Newb Satellite Question

[Mongo53]

Everyone, I'm new to the board. I'm utterly disgusted with COMCAST and looking for Satellite. I have some tech question about Satellite that I really haven't found answers to with some google searches or literature on the websites, hopefully they are appropriate here. BTW, I'm leaning heavily toward Dish Network, so keep that in mind as you answer.

How many receivers can be connected to a Dish?
I "think" I get the RH/LH polarization thing, and most Dishes today have a dual LNB, and with a dual LNB you can connect multiple receivers and receive all channels. The thing I don't get, can a single LNB only receive one channel at a time, or multiple channels to multiple receivers (well even or odd)? i.e. 4 receivers connected to a single dual LNB dish, can channel 4 separate channels all at the same time (yes, I understand I need a mulit-switch)?

If that is true, what limits the number of receivers you can connect to a single dual LNB switch? If its just the number of drops on the Multi-Switch, can more than one Multi-Switch be connected to a single dish to produce more drops?

I see dishes with 2 or 3 LNB's (assume each is a dual LNB) on them, and each LNB is described as an angle. At first I assumed the additional LNB's were for supply extra receivers, 2 receiver per LNB, now I'm getting the impression the additional LNB's are actually oriented slightly different, to pick up multiple satellites with a single dish. Which is it, more LNB's to service more recievers, or more LNB's to receive multiple satellites while using a single dish? If its to receive multiple satellites, why? Customers getting additional packages, have to connect to additional satellites to get the extra channels?

I'm looking at Dish Network, 5 receivers all able to receive different channels at the same time. Can this be done with a single Dish and 2 multi-switchs (haven't seen a 8 drop multi-switch for Dish Network yet) ?

 

[Mr Tony]

There is no "definite" answer because it varies depending on what your setup is via the provider. I'll start with basic and go a little more elaborate

Directv has 4 dishes
-18" with dual LNB...sees one sat (101)...used for most SD only installs
-Phase III has 4 outputs and sees 3 sats 101/110/119...some locals are on 119. 110 is vacant right now
-Slimline can see 3 or 5 sats (99/101/103 or 99/101/103/110/119). Older slimline have 4 outputs..newer has 1 (called the SWM)...99 & 103 are HD sats

On a 18" dish you can get multiswitches that allow you to put more than 2 receivers on a dish. The multiswitch allows you to have different receivers on different polarities. Biggest multiswitch I've seen is a 2x16 (16 outputs) but honestly the numbers are endless as you use high frequency splitters and cascade multiswitches. Apartment complexes probably have 100 outputs if they wanted

The Phase III has 4 outputs already. If you needed more you can add a 4x8 multiswitch to it. You need a 4x one because there is an internal switch in the LNB already to switch between 101 & 110/119

Older slimlines with 4 outputs are just like the Phase III but the only switch that works with these are 6x8 switches. You only use 4 inputs but the switch has something in it

SWM setups are the easiest. They have one cable in and a splitter to go to other rooms. This is the closest thing to "cable setups" there are


Since you mentioned Dish Network at the end with 5 receivers the answer is yes it can be done...and one dish actually.
Dish Network has dual tuner units that 2 different TV's can see 2 different shows.

So they would set you up with 2 dual tuner units (for 4 TV's) and one single tuner. Dish Network uses DishProPlus technology so the dual tuner units only need one cable from the dish

so 3 cables from the roof into the house to 3 receivers. No multiswitch needed. But if you wanted to expand yes there are multiswitches (the DPP44+ and the DPP33) that can be cascaded

 

[Mongo53]

Wow, thanks for all the info, still a bit confused.

Dish Network, Dual Tuners? is that a Dual Reciever or Dual LNB on the dish? Unfortunately, none of the cable co's or satellite co's every explain any technical details of their service or products on the websites or literature. Best I can tell from Dish Network is that their dual recievers still need 2 coax cables running to the reciever, if NOT they are still pretty inconvient because 1) only one TV can get HD, the the other only SD 2) you need to run a coax connection to the other TV in another room. I'd much prefer 5 seperate recievers, I hope dish network will give me that option.

I guess I need to learn what satellites I need to see to get the package I want to get, which will tell me what antenna I will need. Then I can figure out how to connect up the 5 recievers to that single dish antenna.

I saw a 3rd party 3X8 multiswitch that says it can work with Dish Network, only seen 4X4 multiswitches branded for Dish Network.

Eitherway, I guess, I have to talk to Dish Network, have them give me as close to as what I want to for the free install. Then do the rest myself, because its reasonable to expect there is some limit on what they do for a free install.

