Pole mount 1000.2 with trench questions

[softwiz]

I have dish, my dad has cable and when he comes over he gets jealous due to all the high def. So he pulled the trigger and ordered. The installer arrived and said trees were in the way (which they were from the house). He said it would be "cost prohibitative" to pole mount a dish 30 feet to the west of the house where the satellites could easily be picked up. Then the dude left.

OK maybe that's true... But... My dad wants dish.

Yes this sounds like a lot of work but I did it anyway. I took my dish down, packed up my 622 and headed to my Dads. I made a makeshift pole mount using an umbrella stand, hooked up 100 ft of RG-6 to the dish and ran it into the house to the receiver splitter and plugged the splitter into the 622. Within a minute I had 110, 119, and 129 dialed in. Luckily, the skew is the same at both home and my dad's. The EL between locations was within 1 degree.

OK we got a good location. Now I want to provide a pole mount for the installer and run my own RG-6 cables (two of them) in conduit under the ground. I'll rent a cable trencher to dig the trench or just brute force it (I have teenage boys).

I'm assuming I should run a ground wire from the dish in the conduit along with the two RG-6 cables. I assume a grounding block will be put on the house where the RG-6 connectors and grounding wire from the conduit will connect. Then a grounding wire will go from the grounding block to the electrical service ground stake which is only 4 feet from this spot.

Q1 How deep should the trench be?

Q2 Does a ground wire need to be ran in the conduit from the Dish (from what I've read it does)?

Q3 What gauge should this ground wire be?

Q4 Does it need to be bare or insulated?

Q5 I found dual RG6 cable with a ground wire. The ground wire is .17 AWG. Is that gauge of ground wire acceptable? Vextra Technologies

I want to make sure the next time the installer comes, there are no issues with my pole mount and my run of cables to the house. All he'll have to do it mount the dish on the pole and do what he was going to do the first time he was there, install a grounding block and run a couple cables in the house.

Thanks,

Kevin

 

[Andrewwski]

Run three RG6. If you ever want to add extra TV's or a switch, you'll need another. Much easier to run it the first time rather than later.

 

[cparker]

Would RG-11 be cost prohibitive in this situation? Probably not *necessary* if the runs are only 30 feet, but in terms of durability?

 

[rcdallas]

Use RG6 - its good up to 200' for DISH. Get the dual cable with the .17AWG messenger, that'll be your bond between the dish and the ground block. Normal installation is just underneath the sod, no conduit if using direct burial cable - if you want it in conduit then go all out and put it 18" under earth and work them teenage muscles treat it like any other electrical line in that case.

From the ground block to the approved ground source it shall be no less then #10.

You can run the ground wire, insulated or not (if not going with dual w/messenger) in the conduit.

 

[Andrewwski]

No reason whatsoever to use RG11. It's a short distance. RG11 is a pain to work with.

But I'd advise running three RG6. Just leave the one disconnected if you want. Always better to run more sooner rather than later.

 

[softwiz]

Use RG6 - its good up to 200' for DISH. Get the dual cable with the .17AWG messenger, that'll be your bond between the dish and the ground block. Normal installation is just underneath the sod, no conduit if using direct burial cable - if you want it in conduit then go all out and put it 18" under earth and work them teenage muscles treat it like any other electrical line in that case.

From the ground block to the approved ground source it shall be no less then #10.

You can run the ground wire, insulated or not (if not going with dual w/messenger) in the conduit.

Based on your guidance and some of my research in the past couple hours here's what sounds easiest.

Use Direct Bury Dual RG6 with .17AWG messenger in a 4" deep trench (the conduit method sounds like a lot of work, even for the teenagers). The coax ground block is only 4 feet from the approved ground source and #10 copper to be used.

Sound right?

 

[softwiz]

No reason whatsoever to use RG11. It's a short distance. RG11 is a pain to work with.

But I'd advise running three RG6. Just leave the one disconnected if you want. Always better to run more sooner rather than later.

My dad will never use more than the two RG6 coax lines.

He's getting one 722 and one dual tuner dual TV standard def DVR (not sure what the model number is). He's going to use the standard def DVR TV2 to operate a 3rd TV. The Dish tech is going to use diplexors to join the dish signal with the coax already in the walls to the two locations that meet in the attic. What worries me is it's about a 15 foot run of RG59 to the bed room where the standard def DVR is from the diplexor in the attic. I assume he knows what he's doing. The run from attic diplexor to the other TV is only about 15 feet as well.

