Planning my setup in IL

[Pondracer]

I am currently a cable customer for both broadcast and broadband who just switched to DSL. The previous owner of our home had DISH installed and the dish is still on the roof and mounted to the chimney.

Last winter I completed running Cat5e to all of our rooms and dismantled the wireless network. The RG6 was re-ran for both satellite and cable tv, and the satellite portion was verifed as working with a loaner receiver (picture was awesome). Subsequently I added in a server rack in the basement that holds two servers, one for development and the other works as our PVR. The PVR distributes programming across the LAN with Hauppage MVP devices at the playback locations (either recorded or live). Works very well and I have about 200 gig of storage on that machine which is easily expandable.

I'm looking to get a new HDTV over the next few months. Presently there's an old Sony 27 in our main viewing room that I've had for 6 years and I'm waiting a bit longer for the 1080p units to come down in price before I jump.

I would like to maximize the number of HD channels I can receive along with the Great Wall package. One of the primary reasons we are considering Dish over others is the Chinese channels that are available.

I realize there's the MPEG-4 change looming, so I don't want to get caught in a bind with outdated equipment. I'm wondering if the dish itself will remain unchanged after the switch.

What I'd like is a receiver in two rooms, one in our primary living area and the other at the server rack. I realize the PVR won't record HD, and I'm fine with that. There's a potential problem with the dish, it points through the east side of a huge maple tree and I am wondering if I'll end up moving that dish. If I could move it 50 yards away and avoid signal loss I might end up placing it out by my garden.

Couple of questions. Would it make sense to get the latest and greatest dish and two cheapy receivers (either retail or off of eBay)? That way when the MPEG-4 change occurs I could just get new gear.

Or do I just get a package direct from DISH and hope for the best as far as equipment upgrade?

How far can I realistically move the dish away from the receiver and still get a decent picture?

How much does having a tree in the middle of the line-of-sight on the dish play into signal loss? Its not pointing through the trunk, but that tree is growing and I'm not looking forward to moving all of this next year after I get it hooked up.

Last - is it smarter to hire an installer first and walk them through my setup before buying my gear? Its just that in dealing with the doofus at BestBuy/CircuitCity/Sears it didn't take long to realize they were clueless.

Thanks!

 

[OoTLink]

Wow, I had this huge honking post ready to submit when I realized that I wasn't paying attention to the fact you were on the east coast, so I had a huge post about all this stuff -- though you'll get to see that below - feel free to disregard it though.

You'll need a superdish to get 121, which is the satellite that does chinese international channels, and that superdish does 110/119 as well, so all you need in addition is a dish pointed at 61.5 -- and the dish on the roof should be able to do this IF it has a dish pro LNBf on it (you'll be able to tell if it's got a black label on it, no need to climb up on the roof and check). A dp44 will also be needed to 'merge' all the inputs into 1 which will go to your receiver, and if you want to get HDTV (but don't want DVR), you'll need a dish network 811.

The 942 receiver is a PVR if you want one like that, though.
___________

There are HD DVRs if you really want one, the 942 for example -- but if you don't need it, that's good too. (they aren't mpeg4 upgradable).. as for dishes, don't get yourself worried about those -- they're pretty cheap.

What you might be looking into is an 811 receiver (just a basic HD receiver), and depending on your area, a good OTA antenna to pick up local HD channels. Now you're going to want voom channels too, and right now those are at the 61.5 satellite location so you'd probably have to aim one dish there, while having another dish for 110/119 (the main stuff).

If anything, you should be able to tell where the dish is aimed (generally), just by looking at it. If it has a blocky looking LNB (the "thing on the arm" -- it's actually called LNBF - Low Noise Block + Feedhorn).. like this:

http://www.sadoun.com/Sat/Products/Dishnetwork/specials/dish500.gif

Then it's aimed at 110/119. If there's a little black label on there then it's got a dish pro LNB (something you'll need to know if you add other dishes since they have to have that kind of LNB as well).

