OAR vs Non-OAR: What really is OAR?

[Dvlos]

I've never heard of this, but Killroy on the AVSFORUM was talking about movies that appear non-OAR because they are not widescreen, actually could be OAR because they were filmed in Super-35. Here is the thread, look at his screengrabs of Gladiator.

AVSFORUM LINK

I never noticed this but look at the fact the DVD version is the one that looks cropped! I would like more information on this, does anyone know which movies are Super35 transfers or even more info on what Super35 is?

 

[KyDave]

My best understanding of this uses WILLY WONKA as an example.

Just because the original source has more of a 4x3 framing, that does NOT mean it was how the director intended it to look.

Using WILLY WONKA as an example, there is a scene where a girl blows up into a big purple ball.

I mistakenly ordered the FULL FRAME version of WW dvd a few years back, and it actually was OPEN MATTE (showing MORE detail that the widescreen version.) But this clearly was not what was intended to be seen. In the OPEN MATTE version, you can see a hose coming out of the bottom of the girl which was how they blew her up. Since this was clipped off of the WIDESCREEN version, I guess the editors/director didn't really care if it was in the 4x3 frame.

So, to me, OAR is how it was INTENDED to be shown.

 

[Dvlos]

Although the hose special effect in the scene is one arguement, wouldn't you rather see more detail (without seeing boom mics everywhere) in your movie? I take for example the Gladiator screen grab that shows more of the Roman architecture in the background, giving that particualar scene a much grander scope.

 

[Sean Mota]

WOW that was quite an interested read. Thanks for the posting. I saw this thread at AVS and passed on it believing it was going to be the same bashing on Starz-HD that you are used to hearing. It was interested to learn about the superbits movies. I wonder if there is a list somewhere. I like Starz-HD because they seem to be committed to give you HD movies more than Show-HD which seem to be comitted to repeat the same HD movies for six months and then throw two movies and the repeat the same for another six months.

I love movies in OAR but if you ask me which I rather have based on content and repitition Show-HD or Starz-HD, I would pay my money to Starz-HD. Interested topic and Killroy looks like he knows what he talks about.

 

[Dvlos]

It still baffles me though when Starz plays a movie I haven't seen on HD and it's in NON HD like Scream.. what the? If I am not mistaken this movie exists in widescreen somewhere right? Same with HBO and showing Entourage and some of their documentaries in SD, that blows my mind since the only reason I got into Six Feet Under was because I was like "hey this look's pretty nice what's it about".. I have like no desire to watch Entourage.. is The Wire in HD?

Back to the topic, it seems most people really want OAR even if it means black bars on their 16x9, I was this way when all I had was a 4:3. Problem is non-OAR on some of the films I have seen DOES mean poorer PQ even though I really like my screen completely used (never minded this with SD TV I dont know why with my new 16x9 I do?) However if there are movies that have this ultra-deluxe OPEN MATTE treatment I'm all for it! It's like best of both worlds for me!

 

[jgantert]

Just a little confused about OAR and Open Matte. If I am reading this correctly, OAR is the way it was shown in the theaters, and Open Matte is the entire movie before it was edited to fit the OAR size?

So does this mean the stuff that was cut out of the Open Matte version to fit in the OAR version was never meant to be in the film? If so, wouldn't it always be better to watch the OAR version?

-John

 

[Ilya]

Just a little confused about OAR and Open Matte. If I am reading this correctly, OAR is the way it was shown in the theaters, and Open Matte is the entire movie before it was edited to fit the OAR size?

Correct.

So does this mean the stuff that was cut out of the Open Matte version to fit in the OAR version was never meant to be in the film? If so, wouldn't it always be better to watch the OAR version?

IMHO - YES! The movie is a work of art. The film director is the artist. I want to see it the way the author wanted me to see it - in OAR!

 

[Dvlos]

I don't get it, why film in open matte and then chop it down, I thought the difference between 1.88:1 and 2.35:1 was the equipment used for the shot. With 2.35:1 being more panoramic. Although I think the whole "the film director is the artist" is dependent on the film I don't think the guys who did Friday the 13th 5 is as noteworthy as say the guy who did Amistad. Especially annoying to ME is watching 2.35:1 to see 15% more empty wall, wooden floor, or sky. 2.35:1 is better utilized in movies like Saving PRivate Ryan and LOTR where there is STUFF going on and set pieces, props used to add atmosphere to the movie.

 

[Ilya]

This might be a personal preference, but I strongly believe that if a movie deserves to be watched at all, it deserves to be watched the way the director intended. If the director didn't know how to fill the frame, or if it seems I could do a better job by changing the aspect ratio, why waste time watching such a movie? It's not worth it!

 

[barth2k]

even though there are times when a non-oar version uses a open matte and you actually see more than what you see in theaters, it's much more common that non-oar are just cropped. anyway, except for a really meticulate director like Kubrick, most directors shoot with theater screen in mind, not what the movie is going to look like with an open matte transfer.

those people who hate black bars need to realize the picture doesn't necessarily fill the screen at the theater either. since movie screens need to accommodate different ARs, a 2.35:1 movie won't fill the entire screen. You just don't notice it b/c it's dark or they've masked the screen with black cloth (those are black bars! you can't fool me damnit!!)

 

[Dvlos]

hmmm it seems that opening night on a nice epic film, that the theatre i see it in is a nice large theatre, that I almost have to look a little side to side to capture it all if I sit in the middle. As opposed to seeing like a Pixar movie opening night you get one of 7 of the smaller theatres? I don't go to movies as much anymore

 

[jgantert]

those people who hate black bars need to realize the picture doesn't necessarily fill the screen at the theater either. since movie screens need to accommodate different ARs, a 2.35:1 movie won't fill the entire screen. You just don't notice it b/c it's dark or they've masked the screen with black cloth (those are black bars! you can't fool me damnit!!)

You can see that at our AMC theater. They show 1.85:1 commercials and slide shows, then when the movie begins, they lower the curtains turning the screen into 2.35:1. Its a cool trick, and I don't think many people notice it.

As for the OAR stuff, I think I'm clear on it, and sounds like OAR is the way to go.

For DVD's, tho... How can you tell if it is open matte? Its easy to tell FF, 1.85:1, 2.35:1... but I've never seen a DVD with open matte designation.

-John

 

[barth2k]

For DVD's, tho... How can you tell if it is open matte? Its easy to tell FF, 1.85:1, 2.35:1... but I've never seen a DVD with open matte designation.

-John

I've never seen an open matte designation. Understandable since how many people would knoiw what the heck that is. I think the only way (w/o insider info) is to compare an OAR version and see that you haven't lost picture on the sides and have gained some at top and bottom.

 

[KyDave]

I've never seen an open matte designation. Understandable since how many people would knoiw what the heck that is. I think the only way (w/o insider info) is to compare an OAR version and see that you haven't lost picture on the sides and have gained some at top and bottom.

What makes it even more confusing is sometimes it's a mix of both!

Men in Black comes to mind. I can remember comparing a 4x3 VHS to my widescreen DVD a few years back. Most of the 4x3 VHS was PAN AND SCAN, but I remembered a particular scene early in the movie where a monster is pounding Will Smith onto the ground from a car. Tommy Lee is talking on a phone and the scene is VERY wide. I wondered 'how are they going to pan and scan this?' and sure enough when I checked the VHS it appeared OPEN MATTE in that scene for 4x3.