My wife's TV uses TV2 on my 622 and we leave it in dual mode all the time which honks me off cause I lose a tuner. So I told my dad to use the TV2 on the standard def DVR so he has both tuners available on the 722. More flexibility in recording stuff concurrently. I need to run an RG6 line to her location and get a second receiver so I can get my tuner back

He'll never use more than these 3 TVs and they are all connected to a DVR. He'll also never have more than the one HD TV in the family room.

I mounted a Channel Master 4228 UHF antenna in his attic with a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp and we were able to pick up all the Indianapolis off the air digitials from 58 miles out. Even Channel 8 (which broadcasts on VHF channel 9) comes in (albeit I had to fudge the location of the antenna in the attic to get it). The 7777 makes it all happen, without it, I can't get any Indy channels from the attic.

 

[rcdallas]

Based on your guidance and some of my research in the past couple hours here's what sounds easiest.

Use Direct Bury Dual RG6 with .17AWG messenger in a 4" deep trench (the conduit method sounds like a lot of work, even for the teenagers). The coax ground block is only 4 feet from the approved ground source and #10 copper to be used.

Sound right?

Eggsaackley !!

 

[Liquidforce88]

Honestly I would call Dish back and demand that the install be done. 30' is well within the 50' of trenching that is included with a basic installation. The pole should also be included although some retailers do charge for it. This guy just blew off a job, and I would not want him back.

Ok it's only 30'. So if you want to do it to make sure the job goes in. Get that Vextra cable it's good stuff. Get a 1 5/8" steel fence post and put that in. No need to bury that cable 18" if you want to use conduit you can.

Run enough cable so that it will reach the top of the pole and have about 4' more. Also leave about 2' - 3' of cable where the ground block will go. Let the installer do the rest it's his job.

 

[ericha]

Depending on where you live, the 4" deep burial might be fine, or might be a maintenance problem--for places that have a hard freeze in the winter, you'll want to be below the frost line, so that the cable doesn't get pushed out of the ground by frost heaves.

What is ".17AWG"? This seems to be a very unusual size! AWG is usually in even whole numbers, like 10, 12, 14, 16, etc., with smaller numbers being larger sizes. By that measure
".17" would be HUGE. Is this some kind of metric that I'm not familiar with?

 

[ts7]

Depending on where you live, the 4" deep burial might be fine, or might be a maintenance problem--for places that have a hard freeze in the winter, you'll want to be below the frost line, so that the cable doesn't get pushed out of the ground by frost heaves.

What is ".17AWG"? This seems to be a very unusual size! AWG is usually in even whole numbers, like 10, 12, 14, 16, etc., with smaller numbers being larger sizes. By that measure
".17" would be HUGE. Is this some kind of metric that I'm not familiar with?

I believe this is the same cable the installer just used on my install. It appears to be just a drain wire that is slightly larger than the coaxial center conductor. I'm guessing it is actually 17AWG (which would seem to be confirmed by a Google search of vendors selling the stuff).

Though a 4" burial will work for a while, this cable doesn't appear to be rated for outdoor use. If that's the case, conduit would definitely be a more reliable way to go. Here are benefits that I see:
1) Protects the cable from shovel hits
2) Protects the cable from animals/rodents (I've had moles/gophers chew threw buried coax twice)
3) Protects the cable from UV exposure
4) Protects the cable from moisture (if properly installed)
5) Makes adding additional cable in the future much easier (especially if a pull-string is installed initially)

Conduit is very inexpensive and, if you are going to use a trencher anyway, not very hard to install. Even hand-digging, with able-bodied teenagers, is not all that difficult (though it will probably cost you a pizza!)

 

[cparker]

Depending on where you live, the 4" deep burial might be fine, or might be a maintenance problem--for places that have a hard freeze in the winter, you'll want to be below the frost line, so that the cable doesn't get pushed out of the ground by frost heaves.

Holy cow! That'd mean a 4' trench here. Nobody does that for buryin' cable that I know. Now with the understanding that you should always check on what's Code for your area....

I've done this both ways. Split the sod and pop the cable in, or about 8-10 inches down (the depth of a regular spade shovel) in conduit (plastic). If it's just traversing lawn area then just putting it under the sod is probably fine. If it goes through landscaped or garden areas (places where one could reasonably expect that at SOME point... someone may be in there with a shovel) then I'd go deeper OR Push your conduit through a piece of heavy PVC or metal pipe a couple sizes larger than the conduit itself. Kinda like added armor.

