OTA Program Guide issues - no data (help!)

mfrodsha

SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 12, 2004
46
0
When I view the EPG on the scanned local digital channels, all it says is "Local Programming". The EPG does not indicate any of the information about currently playing shows, or anything of that nature.

I called Dish and the tech support acted as if they had no idea what I was talking about. Then, they said that Dish can't decode that information. When I asked why, and if it was a known issue that would be fixed in a software upgrade, the techie said they didn't know, and didn't think it would be fixed, and that it's this way with all Dish receivers.

Frankly, this makes no sense to me. Since digital broadcasting is handled by public/freely available regulation and information, I can't, for the life of me, figure why Dish would go through the trouble of decoding OTA broadcasts without decoding the information that identifies the programs. It is not as if it is some secret standard that they are not privy to identifying. It's almost as if they just decided it isn't worth their time to figure out. It's very frustrating, though, especially for my wife, who relies on the EPG.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or fixes, that anyone is aware of? Thanks!!

Incidentally, my prior 921 didn't even scan OTA digital channels, so I'm very grateful that this does. It also gave blue lines in HDTV. Now it is all fixed with the replacement 921. Now, I have double the number of HDTV channels - cool. But, still, why no data about the channel?
 

Mike Greer

SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 10, 2004
103
0
mfrodsha said:
When I view the EPG on the scanned local digital channels, all it says is "Local Programming". The EPG does not indicate any of the information about currently playing shows, or anything of that nature.

I called Dish and the tech support acted as if they had no idea what I was talking about. Then, they said that Dish can't decode that information. When I asked why, and if it was a known issue that would be fixed in a software upgrade, the techie said they didn't know, and didn't think it would be fixed, and that it's this way with all Dish receivers.

Frankly, this makes no sense to me. Since digital broadcasting is handled by public/freely available regulation and information, I can't, for the life of me, figure why Dish would go through the trouble of decoding OTA broadcasts without decoding the information that identifies the programs. It is not as if it is some secret standard that they are not privy to identifying. It's almost as if they just decided it isn't worth their time to figure out. It's very frustrating, though, especially for my wife, who relies on the EPG.

Any thoughts, suggestions, or fixes, that anyone is aware of? Thanks!!

Incidentally, my prior 921 didn't even scan OTA digital channels, so I'm very grateful that this does. It also gave blue lines in HDTV. Now it is all fixed with the replacement 921. Now, I have double the number of HDTV channels - cool. But, still, why no data about the channel?

Don't count on any guide information for a while. For some insane reason Dish figures you can use the TV Guide or newspaper to see what is on TV. I was shocked to find this out at first but after all the problems with the 921 the missing OTA guide information is the least of the problems.

Maybe someone with some inside information from Dish can tell you when but I personally wouldn't expect it for some time if ever based on the promises of the past.

Some say the info is supposed to come from over-the-air but I have never heard of anyone anywhere that has any guide info.
 

mfrodsha

SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 12, 2004
46
0
Mike Greer said:
Don't count on any guide information for a while. For some insane reason Dish figures you can use the TV Guide or newspaper to see what is on TV. I was shocked to find this out at first but after all the problems with the 921 the missing OTA guide information is the least of the problems.

Maybe someone with some inside information from Dish can tell you when but I personally wouldn't expect it for some time if ever based on the promises of the past.

Some say the info is supposed to come from over-the-air but I have never heard of anyone anywhere that has any guide info.

I figured as much. Actually, the information is contained in the over the air broadcast. Normal OTA HD tuners pick this information up, but apparently not Dish. I'm pretty shocked that they don't pick up this information. But, you're right, I'm just glad that everything ELSE works well, especially after getting the replacement 921 receiver.
 

mfrodsha

SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 12, 2004
46
0
Mike Greer said:
Don't count on any guide information for a while. For some insane reason Dish figures you can use the TV Guide or newspaper to see what is on TV. I was shocked to find this out at first but after all the problems with the 921 the missing OTA guide information is the least of the problems.

Maybe someone with some inside information from Dish can tell you when but I personally wouldn't expect it for some time if ever based on the promises of the past.

Some say the info is supposed to come from over-the-air but I have never heard of anyone anywhere that has any guide info.

I just spoke with someone at Dish, and they said that they think in somecases this is fixed with a system reset. Of course, I've reset my system ad nauseum to no avail. The scanned channels will not have program guide information. He did say, however, that this is a known issue, and that he anticipates a software upgrade to fix this so that the 921 reads the OTA PG information as it is received. He also offered to refund my local channel fee for this month, and indicated he thought this fix would occur in the next few weeks. Good man. :)
 

Shichonni

SatelliteGuys Family
Oct 24, 2003
49
0
Mike Greer said:
Some say the info is supposed to come from over-the-air but I have never heard of anyone anywhere that has any guide info.


