pointing superdish

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using a meter to point the superdish, one of our guys is finding out that his channel master meter will not work for the 105 bird. he is able to find the 119 fine but the 105 does not lock on, so he has to use the reciever to lock on the 105. Shouldn't the 105 lock on automatically once you have the 119 locked?? And if not, is there a meter out there that will work for the 105 satellte??
 
Neutron

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Could be a setting on his meter. 119 and 110 are DBS, 105 is FSS I believe.
 
mike123abc

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My satellite meter did not work for 105 either. I have a cheap analog one that just goes by signal strength. The 105 satellite is really weak, and is drowned out by the ajacent strong satellites. If you lock on to 110/119 you should be able to get the 105 lock.
 
Stargazer

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I have read where some installers have not been able to get their meters to work with 105 all that well if at all. Basically if you have 110 and 119 tuned in then you should have 105 tuned in as well if you have your pole plumb, skew and elevation settings correct, and you follow the steps correctly on connecting one lnbf (119) to the Dish 1 input on the switch doing the check switch then connecting the other lnbf (105) to the Dish 1 input on the switch. After you have 105 fine tuned then you connect both up and do a switch test and you should be good to go.
 
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RJS

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Our 105 didn't show up at first either. We ran the "Check Switch" in the menu and then it worked.
 
Stargazer

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RJS, are you talking about the meter displayed from the receiver on the tv or the meter you hook up outside at the dish?
 
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prowler

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Nov 11, 2003
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hey guys I am waiting for equipment to show up in the witchita kansas area, at least to my retailers, needless to say I haven't got the great joy and thrill of setting one of the supers up yet, has anybody tried to use a digisat on the 105 yet? Just curious if they will lock on or if I should just be prepared to go with the old primestar, or charter rig I set up (a spare receiver and a portable tv)
 
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bcwmachine

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prowler said:
hey guys I am waiting for equipment to show up in the witchita kansas area, at least to my retailers, needless to say I haven't got the great joy and thrill of setting one of the supers up yet, has anybody tried to use a digisat on the 105 yet? Just curious if they will lock on or if I should just be prepared to go with the old primestar, or charter rig I set up (a spare receiver and a portable tv)

Using a Starband Dish with Eagle Aspen P270KU LNB the didgisat or I was confused by the strong signal from 110. It sort of shows as a 'level' spot when swinging the dish, but had a really hard time peaking it with the digisat even after the receiver locked onto 105. Spare Receiver and portable tv sounds like the best way. (I looked through the window, my dish is wall mounted).
 
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prowler

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Nov 11, 2003
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spare rec. and tv works great when you are in a hurry, I am rigging up an enclosed trailer to work out of, need more room for the bigger equipment, but have been debating on rigging up a small generator and cords for headache jobs, hopefully it wont take long to get into a rythum and all will fall into place without carrying bulk tylenols
 
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Bruno

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Sep 8, 2003
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Well i set up my first SD at the shop and was able to peak 119 and then hook up to the 105 with my digistat and peak it out. Got from 60- 70 on the 105 transponders. Ran switch Check and every thing was OK.
 
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prowler

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maybe they wont be so bad after all, I am hoping to get a dish to play with awhile before going hard after it
 
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RJS

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Stargazer, we had to use the meter on the TV because the installers meter broke.
As I mentioned in another post, I found some loose bolts yesterday and after tightening them my signal is now from 59 to 69.
 
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Bruno

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Well i wanted to let everyone know that i must have been lucky with using my Digistat to find 105. On Superdish installs where i had set the poles i had to only peak the 119 and when i hooked up on the 105 i was getting a reading that i peaked.

Well today i did one and the pole was not quite plumb i peaked 119 and then the 105 and ran switch check and found the 119 and 110 but NC on the 105 feed. well i had to reset the elevation for the pole being off 2 degrees and peaked 119 and the 105 was there.

I guess what im trying to say that maybe the Digisat does not work so well in finding the 105 Bird.

Now looking for a good meter that will identify the 105. Birddog or Sat Buddy
 
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thebradybunch

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Dec 20, 2003
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105 weak also

I am at 109 and above on the other 2 birds but at 53% on 105. My installer says this is normal. My concern is at such a low percentage am I going to have a problem with rain fade? Also has anyone noticed the picture is not as clear on 105. Min is slightly washed out. Is that because of the lower signal?
Thanks for the replys
 
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big ed

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Jan 9, 2004
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Installed superdish at my office and got 69-72 on 105 bird. M y channel master meter does not have the 105 bird in it's memory and it is not on the site to download yet. I have seen a meter that will work with it but I cannot remember which one it is. Will post as soon as I find it. The 105 bird is operating at a low power rate. We have been told they wil replace it by the end of the year
 
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Bruno

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Sep 8, 2003
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Installed superdish at my office and got 69-72 on 105 bird.

