Never trust a hayes manual (1 Viewer)

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Van

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Jul 8, 2004
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Last year a good year tire center stripped out the oil pan drain on my van and after refusing to fix it I installed an oversized plug with a drain in it. Two weeks ago a midas shop tried to sell me on a rethread with a new oversized plug for $70 wich I called a no go as the only way to get the shavings out is to drop the pan.

Last week I found a large oil pool under my van and find that the midas shop greese monkey had wrenched the hell out of the whole plug assembly and stripped the threads out most definitely on purpose because you dont have to loosen the larger bolt just the smaller inner bolt but this guy did it anyways.

Today Im out in my parents driveway ( fire ant free ) and started removing the pan when I ran into a seal on a plate that is on the trans. I looked up this plate in the hayes manual and reading on it find that the manual says that in order to take out the oil pan I have to remove the transaxle and get some special tools to not only take off this plate on the trans but to hold it in place. So now Im royaly ticked off, I had already removed the three bolts when I thought by looking at the plate closer that it indeed did encompas the transaxle housing for the drive shaft that runs to the driver side but when I reached up to put the first bolt back in the plate moved and dropped down and came out so I was able to replace the oil pan.

It makes you think that with the hayes manual telling the home mechanic that he needs to seperate part of the trans from the engine that they are trying to get him/her/me to just take the vehicle to a dealership or repair shop and spend $400 to replace a $70 part.
 
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Foxbat

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Heh-heh, Haynes Manuals... I had one for my 1982 Audi Coupe. It must have been written in England because there were references to boots, bonnets, fusable links, etc. Oh, and tyres. Can't forget the tyres!
 
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tonyp56

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1) If Goodyear stripped, you should have pressed issue more. They have insurance for this kind of thing, they should have paid to have fixed professionally.

2) What did you expect at Midas? Them to fix your rig up? Anytime you plug a plug with a plug, you're just asking for trouble. Temporary fixes are just that, temporary.

3) You paid what for Haynes book? $20 or so? How many vehicles does it cover? I'd imagine all trucks or cars of your make (Dodge, Chevy, Ford, etc.) during a 5 or so year span. These books are not supposed to be the fix all book, they are simply an overview. You want better, go buy the shop manual for your vehicle (Covers your vehicle only, usually only for certain year, though sometimes might cover a few years) for about $80-$200.

4) Do you know how many shavings are in your oil right now? Dropping oil pan to get rid of some that will never come in contact with moving parts is a little extreme (they would have stayed at bottom of oil pan, most newer cars have magnet tacked onto bottom of oil pan to keep shavings out of oil flow, but even if not, shavings are heavier than oil and will sink to bottom and every oil pump sump I've seen has screen on it to stop objects from being sucked up into oil pump and pumped throughout motor). You could have flushed it with a quart or two of oil if it concerned you that much.

And finally 5), why did you wait until after you started disassembling to look at haynes book anyways? Should have been first thing you did. Haynes manuals also tells home mechanics to remove negative battery cable when working on vehicle. How many out there really do that? My point is, just because book says it, don't mean you have to do it. Sometimes there is a better way of doing things. Perhaps, on another model (different year or different model) pulling transmission is absolutely necessary. Don't forget, manual don't cover just your car.
 

Van

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Jul 8, 2004
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1. You gotta prove it and when the vehicle has 120k thats hard to do, its considered normal wear.

2. What I expected was to get my oil changed, not have a greese monkey try shoving a repair at me that I had to repeatedly tell them no on. The primary body of the plug that I had installed is not to be pulled out, there is an inner plug that is used to do the draining, the guy wrenched it down so hard that after I got the pan down I used a 19mm wrench and an 11mm wrench with a foot long pipe on it to get the inner plug to break free.

3. Actually its model specific covering years 96 through 00 and not the old hayes manuals that are the size of gothic bibles, last one of those I saw was for all vehicles American made year 1965.

4. Actually yes I do and that was when I dropped the pan basicly zero, I've never seen a magnet in an oil pan but every time I've dropped a trans pan theres one in the bottom.

5. I've worked on cars both as a necesity and professonaly since the 80's and when I have had to refer to the manuals was for torque specs and some minor wiring chasing. In this instance what I was pointing out was that a manual from a company that has been long in the business of making this type of product dropped the ball in its directions for removing the transmission when it was not necesary. Consider it a bit of advice to becareful when following the directions in any manual, even the factory manuals can be wrong and I found one that was off on its torque specs when I worked at a volvo dealer.

Most vehicle repairs do call for the person doing the repair to remove the negative cable, its a safety measure as well as preventative from doing damage to the electrical system. And your right just because the book says to do it doesnt mean you have to do it, in this case when I checked the section for removeal of the oil pan it was specific on going to the section relating to removing the lower drive plate.
 

Krapola

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Jan 10, 2006
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1. You gotta prove it and when the vehicle has 120k thats hard to do, its considered normal wear.

2. What I expected was to get my oil changed, not have a greese monkey try shoving a repair at me that I had to repeatedly tell them no on. The primary body of the plug that I had installed is not to be pulled out, there is an inner plug that is used to do the draining, the guy wrenched it down so hard that after I got the pan down I used a 19mm wrench and an 11mm wrench with a foot long pipe on it to get the inner plug to break free.

3. Actually its model specific covering years 96 through 00 and not the old hayes manuals that are the size of gothic bibles, last one of those I saw was for all vehicles American made year 1965.

4. Actually yes I do and that was when I dropped the pan basicly zero, I've never seen a magnet in an oil pan but every time I've dropped a trans pan theres one in the bottom.

5. I've worked on cars both as a necesity and professonaly since the 80's and when I have had to refer to the manuals was for torque specs and some minor wiring chasing. In this instance what I was pointing out was that a manual from a company that has been long in the business of making this type of product dropped the ball in its directions for removing the transmission when it was not necesary. Consider it a bit of advice to becareful when following the directions in any manual, even the factory manuals can be wrong and I found one that was off on its torque specs when I worked at a volvo dealer.

Most vehicle repairs do call for the person doing the repair to remove the negative cable, its a safety measure as well as preventative from doing damage to the electrical system. And your right just because the book says to do it doesnt mean you have to do it, in this case when I checked the section for removeal of the oil pan it was specific on going to the section relating to removing the lower drive plate.

5. I've worked on cars both as a necesity and professonaly since the 80's and when I have had to refer to the manuals was for torque specs and some minor wiring chasing.

Boast experience, amateur complaint.....:rolleyes:
 

Ramy

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I had Wal-Mart change my oil in a Kia Rio all the time and finally they stripped out the bolt and tried a over sized plug for a while but eventually they had to replace the oil pan. They never gave me any trouble about it either. I never had to make them do it, because like someone else said they have to replace it when it happens under their care.
 
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Van

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Jul 8, 2004
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Virginia Beach
I spent a month going round for round with the good year shop on it and it finally came down them saying they werent going to pay for it and if I didnt like it to get a lawyer and Im not spending a few grand for a $70 replacement part.

Walmarts a diferent company as compared to a company like good year and alot of the shops are franchise shops, all of Walmarts stores are company owned and thusly they are more strictly managed.
 
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