If it looks like this, http://www.dbsinstall.com/N-images/dishes/dishnetwork_300_2800.gif -- then it's simply a single dish probably pointed at 110 or something like that.

The locations kinda go like this

110/119: main programming. The main HD channels are on here
61.5/129(?): voom/local programming. Right now, 61.5 is also used for east coast local channels
148: west coast locals. We thought it'd be used to mirror the voom stuff as well but apparently that's being done at 129 instead.
105/121: FSS/superdish needed -- for certain locals and international channels. Was originally intended for HDTV but never got used for it.

If you're on the west coast, the "Thing to have now" is 110/119, 148 for locals, and if you're really daring enough to have a 3rd dish -- 61.5 for voom (if you can get it), or 129 for whatever happens there.

If you're on the east coast, 110/119 of course, 61.5 for locals and voom will do. Again, 129 might be handy if you can get it -- tell ya the truth this is a new satellite location and nobody can be sure yet what will be put there.

In essence, for a voom setup you're going to need at least 2 dishes, that is if you want dishnet's regular HD channels and the SD channels as well. I'm not sure off the top of my head where the chinese channels are put, but OH lovely they're on 121.

Signing up for that package gets you a superdish *grin*

So 110/119, 61.5 (or 148), and 121. Depending on what gets put at 129, you can always repoint the 61.5/148 to 129 (if you're in california, you'll probably want to re-aim to 129 anyway). Right now, the most satellites you can get things from is limited to 4... well 5, but that's hard to do.

The superdish has 3 LNBfs on it, 110/119 and 121. So you'll get that, and the dish on your roof can be used to get 61.5 (east coast/voom), or 148 (west coast), or 129 (west coast voom, maybe).... One thing to be said about 148 on the west coast is it usually only gets univision lol.

 

[Pondracer]

Thanks, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to write out that post. Here's a couple of pics of the dish installation. I took these in the spring when my woodpecker was drumming the dish I am located in Bloomingdale > Chicago suburbs.

 

[korsjs]

nice house, and nice setup, i would not mind seeing some pics of that. what part of IL are you in? i used to live in Glenview in the military housing.

 

[Pondracer]

Is there any signal degradation if I stretch it out to the max of 200' dish to receiver?

 

[korsjs]

there should not be any if you use dish pro. i forgot to welcome you to the site. we are glad you are here and hope you enjoy yourself.

don't forget to share pics once you get everything set up. sound like you have a nice system.

 

[OoTLink]

That dish is good for 110/119, but I have no idea if it's dishpro or not. If it is, you have a few options:

1. Point it at 61.5
2. Keep it at 110/119, put up another dish for 61.5 (this would be your standard dish 500 setup), and then a superdish for 121 (thing is, superdishes already are setup for 110/119 as well, but you get a slightly better signal off a dedicated 500 for 110/119 apparently).

It's highly not recommended to mount the superdish on a roof though, those things are a little heavy/wind-catching, so a pole mount will do it fine If anything, you can run all these lines to a grounding block and then keep the DP44 in your wiring closet/room.

I really dig the idea of that wiring room. Now I'm jealous lol. As for my "setup", you can see it in the sig, compliments of the idiot who first installed it and then later the 2 guys who fixed it up real nice

 

[Pondracer]

Here's a shot of the Beverly Hillbilly rack. There's a 4U case for the server below that I haven't had a chance to migrate to yet.

How freaking timely is this... I come home and find out Comcast moved the SciFi channel over to digital. I'm fuming - Battlestar Galactica is the only entertainment series I watch. Its time to cut these jokers off.

The PVR is great. I'm running GB-PVR which is freeware. The files are MPEG-2 so I can share those with my brother, burn DVDs etc. The MVP player is $99 and plays FM, MP3s etc and its plugged into my Carver preamp. I'm your basic 2-channel guy, old school. The audio is driven by a 9303 TransNova running into a pair of JBLs.

That dish is mounted right to the chimney, I don't think it will blow down. Main problem is the tree growing in the way. If I go to a pole mount I'd need to run that line all the way to the fence to get it past the trees, and thats farther then 200'. It may be fine where it is, but I haven't checked reception in over a year.

