Note from RCA on Dish Network TV's

Scott Greczkowski

Scott Greczkowski

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I got the following sent to me about the Dish Network HDTV's which are made by RCA/Thompson

It is from a Thompson service bulletin

The next generation of Echostar branded product will be based on the ATC-222 chassis with an additional Echo DVI security module installed in the television. This module is the primary gateway for video signals and controls from the Echostar settop box. Consumer will only be able to view HD Content on these TVs, if they are an authorized EchoStar HD subscriber and the set is connected to an EchoStar HD receiver settop box. Standard definition (SD) content will be able to be viewed from any source.

A bunch of you have PMed me to ask if this rumor was true, it appears so.
 
Cyclone

Cyclone

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Makes sense is Charlie is subsidizing the TVs to encourage E* enrollment.
 
M

marko

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That is horrible. I mean, how long can a tv last? Many years, and at some point it is reasonable that you might want to move away from dish (heck, might move to a house whever you just can't get satellite view). What do you do then? No HD on an HD TV?
 
AndyMon

AndyMon

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Cyclone said:
Makes sense is Charlie is subsidizing the TVs to encourage E* enrollment.
Yeah, makes sense for Charlie. Makes absolutely no sense for the public. First off, we're only talking about an RCA tv here. I don't believe the subsidy is that great. Further, what about people who have two or, with Voom's imminent arrival, three HD providers or even four with cable? How many TV's would they have to have in the same room if all providers went this route? It's bad enough that you have to be pointed at an E* satellite to receive OTA.
I pity the poor ignorant folks that buy into this "deal" (the public, en masse) only to find out, later, that they're "trapped". This kind of marketing can only engender animosity toward E*. Bad move, I fear, and poorly thought out. It seems that someone at E* is doing more and more of this kind of thinking.
 
Stargazer

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To top it off, RCA has one of the worse reliability ratings of the tv's out there.
 
Cyclone

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There are always other non-subsidized HDTVs that they can buy. I don't see how anyone is getting screwed by deciding to let Charlie chip in for some of the TV and other hardware costs.
 
M

marko

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Cyclone said:
There are always other non-subsidized HDTVs that they can buy. I don't see how anyone is getting screwed by deciding to let Charlie chip in for some of the TV and other hardware costs.

This is true, but, how many people will end up buying this package without knowing all the details. The target audience of this machine is an audience who wants a simple solution and, unfortunately, might not have the foresight to predict what might happen when the go away from dish. I can only hope they spell this out to potential customers, and better yet, make them sign something agreeing to this before purchasing.

The real way they should handle this is the way they handle any other subsidized program. Require them to commit for a certain amount of time, and penalize them if they break early. A 3 year commitment to AT50 + hd package, with a sliding scale on dropping commitment would work for example.
 
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Randy_B

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If they don't spell this out CLEARLY for the consumer, sniff, sniff I smell a huge class action loss for E* at some point down the line.
 
Cyclone

Cyclone

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If they don't Spell it out Clearly! Hell, the damn TV has a big damn DishNetwork Logo right on the front of it.
 
M

marko

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Cyclone said:
If they don't Spell it out Clearly! Hell, the damn TV has a big damn DishNetwork Logo right on the front of it.

That does help, but still doesn't make it right. I honestly think this is one of the worse ideas I've ever heard. How long can you use a TV? A long time. So many things can happen in that time. Imagine 8 years from now if dish network comes out with a new dish, and the 811 is not supported with that new dish. Your telling me a new receiver that works with the new dish is going to have to seamlessly work with this old RCA tv? Or is dish going to have to tell the customer, sorry, tough luck, your tv officially can only do SD now, no xbox games, no progressive scan dvd (or HD dvd) will work with it anymore.

This is just one of many scenarios. Dish has to have built a way to get around this limitation, otherwise there will be problems in the future.
 
AndyMon

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Cyclone said:
There are always other non-subsidized HDTVs that they can buy. I don't see how anyone is getting screwed by deciding to let Charlie chip in for some of the TV and other hardware costs.
Now you sound like you work for E* <G>
No one is kvetching about the other hardware, only the TV. Obviously, John Q. Public isn't going to be savvy enuff to know what he's getting himself into (after all. he's going to be buying an RCA TV). He's going to think that it's an affordable all-in-one solution backed by two reputable (?) names as well as the B&M he's buying it from. In some respects it is but he will be very much hamstrung. Remember, these are the same consumers who think that Digital is HD. When they realize they've be taken in (trapped) they won't be happy.
Long term, this will cause E* a great deal of grief and bad word of mouth publicity. Would you advise your aunt to go for this deal? (I know, you'd tell her to go for another TV but you know what I mean)
Also, you can't seriously think that having an array of TV's in your room is a viable solution to having more than one HD provider. This is just plain bad business and bad news.
 