Biggest point for me, location of the dish, I'm sure they'll want to put it on the roof even though at best it will barely clear the trees and will likely be obscured in a few years. 2ft above the highest point on my roof is 27° elevation to clear the tree line behind my home to the southwest (I'm located 50 mi southeast of DC) southwest at 27° is what I looked up for most of Dish Networks satellites. I have a road and High School parking lot and athletic fields on the other side of my tree line.

Instead of having a dish on the most conspicous spot on my roof, quite visible from the front of the home. I'm thinking it might be wiser to set up a dish at the other edge of the tree line, with a clear shot to the southwest sky, it would require setting up a solid pole and buying probably 150' of Coax (its a narrow but tall tree line, close to the house), perhaps amps on the lines since its over 100'. I doubt a free install would cover that ellaborate of a setup, I'd think at least if I mount pole (in a cement pour) and bury the coax from the house to the pole, they'd do it, but I have to figure out how much.

 

[Mr Tony]

Dish Network, Dual Tuners? is that a Dual Reciever or Dual LNB on the dish?

dual tuner....as in 2 separate tuners built into one unit. My dad has one and he can watch Speed in the garage while the g/f watches say Lifetime

Best I can tell from Dish Network is that their dual recievers still need 2 coax cables running to the reciever,

nope. The dual tuner units only use one cable into the house. The way the LNB's are setup it allows them to run one line and then at the back of the receiver add a separator (looks like a splitter but it isnt)

if NOT they are still pretty inconvient because 1) only one TV can get HD, the the other only SD 2) you need to run a coax connection to the other TV in another room. I'd much prefer 5 seperate recievers, I hope dish network will give me that option.

they might if you buy the equipment. I dont know how that works when you lease

I guess I need to learn what satellites I need to see to get the package I want to get, which will tell me what antenna I will need. Then I can figure out how to connect up the 5 recievers to that single dish antenna.

I saw a 3rd party 3X8 multiswitch that says it can work with Dish Network, only seen 4X4 multiswitches branded for Dish Network.

3x8 wont work with Dish Network. They use switched that are like DPP44, DPP33 etc

Eitherway, I guess, I have to talk to Dish Network, have them give me as close to as what I want to for the free install. Then do the rest myself, because its reasonable to expect there is some limit on what they do for a free install.

you might want to talk with a local retailer to see what they can do.

Biggest point for me, location of the dish, I'm sure they'll want to put it on the roof even though at best it will barely clear the trees and will likely be obscured in a few years. 2ft above the highest point on my roof is 27° elevation to clear the tree line behind my home to the southwest (I'm located 50 mi southeast of DC) southwest at 27° is what I looked up for most of Dish Networks satellites. I have a road and High School parking lot and athletic fields on the other side of my tree line.

Actually they'd put you on Eastern Arc which is satellites at 61.5/72/77 longitude so using DC as the location the elevation is about 44 which is higher and would work

 

[Mr Tony]

also since you have mentioned Dish I moved this to the dish forum so more folks will see this

 

[gadgetguru63]

Dish will let you lease 3 receivers for a total of 6 rooms. If you want HD in every room, you will have to buy 3 receivers and lease 3 receivers. This will be very expensive. Using an Eastern Arc dish (1000.4 it's called) will run up to 3 dual tuner receivers. More receivers would require 3 separate LNBs running to a switch (or 2).

 

[sca]

yes, dont confuse receivers with 'tuners'. a standard dish network dish will allow for 6 tuners (or 3 receivers) - and allow you to watch six different channels on six tv's. make sense? this can be complicated by the number of hd tv's you have. only 3 of the 6 will be able to view hd programming in this scenario.

the install for this is free, if they cant do it you dont pay so it doesnt hurt to set up an appointment.

 

[Mongo53]

Thanks for all the help guys, and the patience with my inexperience.

1 Coax to a Dual Tuner Reciever: this does NOT jive with what I've learned so far, in fact a few install docs I've seen for dish network show 2 coax running to their dual tuners. Is this the result of the DishPro Technology? Starting to sound like to me, they build in a lot of the features/components of multi-switches into the LNB's and recievers to avoid using Multi-Switches inbetween them. So I guess, a Duo Vip 222k can have a single coax going to the satellite and tune 2 seperate channels to 2 seperate outputs. Any limitation, like both channels have to be on the same polarization, OR its unlimited, get any combination of channel/tuner, they've managed to combined all on the same coax?

Lease vs Buy receivers: The Recievers I get free with the installation, they are actually leased? I'll have to pay monthly fees for those recievers. Do I have the option to buy my recievers and NOT pay monthly fees for them? A quick google search shows Dish Recievers on sale all over for very reasonable prices, granted some or used or refurbished. Can I buy a reciever, hook it up and activate it with my service? As long as its a Duo Vip 222k, I can buy it and avoid lease fees?

