Phoenix Meredith stations dispute?

sam_gordon

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May 21, 2009
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I'm gonna start calling sam_gordon the Spin Doctor. :biggrin
Just because I'm the only one telling the truth, I get blamed. :D

I keed, I keed.

EVERYONE spins... the locals, the MVPDs, and those in support (or opposition) of both of those.

Did you know that LEGALLY, broadcasters have to get (ok, are supposed to get) permission from media owners before showing their product on air? Youtube is a prime example, but if a station wanted to showcase satelliteguys on a story, they would need Scott's permission. If Scott wanted to say "sure, if you pay me $1M.", then they aren't allowed to use it (unless they pay him). But this site (and youtube) are available for free to anyone with a connection to the internet.

And please no one claim broadcasters get the use of the airwaves for free, because that's a flat out lie.
 

ChadT41

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Just because I'm the only one telling the truth, I get blamed. :D

I keed, I keed.

EVERYONE spins... the locals, the MVPDs, and those in support (or opposition) of both of those.

Did you know that LEGALLY, broadcasters have to get (ok, are supposed to get) permission from media owners before showing their product on air? Youtube is a prime example, but if a station wanted to showcase satelliteguys on a story, they would need Scott's permission. If Scott wanted to say "sure, if you pay me $1M.", then they aren't allowed to use it (unless they pay him). But this site (and youtube) are available for free to anyone with a connection to the internet.

And please no one claim broadcasters get the use of the airwaves for free, because that's a flat out lie.
Pretty close to free. Cost is minimal, from my understanding.
 

Scott Greczkowski

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And satellite helps the broadcasters reach more of their audience. Which in turn equals higher ad revenue.

Satellite Providers should be paid for helping the channels reach a bigger audience.

They shouldn’t have to pay to help them reach their audience. Satellite is doing them a huge favor.


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NYDutch

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Here's an article in The Philadelphia Inquirer from 2016 that pretty much spells out what has been happening to locals retrans fees and why. A key statement in the article that puts the fee increases in perspective is this:

"IN 10 YEARS RETRANSMISSION FEES CHARGED BY “LOCAL” TV STATIONS HAVE GONE UP NATIONWIDE FROM $215 MILLION PER YEAR IN 2006 TO $7.7 BILLION IN 2016. CONSUMERS PAY THE BILL."

Why is your pay-TV bill rising? 'Free' TV now socks consumers with billions in fees
 

sam_gordon

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May 21, 2009
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Lexington, ky
And satellite helps the broadcasters reach more of their audience. Which in turn equals higher ad revenue.

Satellite Providers should be paid for helping the channels reach a bigger audience.

They shouldn’t have to pay to help them reach their audience. Satellite is doing them a huge favor.


Sent from my iPhone using the SatelliteGuys app!
And locals helped satellite gain subscribers. Which in turn equals higher revenue. When did Dish/Direct really take off? The advent of LiL.

Locals are doing them a huge favor. :D

See, you can spin either way.

I think it would be interesting to see if the "helps them get a bigger audience" claim is true. Any one have Nielsen ratings for pre satellite time?

ETA: If no one wanted to watch the locals, then MVPDs wouldn't need to carry them. Isn't this exactly "supply and demand"?

BTW, I don't pay for locals. :D
 
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ChadT41

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$15,000 for multiple years, while being in multi millions per year... vs the high costs charged... naw.

As far as preLiL, didn’t the true take off occur right around the time of the Digital conversion?
 

sam_gordon

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May 21, 2009
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$15,000 for multiple years, while being in multi millions per year... vs the high costs charged... naw.
Compared to the $12-15/year a customer pays (for one station).
As far as preLiL, didn’t the true take off occur right around the time of the Digital conversion?
Not from what I can remember. And if you think about it, that doesn't really make sense. If there was no LiL, the digital conversion wouldn't have impacted subscribers.

And even more spin... the argument of "satellite helps them get more people watching", while true, ignores the fact that without MVPDs, ESPN, Disney, Discover, etc, would have ZERO viewers (ok, streaming is starting to make that statement not true). But MVPDs don't balk at paying ESPN $10+/month for their channels. And more people watch the "Big 4".

That being said, I do think retrans (while I feel it should be allowed) can get too high. I feel subscribers should be allowed to drop sat delivered locals for a reduced rate (what Dish is doing now). Then yes, simply pass on the costs the broadcasters are charging (which opens up another can of worms because no markets would be the same cost).
 

ChadT41

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Compared to the $12-15/year a customer pays (for one station).
Not from what I can remember. And if you think about it, that doesn't really make sense. If there was no LiL, the digital conversion wouldn't have impacted subscribers.

And even more spin... the argument of "satellite helps them get more people watching", while true, ignores the fact that without MVPDs, ESPN, Disney, Discover, etc, would have ZERO viewers (ok, streaming is starting to make that statement not true). But MVPDs don't balk at paying ESPN $10+/month for their channels. And more people watch the "Big 4".

That being said, I do think retrans (while I feel it should be allowed) can get too high. I feel subscribers should be allowed to drop sat delivered locals for a reduced rate (what Dish is doing now). Then yes, simply pass on the costs the broadcasters are charging (which opens up another can of worms because no markets would be the same cost).
Those channels are not given monopolistic protections from the government and requirements to carry or to negotiate for carriage.
 

sam_gordon

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Those channels are not given monopolistic protections from the government and requirements to carry or to negotiate for carriage.
But they DO negotiate, correct? MVPDs aren't forced to carry OTA channels unless a station elects "Must Carry", but if that happens, there's no retrans money. So I don't understand that part of your comment.