Well, interesting note on the program information. The HD signal here in Denver does it. But only the local NBC is broadcasting info on what the station is playing. When I punch in guide using my mitubishi's integrated tuner. I see the program info, but my 6000 does not show it. Now I wonder why the 6000, 921, 811, etc can't do the same thing, if the local network is willing to broadcast that info.

--shich
 

mfrodsha

SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 12, 2004
46
0
Shichonni said:
Well, interesting note on the program information. The HD signal here in Denver does it. But only the local NBC is broadcasting info on what the station is playing. When I punch in guide using my mitubishi's integrated tuner. I see the program info, but my 6000 does not show it. Now I wonder why the 6000, 921, 811, etc can't do the same thing, if the local network is willing to broadcast that info.

--shich

Exactly my point. In fact, the new Samsung OTA HD tuner, when plugged into my t.v., showed program guide information for all digital AND HD channels that were broadcast OTA in Salt Lake.

Again, if Dish will go through the trouble of decoding the data within the broadcast containing the images, why not decode it all, and all the program guide information that is broadcast to the EPG?

Incidentally, I just got an email from a "tech" at Dish saying that they never intend to add data to the EPG for local scanned, digital channels. This is just an absolute mystery to me. Not only for the message, but for the contradiction between tech people on this singular issue.
 

mfrodsha

SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 12, 2004
46
0
Shichonni said:
Well, interesting note on the program information. The HD signal here in Denver does it. But only the local NBC is broadcasting info on what the station is playing. When I punch in guide using my mitubishi's integrated tuner. I see the program info, but my 6000 does not show it. Now I wonder why the 6000, 921, 811, etc can't do the same thing, if the local network is willing to broadcast that info.

--shich

In fact, I got this message from Tech support:

"Thank you for your e-mail. We do not support OTA EPG data for the digital channels nor do we intend to. I'm not sure how much you know about OTA digital transmission so I will try to explain as much as I can. The OTA EPG data for digital stations are provided by the broadcasters via PSIP (Program and System Information Protocol). PSIP tables are incorporated in the broadcaster transport stream (please note that not all broadcaster provide this data). PSIP also provides virtual channel mapping, for example here in Denver NBC's digital channel is 16, but NBC provides data in their stream to map the digital channel to 04-01 (virtual channel mapping).

Before software version 7.77P we did not support PSIP at all, but now we partially support PSIP (virtual channel mapping portion, NOT EPG portion). So before 7.77P the model 6000 would have mapped Denver's NBC to 16-01, but still does not provide EPG data. We had to partially support PSIP in order to fix the "Multiple Majors" issue. So to clarify we do not supply the OTA EPG data for Digital channels (this is provided by the broadcaster via PSIP in their transport stream), since we do not fully support PSIP the model 6000 does not display the EPG data. We do provide EPG data for the analog ABC, NBC, CBS channels but ONLY during primetime hours, we retrieve the data form the East/West Nets. We do not intend on ever supporting EPG data for the digital OTA stations.



Sincerely,

Daniel B.
"

Frankly, this doesn't answer my question as to why they won't include the OTA broadcast information in the EPG, and even confirms that OTA stations DO, in fact, broadcast program information OTA with the signal stream. The question remains, why not decode that information for the program guide?

They seem to be saying that they don't want to get all that information and add it themselves to the EPG prior to sending that information to us in the EPG. However, it seems to me to be an easy thing to make a dynamic EPG table that is stored in the 921, that can be supplemented with decoded OTA signals.
 

Mike Greer

SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 10, 2004
103
0
The answer is obvious… Dish has mental problems. If you want OTA functionality DirecTV would be the way to go. From the response from the ‘so called’ technical people it would appear that Dish doesn’t think their subscribers are going to use OTA programming. Why did they install the OTA tuner anyway? I think there are many people like me… Most of the HD that I would watch is Over-The-Air. The 921 is almost useless with these channels. If they don’t plan on supplying the guide info then they should drop the OTA tuner and the price of the 921. PSIP is not going to work for years to come. The broadcasters are almost as stupid as Dish Network!

My plan is to get a 921 (if they ever sell them again) just until I can get a 6208/6408 from Comcast or the HD DirecTivo. I’ll then sell the 921 (if I can ever get one to begin with).

Dish Network seems to think they are the only people that can do HD PVR – which they can’t even get to work!