J

John Smith

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Sep 8, 2003
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Its a question of customer choice, providing the customer is advised when purchasing of the requirement for and E* subscription its up to him if he wants the subsidized E* TV or, if not, he is free to buy whatever TV he likes at the going street price.

To me its nothing to get excited about as the customer is absolutely free to make his own decision.
 
Cyclone

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That does help, but still doesn't make it right.

What? They can't have a promotion where they discount a TV to make HDTV more attainable. That isn't right? What would not be right is to get the TV and then NOT subscribe to DishNetwork.

MVC-014S.JPG


Public isn't going to be savvy enuff to know what he's getting himself into (after all. he's going to be buying an RCA TV).

Again, more of an assumption that everyone is a moron. How savvy do you have to be when the TV, the SuperDish, and the 811 are all in the same freak'n box?

Maybe they should have an IQ test kiosk for potential customers.

You guys must be same folks that are mad that a Dish 6000 OTA module (which costs $150 retail or free to current customers) can't work as a stand alone HDTV ATSC receiver without a Dish subscription (or at least satellite connectivity). How dare Dish give me an alternative to buying a $300 - $400 OTA ATSC STB if I become one of their customers?
 
D

dbronstein

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John Smith said:
To me its nothing to get excited about as the customer is absolutely free to make his own decision.

Exactly. Let the market decide if this will work or not.

Dennis
 
AndyMon

AndyMon

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Cyclone said:
What? They can't have a promotion where they discount a TV to make HDTV more attainable. That isn't right? What would not be right is to get the TV and then NOT subscribe to DishNetwork.

Who's going to buy the package for $1400 and throw all but the TV (an RCA) away? You can buy a better TV outright for less. A subscription requirement ($$$) would take care of this, anyway.

Public isn't going to be savvy enuff to know what he's getting himself into (after all. he's going to be buying an RCA TV).

Again, more of an assumption that everyone is a moron.
Maybe they should have an IQ test kiosk for potential customers.

I've worked with the public and while moron may only describe a certain percentage I'd venture that most don't have the requisite knowledge, nor desire to attain it, that a videophile would. So yes, by and large, they aren't very sophisticated when it comes to the latest technologies. Hell, even the people who are interested and post on these forums don't know everything and they care. That's why these forums exist yet I don't see millions of people coming here and I don't think most would want to waste their time. They just want to watch TV.

You guys must be same folks that are mad that a Dish 6000 OTA module (which costs $150 retail or free to current customers) can't work as a stand alone HDTV ATSC receiver without a Dish subscription (or at least satellite connectivity).

You mean like D* does? ;)
 
AndyMon

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According to a
recent study by the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA):

-- Consumers are overwhelmingly unaware of existing HDTV content

-- 71 percent of those surveyed said they were not very

familiar or not at all familiar with HDTV programming.

-- Among potential HDTV purchasers, almost 30 percent of those

surveyed cited lack of HDTV content as an inhibitor to

purchasing an HDTV set.

-- An even larger percentage of consumers surveyed lack basic

information about how to receive the full benefits of HD

programming:

-- 74 percent of consumers were unaware that they need a

set-top box to view HD programming; and

-- 54 percent weren't aware that owning HDTV hardware would

enable them to view programs in HD only if the programs

are broadcast in HD.

The CEA will announce the full results of this survey at the
upcoming
CEA Industry Forum in Carlsbad, Calif. on October 13.

The general populace doesn't seem to be too informed, does it? Not necessarily morons, just uninformed. So, who do they look to for guidance? Why, the salesfolks at CC, BB, etc., etc.. The blind leading the blind (sigh)
 
D

dmodemd

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This move is illegal and anti-competitive. I am sure the FCC would not be happy about a TV that is sold and locked to one broadcaster. Especially as they are trying to facilitate an OPEN integrated digital tuner/cable standard. I'm sure the complaint is on its way in.
 
J

JStanton

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Sep 11, 2003
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Yeah! Free TVs for everyone! Don't let the man keep you down!

roll
 
Cyclone

Cyclone

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There is nothing illegal or anti-competitive about this TV. You guys are all on crack! There are like 50+ TVs in the store. This one is cheaper if you subscribe to Dish Network.
 
Scott Greczkowski

Scott Greczkowski

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I think the problemm here is that the HD only works if you have Dish Network service.

That means 4 or 5 years from now if you decide to leave Dish and go somewhere else, the HDTV you have is now worthless as you cant watch HD on it from another provider.

If they spell this out in the advertising then ok, but if they don't shame on them. And I am talking about more then just them saying the TV does not come with a remote you need to use the 811 remote instead.
 

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