 

[OoTLink]

Nice. What I was saying man was that the dish on the chimney is cool, and right now it's set for the "usual" programming. However, if you want to do that chinese channel package you'll need a superdish, and it gets info from the 121 satellite (which your current dish can't get) -- along with 110 and 119 (which your current dish is aimed at).

In addition, Voom HD channels are at 61.5 along with your local channels (news, upn, etc) -- but because that satellite on your roof/chimney is free, you'll be able to use that for the 61.5 satellites (there's 2 but they use the same LNB).

The superdish can be mounted on the roof, but it'll go *along* with that dish you've got up there to get all the programming you want. The way it works is the 4 coax lines (1 from each LNB output [119, 121, 110, 61.5] -- go to a switch called a DP44, from there 1 line goes to each tuner you have (A dual tuner receiver usually would need 2 lines). The reason superdishes aren't mounted on the roof much is they're - -like I said, kinda big/heavy (30" wide I think)... but it can be done!

 

[Pondracer]

Thanks for the all the help. I'm looking for a pole site closer in the yard, I just have to figure out these satellite locations. Equipment is going to be another issue. It looks like a HDTV tuner card is only about $150, and they burn in MPEG-4 which will save me a ton of space. I may upgrade just for that.... but I'm going to need two of DISH's HD receivers and those aren't cheap.

I've got to look around today and figure out my options. A lease seems the way to go, I don't have a problem with the one year commitment and buying a box off of eBay seems a bit shady.

Anybody on here recommend a retailer in the area or should I buy online?

 

[Pondracer]

Some additional pics of the dish mount. You can also see the tree thats encroaching on the dish's path. Last pic is a possible pole location that would put me within the 200' limit... barely. Problem is that there is another tree blocking the 61.5 direction but this view is to the sw which should work for the 119 etc.

What about leaving the dish on the chimney pointing to 61.5 and mounting the SuperDish on a pole/post at the new location? I'd much rather have it on the roof and moved east about 20 feet, but to be honest I can't climb up on the roof any more (knees are shot). And I'd want a seriously strong mount, no leaks and a decent ground wire. Sears would probably rape me for that plus after reading some of the horror stories on here about installers I'm sort of leary about anything I can't actually go up and check.

Package would be

Top 180 or Top 120
HD + Voom
Great Wall
Locals

 

[BobaBird]

Those are legacy LNBs (no dp logo), likely 2 duals. You can repoint the dish to 61.5 but will have to get a DP Single or DP Dual to use it with the DPP44 (the 2nd P is for Plus, there is no DP44).

Check with an independent dealer. You should be able to get the same offer, plus your retailer will also be your installer.

 

[nsafreak]

Thanks for the all the help. I'm looking for a pole site closer in the yard, I just have to figure out these satellite locations. Equipment is going to be another issue. It looks like a HDTV tuner card is only about $150, and they burn in MPEG-4 which will save me a ton of space. I may upgrade just for that.... but I'm going to need two of DISH's HD receivers and those aren't cheap.

I've got to look around today and figure out my options. A lease seems the way to go, I don't have a problem with the one year commitment and buying a box off of eBay seems a bit shady.

Anybody on here recommend a retailer in the area or should I buy online?

Here's the problem with trying to record through the PC in High Definition. Simply put without putting down some MAJOR cash it isn't going to happen. The HDTV tuner cards available currently at the consumer level receive OTA HD programming but they will not be able to tune/receive (even directly input) satellite HDTV. There are a few (I think) that will receive QAM HD signals (what's sent down by a few cable operators) but even those won't work with satellite. Sure you could hook one up for the purpose of recording satellite SDTV but it won't work for high definition. The only way to record in high definition from satellite is as follows:

1) Buy a HD DVR (942 or 921)
2) Buy a raw HD input card for your PC. Starting price for those is about $4,000

 

[Pondracer]

Yeah, and it looks like the MVP players won't pass the HD signal anyway.

I keep reading.....