Hello? Is anyone at the wheel Mr. Ergan?
 

mfrodsha

SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 12, 2004
46
0
Mike Greer said:
The answer is obvious… Dish has mental problems. If you want OTA functionality DirecTV would be the way to go. From the response from the ‘so called’ technical people it would appear that Dish doesn’t think their subscribers are going to use OTA programming. Why did they install the OTA tuner anyway? I think there are many people like me… Most of the HD that I would watch is Over-The-Air. The 921 is almost useless with these channels. If they don’t plan on supplying the guide info then they should drop the OTA tuner and the price of the 921. PSIP is not going to work for years to come. The broadcasters are almost as stupid as Dish Network!

My plan is to get a 921 (if they ever sell them again) just until I can get a 6208/6408 from Comcast or the HD DirecTivo. I’ll then sell the 921 (if I can ever get one to begin with).

Dish Network seems to think they are the only people that can do HD PVR – which they can’t even get to work!

Hello? Is anyone at the wheel Mr. Ergan?

Well, I think that might be overstating it a little. They CAN, actually, get it all to work - - just not without glitches. Unfortunately, I think this is a pretty lame glitch, but not the sort of glitch that makes me wish I hadn't purchased it. I mean, I don't know of anything else out there that will let me pause OTA HD programming, and also pipe in satellite channels. I hope that the latter tech support guy was the right one, and that this will be taken care of in the next software update.
 

rocatman

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 28, 2003
1,050
7
In the 921 Wishlist thread, I believe there was talk of mapping the LIL program guide info to the OTA HD channels. Of course this doesn't help you if Dish doesn't offer locals in your area. If this possible, Dish should offer this for all HD receiver owners if possible since DISH has advertised the HD OTA tuners with these receivers. Has anyone heard anything about the LIL mapping feature?
 

ScottChez

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 2, 2003
1,650
142
THe HD TIVO demo at CES did digital OTA with channel info just fine. Whats the hodl up dish.

Just when your about to order a 921 you find something else that does not work the way it should, how depressing.
 

Mike Greer

SatelliteGuys Family
Jan 10, 2004
103
0
mfrodsha said:
Well, I think that might be overstating it a little. They CAN, actually, get it all to work - - just not without glitches. Unfortunately, I think this is a pretty lame glitch, but not the sort of glitch that makes me wish I hadn't purchased it. I mean, I don't know of anything else out there that will let me pause OTA HD programming, and also pipe in satellite channels. I hope that the latter tech support guy was the right one, and that this will be taken care of in the next software update.

Sorry - mfrodsha - I was talking about PSIP... It will be a long long time before all the broadcasters get it together. By the time broadcasters in my area (Salt Lake City) all get it working the 921 will be another piece of old technology in the bottom of my closet.

Dish could do local guide info just as DirecTv does and will do with the HD DirecTivo. Dish needs to do the same but I wouldn't hold my breath.

-Mike
 

KyDave

Supporting Founder
Supporting Founder
Dec 3, 2003
675
7
Kentucky
ScottChez said:
THe HD TIVO demo at CES did digital OTA with channel info just fine. Whats the hodl up dish.

Just when your about to order a 921 you find something else that does not work the way it should, how depressing.

It is even more annoying to me that upstart VOOM can handle local digital (OTA) guide information. I mean, how long has the 6000 been out now? 3 years? It's not like the information is not available. Where does TITAN TV get it, anyway?
 

mfrodsha

SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 12, 2004
46
0
Mike Greer said:
Sorry - mfrodsha - I was talking about PSIP... It will be a long long time before all the broadcasters get it together. By the time broadcasters in my area (Salt Lake City) all get it working the 921 will be another piece of old technology in the bottom of my closet.

Dish could do local guide info just as DirecTv does and will do with the HD DirecTivo. Dish needs to do the same but I wouldn't hold my breath.

-Mike


No problem. BTW - I am also in Salt Lake. Today, with this snow storm, I didn't have any reception this morning on the 921, even though it got reception from both satellites in check switch, and even though I went out yet again and brushed off the dish. Who knows?

If they ever map the local channels, then they will have convinced me they have a complete machine. Until then . . . .
 

mfrodsha

SatelliteGuys Family
Feb 12, 2004
46
0
rocatman said:
In the 921 Wishlist thread, I believe there was talk of mapping the LIL program guide info to the OTA HD channels. Of course this doesn't help you if Dish doesn't offer locals in your area. If this possible, Dish should offer this for all HD receiver owners if possible since DISH has advertised the HD OTA tuners with these receivers. Has anyone heard anything about the LIL mapping feature?


Dish DOES offer local channels in my area. In fact, the local channels over satellite have all the program guide information. It's the OTA ones that are just blank as "local programming". Hence, it seems it oughtta be easy to map this sort of thing - but Dish has not been forthcoming with information.
 

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