Actually, 3 dual tuner recievers may work for me, I have 3 TV's with a dual tuner Recorder, it would leave me room to add another TV in the future.

Now my odd ball out of the ordinary for my setup: HTPC, basically a 3rd party digital recorder. I'd like to connect it to a dual tuner, control it with an IR blaster. Seen some other threads indicating its very possible to control both tuners with the IR port. Granted, the 2nd tuner will be SD. Granted there is NO off the shelf equipment right now for a HTPC to recieve HD, other than clearqam/atsc. BUT, it likely will be in the future, if they ever work out the DRM issues and I can get a cheap piece of hardware to let me recieve the HD. For the moment, I'd be stuck with SD on both outputs, which would also NOT be violating any of the content provider concerns about digital recording, at least as I undertand them.

Will an installer give me a problem about a HTPC, i.e. copyright, NOT inteded for their service, etc reasons, OR is the installer just interested in getting the install done, he's NOT going to get overly concerned about how I'm going to use the receiver. Granted I'd be responsible to get this odd ball combo working NOT the installer. I'm more concerned the Installer would refuse to leave the receiver behind and tell me your NOT allowed to hook this up to that.

 

[Mr Tony]

1 Coax to a Dual Tuner Reciever: this does NOT jive with what I've learned so far, in fact a few install docs I've seen for dish network show 2 coax running to their dual tuners. Is this the result of the DishPro Technology?

Its actually DishProPlus technology and Dish has been using it for a couple years now.
Each tuner can watch a different channel...period...so dual tuner is two tuners

Lease vs Buy receivers: The Recievers I get free with the installation, they are actually leased?

yes. When you cancel Dish wants them back

I'll have to pay monthly fees for those recievers.

you pay a monthly fee for each receiver past the 1st. The 1st is included in the package

Do I have the option to buy my recievers and NOT pay monthly fees for them? A quick google search shows Dish Recievers on sale all over for very reasonable prices, granted some or used or refurbished. Can I buy a reciever, hook it up and activate it with my service? As long as its a Duo Vip 222k, I can buy it and avoid lease fees?

you pay an extra receiver fee for each receiver past the 1st regardless if you lease or buy it. Folks sometimes buy receivers because they can sell it when they cancel and there is no extension of contract when you buy the receiver

 

[sca]

what iceberg said

6 tuners = six tvs on whatever channel. polarization does not matter. single coax to each tv.
and no the installer isnt going to care what you hook the receiver up to after he leaves, just as long as you dont do something which will require him to return and fix it (which will cost him/her money-chargeback)

 

[Mongo53]

Actually they'd put you on Eastern Arc which is satellites at 61.5/72/77 longitude so using DC as the location the elevation is about 44 which is higher and would work

Any disadvantage to be on those satellites vice the 110/119? Less reliable signal? The same number of channels, same number of HD channels? More problems with weather? Local Channels (DC local channels).

Keep in mind, the Top 200 w/HD package is the most I think I'll ever want.

The free HD for life, especially with me so steamed at COMCAST and their Monopoly exploiting/building policies right now, is looking mighty attractive.

 

[Laddyboy]

Any disadvantage to be on those satellites vice the 110/119? Less reliable signal? The same number of channels, same number of HD channels? More problems with weather? Local Channels (DC local channels).

Keep in mind, the Top 200 w/HD package is the most I think I'll ever want.

The free HD for life, especially with me so steamed at COMCAST and their Monopoly exploiting/building policies right now, is looking mighty attractive.

There is no difference in national programming between the two satellite arcs. There are differences in locals and some regional sports nets, etc. If you are in the Washington DC market, you likely would get an eastern arc 1000.4 (61.5/72.7/77) install since DC is an eastern arc market. There are new satellites up in both arcs with another new one coming to 61.5 very shortly and another to follow to that same location in another year or so.

 

[SparksPA]

As a relatively Newb as well, I have had many of the very same questions as Mongo53 has. We also share the same reasons for switching to Satellite TV, the burning desire to fire Comcast. (The reasons for that would fill another thread - and there are no surprises as to why.) I may be just a little ahead of Mongo53 but the questions posed in this thread and the concise answers have been very helpful to me as well. I suggest that any Newb (present company included) may benefit from access to this thread. Perhaps a sticky is in order? I know that it will be helpful to others that are starting down the same path.

Well done Guys! Your expertise, time, patience is sincerely appreciated! :up