As far as the government protections, eh, they're in place, if you'd like to try to get rid of them, go ahead. While I think it would be cool to watch out of market stations (even if it's in addition to what you currently have, I'd still like to hear a solution to the syndicated show exclusivity issue that I've brought up a number of times.
 

KaptainRandom

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Jun 6, 2013
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mesa az
Added my 2 cents to facebook azfamily (aka meredith).
Ota adater handles the 2 phx channels.

Hopefully,
A 4 tuner ota Hopper adapter will arrive before more than 2 stations drop at same time.
I like having single-server,
All in 1 spot,
Not switching between devices.
Would get separate ota 4 tuner/dvr if necessary, but prefer to be on hopper.

Time will tell...

Defacto, Al A Carte via streaming is coming fast.

Sent from my SM-G930P using the SatelliteGuys app!
 

ChadT41

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But they DO negotiate, correct? MVPDs aren't forced to carry OTA channels unless a station elects "Must Carry", but if that happens, there's no retrans money. So I don't understand that part of your comment.

As far as the government protections, eh, they're in place, if you'd like to try to get rid of them, go ahead. While I think it would be cool to watch out of market stations (even if it's in addition to what you currently have, I'd still like to hear a solution to the syndicated show exclusivity issue that I've brought up a number of times.
Take one take all.
 

sam_gordon

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Take one take all.
So if that's the case, why is there any negotiating? Wouldn't the locals be able to say 'You have to pay us $50/sub/month."?

I tried to find an official explainer of what "take one take all" requires, but am having trouble finding it.

ETA: The only thing I can find seems like it references cable networks more so than local broadcasters. Basically whether an network (let's say ESPN) can force an MVPD to take extra channels in order to get the primary. So if an MVPD wants ESPN, can Disney force them to take ESPN2, ESPNU, The Ocho, etc.
 

Cheddar_Head

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Feb 13, 2008
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So if that's the case, why is there any negotiating? Wouldn't the locals be able to say 'You have to pay us $50/sub/month."?

I tried to find an official explainer of what "take one take all" requires, but am having trouble finding it.

ETA: The only thing I can find seems like it references cable networks more so than local broadcasters. Basically whether an network (let's say ESPN) can force an MVPD to take extra channels in order to get the primary. So if an MVPD wants ESPN, can Disney force them to take ESPN2, ESPNU, The Ocho, etc.
Yes, Disney can require bundling or tier levels in the contract. The problem local broadcasters have with bundling is legally,with minor exceptions, Dish can only show a station within the boundaries of it's DMA. Companies that own many stations tend to negotiate a single contract covering multiple stations. Dish will be bound by the terms of those contracts.
 

ChadT41

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My understanding is that they do not have to offer the channel, only have to make continuous good faith efforts to gain it if they have LiL stations. No requirement to carry, just the requirement to try to carry. ATT just filed a suit on the Sinclair operated channels for that.
 

sam_gordon

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Yes, Disney can require bundling or tier levels in the contract. The problem local broadcasters have with bundling is legally,with minor exceptions, Dish can only show a station within the boundaries of it's DMA. Companies that own many stations tend to negotiate a single contract covering multiple stations. Dish will be bound by the terms of those contracts.
OK. Sorry, not understanding the point you're trying to make. For the record, I do think companies can own too many stations.

My understanding is that they do not have to offer the channel, only have to make continuous good faith efforts to gain it if they have LiL stations. No requirement to carry, just the requirement to try to carry. ATT just filed a suit on the Sinclair operated channels for that.
OK. So that proves my point, doesn't it? That if a local broadcaster is being "unreasonable" (which definition will change based on who you talk to), MVPD can refuse to carry them. Therefore MVPDs must figure the locals are worth the cost. If they weren't they wouldn't pay.
 

Scott Greczkowski

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OK. So that proves my point, doesn't it? That if a local broadcaster is being "unreasonable" (which definition will change based on who you talk to), MVPD can refuse to carry them. Therefore MVPDs must figure the locals are worth the cost. If they weren't they wouldn't pay.
Which is why DISH dropped these channels, and why DIRECTV dropped channels last week and is dropping CBS owned channels this week.
 

ChadT41

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And they don’t, and we have disputes, and customers then blame one party. Personally, I would like to have congress add to the law, if they do wish to keep it, that a channel owner for a local station must present what their requested cost is to the market, since they maintain so many protections.

Look at ATT, where with the elections going up, affected dMAs have senators writing in... that skews everything far too greatly.
 

sam_gordon

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And they don’t, and we have disputes, and customers then blame one party. Personally, I would like to have congress add to the law, if they do wish to keep it, that a channel owner for a local station must present what their requested cost is to the market, since they maintain so many protections.

Look at ATT, where with the elections going up, affected dMAs have senators writing in... that skews everything far too greatly.
And both parties are to blame. Totally agree. As far as publishing the requested cost, while I agree in theory, I wonder what else should be divulged... what about the cost a gas station pays for gas? A grocery store for milk? A manufacturer for widgets?
 

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