Well what transponder was you on...thats the real key. I can also get 70 on tranponder 23 but only 62 on #13 and 13 is the one my locals are on.

Bruno
 
red hazard

red hazard

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Ku-Band for FSS and BSS (DBS)

The downlink frequencies from a FSS bird range 12.2 - 12.7 GHz while the downlink frequencies from a DBS bird (also called BSS) is 11.7 - 12.2 GHz. DBS meters with built-in receiver should have a bandpass filter to help align to DBS frequencies only. The power limitations set by ITU for FSS is 60 watts per transponder and of course everyone familiar with this forum knows tha max power allowed on DBS is 120 watts per transponder. P* was an FSS service; hence the need for a larger dish. Ignoring a number of other variables, to send a 60W transponder signal with the same relative receive signal level at your receiver as a 120W transponder signal requires a focused dish reflection surface area about twice as large.
 
mike123abc

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red hazard said:
The downlink frequencies from a FSS bird range 12.2 - 12.7 GHz while the downlink frequencies from a DBS bird (also called BSS) is 11.7 - 12.2 GHz. DBS meters with built-in receiver should have a bandpass filter to help align to DBS frequencies only. The power limitations set by ITU for FSS is 60 watts per transponder and of course everyone familiar with this forum knows tha max power allowed on DBS is 120 watts per transponder. P* was an FSS service; hence the need for a larger dish. Ignoring a number of other variables, to send a 60W transponder signal with the same relative receive signal level at your receiver as a 120W transponder signal requires a focused dish reflection surface area about twice as large.

Actually it does not quite work this way. Most of the DBS transponders are over 200W now and the new FSS are over 100 (E9 is around 120 I believe).

The size and shape of the beam also controls the EIRP. You can look at the satellite footprint maps to see the power levels based on the beam size and shape (for example see http://www.ses-americom.com/satellites/fleet.html). Spot beams may only have a 40watt transmitter, but appear more powerful than a 200W+ national beam.
 
red hazard

red hazard

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mike123abc said:
Actually it does not quite work this way. Most of the DBS transponders are over 200W now and the new FSS are over 100 (E9 is around 120 I believe).

The size and shape of the beam also controls the EIRP. You can look at the satellite footprint maps to see the power levels based on the beam size and shape (for example see http://www.ses-americom.com/satellites/fleet.html). Spot beams may only have a 40watt transmitter, but appear more powerful than a 200W+ national beam.

The thread was discussing a satellite meter not being able to read 105 and subsequently low signal levels on 105 as compared to 110. The subject inferred CONUS coverage beams. I addressed these two issues. Granted the contour power lines in the foot print are not identifical. That is why I caveatted the statement with "Ignoring a number of other variables..." Nothing in the previous postings alluded to a spot beam scenario.

The source of information of the power levels stated in my thread may be wrong. I am now questioning the source. However, the relative comparison between FSS and DBS is correct. DBS is allowed far more power than FSS birds as evidenced by the fact DBS birds require 9 degree spacing to prevent adjacent satellite interference as comparied to 2 degree FSS spacing. The power differences was the point.

Regarding the comment, "Spot beams may only have a 40watt transmitter, but appear more powerful than a 200W+ national beam" cannot be accepted at face value. Certainly the majority of receivers outside the spot beam not receiving any measureable signal would not agree. Also spot beams are not locked to only 40 watts. The comment "The size and shape of the beam also controls the EIRP" also bares questioning. Effective Isotropic Radiated Power is merely a gain figure comparing transmitted power toward the receiver(s) to an isotropic radiator. Nothing more.

Any posting can be nit picked. I normally refrain if it does not bring value to the discussion.
 
mike123abc

mike123abc

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Actually the 9 degree spacing for DBS was to allow a smaller dish. A smaller dish does not focus on a small a segment of the sky as a larger dish would. Echostar 9 has more power than Echostar 3. Echostar 9 is FSS, Echostar 3 is DBS. You can easily get a good signal on E3 with a small dish BECAUSE of the the 9 degree spacing, there is not adjacent satellite interference. E9 requires a larger dish to focus in on the 121 slot and ignore 119 and 123.
 
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