Alright, I just tried it and it worked! The only problem is that the picture was terrible, extremely snowy. We put an amplifier in and it helped but it's still pretty snowy.
 
Scherrman said:
You can use an RF modulator on a Hopper just the same as a Joey but if you're trying the Tap method I was describing I think it works different.

We mirror TVs on the majority of our installs because people always have an extra TV they rarely watch. If this way works then it solves a big issue we've been having.
Click to expand...

Are you backfeeding the RF on the SAT signal?
 
Scherrman said:
Does anyone here have much experience mirroring off of a Joey? It was to my knowledge that the only way you could mirror off of a Joey was to use an RF modulator and have a second coax cable to run out to the other TVs. The use of diplexers does not work with the Hopper system.

Yesterday I was told that you could mirror off a Joey with one cable by using a Tap instead of a diplexer. If that's true then this helps a ton. Has anyone done this before?
Click to expand...

I've done something similar to this but not in the exact manner you need. Had a customer that had a kitchen tv but didn't want the joey on the countertop and didn't care about hd.
There was an existing wall plate in the kitchen at what had previously been a tv2. I put the "kitchen" joey next to a hopper in the basement. Node to diplexor sat feed. I/O to second diplexor I/O, sat to tap. Host to hopper, client to joey. RF modulator to UHF on diplexor #2, back down the line to the first diplexor and on to the kitchen tv.

Being able to locate the joey and the hopper at one location with the tap and the 2nd diplexor was the key, otherwise you would still have to run a second line from the rf modulator to the diplexor.

My guess is the rf and moca frequencies are too close together and that's what is causing your crappy picture. I never really have the time to play around with this stuff in the field but I've got some extra parts laying around the house so i'll mess around with it a little bit.
 
satnewb said:
I've done something similar to this but not in the exact manner you need. Had a customer that had a kitchen tv but didn't want the joey on the countertop and didn't care about hd.
There was an existing wall plate in the kitchen at what had previously been a tv2. I put the "kitchen" joey next to a hopper in the basement. Node to diplexor sat feed. I/O to second diplexor I/O, sat to tap. Host to hopper, client to joey. RF modulator to UHF on diplexor #2, back down the line to the first diplexor and on to the kitchen tv.

Being able to locate the joey and the hopper at one location with the tap and the 2nd diplexor was the key, otherwise you would still have to run a second line from the rf modulator to the diplexor.

My guess is the rf and moca frequencies are too close together and that's what is causing your crappy picture. I never really have the time to play around with this stuff in the field but I've got some extra parts laying around the house so i'll mess around with it a little bit.
Click to expand...

This config would seem to indicate that from the Hopper port on the node to the tap is only signal that is greater than ~850 MHz which is what the Diplexor filters. In other words the MOCA between the Hopper and Joey does not go down the I/O coax back to the node, only to the TAP. This would seem to say I could backfeed an RF Modulator signal (3 or 4) on the same coax, as long as any Joeys are on the Hopper side of the diplexor / tap. Looking at some of the hopper wiring diagrams, the frequency of the 3rd band of sat signal is 2500-3000 MHz, which may be attenuated by the diplexor's 2150 MHz rating. The dish diagrams also show MOCA signal (650-875 MHz) on the line between the Tap and Node, but that would be filtered by a standard diplexor.

Miner
 
Last edited:
Joey Mirror.png

This is what we did
 
We just worked on this some more and found out some interesting things. We were able to replace the Taps with high frequency splitters and it continued to work. We also took out the amplifier and RF modulator and replaced it with a micro modulator. By doing this we were able to change the channel output to channel 73 and that cleared up the picture drastically. After we cleaned up the picture quality we ran it through out distribution box and had a pretty good looking picture on all the TVs in out TV room.

So with the addition of the micro modulator and two Taps you can mirror a Joey just like you use to mirror off of a dual tuner using just a single coax. The modulator we used was a Holland HMM-10H Commercial Grade Micro Modulator. It was one we had in stock and they sell for around $60-70. There may be cheaper ones available on the market.
 
From what I'm seeing (on the Hopper/Joey System Job Aid) the signal from the client port on the node (or on a tap) is MOCA only, 650-875 MHz, no DC voltage. This is why RG-59 can be used from a client port to a Joey as 650-875 MHz is pretty much good old fashioned UHF signal. As such, a standard splitter would also work in your situation as there is no Hi-freq or voltage on that line. And if a Tap attenuats signal <650 MHz, the Tap may be working against you with respect to the RF signal.

From looking into it, using an RF modultaor and backfeeding it onto the main Hopper Coax is doable, even if not supported, esp if using the Hopper by itself with network connection via ethernet (wired or wireless), with the tap working as a type of diplexor and the solo node acting as the service panel diplexor.

Perhaps I have an upgrade path for my 722 setup. Still only SD to TV2 but far fewer DVR and/or Sling conflicts.

Miner
 
Scherrman said:
We just worked on this some more and found out some interesting things. We were able to replace the Taps with high frequency splitters and it continued to work. We also took out the amplifier and RF modulator and replaced it with a micro modulator. By doing this we were able to change the channel output to channel 73 and that cleared up the picture drastically. After we cleaned up the picture quality we ran it through out distribution box and had a pretty good looking picture on all the TVs in out TV room.

So with the addition of the micro modulator and two Taps you can mirror a Joey just like you use to mirror off of a dual tuner using just a single coax. The modulator we used was a Holland HMM-10H Commercial Grade Micro Modulator. It was one we had in stock and they sell for around $60-70. There may be cheaper ones available on the market.
Click to expand...

As you were posting this update, I was writing my response suggesting using regular splitters.

I thought about the quality of RF modulators, esp the very low frequency of 3-4, possibly contributing to the poor picture quality; but hadn't got that far in my thought process.
 
rwjga

Hopper Error Message 833

  • rwjga
  • Replies: 5
B

Upgrading to HWS got a EHD question

  • bbeanpin
  • Replies: 18

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 0, Members: 0, Guests: 0)

Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 1)

Share this page

Share this page
Top