 

[softwiz]

I found some dual direct bury with ground online.

Direct Burial 5789 Dual RG6 coax cable

Not sure about the specs. It's 49 cents a foot.

I'm still gonna look for some direct bury around town.

I'll probably go deeper, maybe an 8" trench and still just directly bury it. It's only a 25-30 foot run and it's all yard, no gardens or flower beds. No moles either. My dad doesn't have moles. Me, I have a whole family living in my yard

 

[ts7]

No moles either. My dad doesn't have moles. Me, I have a whole family living in my yard

I would be happy to give him some of mine!

 

[softwiz]

I have another question about the Messenger line. I've been reading about this and it seems it's used when you are hanging the cable.

Is the messenger supposed to be a ground wire or support wire for hanging the coax?

Is this Messenger wire a big enough gauge to be a ground wire from the dish to the grounding block?

 

[softwiz]

I would be happy to give him some of mine!

They've been lucky for sure. We both live in the country and I got'em and they don't.

I just got done rolling my yard to push down the trails. I'm gonna try some granular stuff you put on with a spreader that has castor oil in it. This is just one brand, there are quite a few other brands. It probably doesn't work but I'll try anything at this point.

CHASE - Granular Mole Repellent

 

[webbydude]

I have another question about the Messenger line. I've been reading about this and it seems it's used when you are hanging the cable.

Is the messenger supposed to be a ground wire or support wire for hanging the coax?

Is this Messenger wire a big enough gauge to be a ground wire from the dish to the grounding block?

The messenger with the dual cable is NOT meant for hanging the cable. You're confusing it with the single cable w/messenger that the cable companies use.

What it is intended for is to be a static discharge ground for the dish itself. One end of the messenger is connected to a groundlug at the dish, the other end is connected at the groundblock.

 

[softwiz]

The messenger with the dual cable is NOT meant for hanging the cable. You're confusing it with the single cable w/messenger that the cable companies use.

What it is intended for is to be a static discharge ground for the dish itself. One end of the messenger is connected to a groundlug at the dish, the other end is connected at the groundblock.

OK, just wanted to make sure when the Dish installer gets there he doesn't throw a hissy fit about grounding.

Thanks

 

[dishcomm]

I have dish, my dad has cable and when he comes over he gets jealous due to all the high def. So he pulled the trigger and ordered. The installer arrived and said trees were in the way (which they were from the house). He said it would be "cost prohibitative" to pole mount a dish 30 feet to the west of the house where the satellites could easily be picked up. Then the dude left.

OK maybe that's true... But... My dad wants dish.

Yes this sounds like a lot of work but I did it anyway. I took my dish down, packed up my 622 and headed to my Dads. I made a makeshift pole mount using an umbrella stand, hooked up 100 ft of RG-6 to the dish and ran it into the house to the receiver splitter and plugged the splitter into the 622. Within a minute I had 110, 119, and 129 dialed in. Luckily, the skew is the same at both home and my dad's. The EL between locations was within 1 degree.

OK we got a good location. Now I want to provide a pole mount for the installer and run my own RG-6 cables (two of them) in conduit under the ground. I'll rent a cable trencher to dig the trench or just brute force it (I have teenage boys).

I'm assuming I should run a ground wire from the dish in the conduit along with the two RG-6 cables. I assume a grounding block will be put on the house where the RG-6 connectors and grounding wire from the conduit will connect. Then a grounding wire will go from the grounding block to the electrical service ground stake which is only 4 feet from this spot.

Q1 How deep should the trench be?

Q2 Does a ground wire need to be ran in the conduit from the Dish (from what I've read it does)?

Q3 What gauge should this ground wire be?

Q4 Does it need to be bare or insulated?

Q5 I found dual RG6 cable with a ground wire. The ground wire is .17 AWG. Is that gauge of ground wire acceptable? Vextra Technologies

I want to make sure the next time the installer comes, there are no issues with my pole mount and my run of cables to the house. All he'll have to do it mount the dish on the pole and do what he was going to do the first time he was there, install a grounding block and run a couple cables in the house.

Thanks,

Kevin

30 feet? That's all?!!! Heck we give away the first 50 feet of burial for a pole mount. Unless the soil requires exdtraordinary trenching machinery
(anything but by hand) there is no charge allowed except by a retailer. On the retail side we do charge for a pole mount. Only because of the additional labor/materials. But we do not charge for burial until it gets past 50 feet If this was a Dish network tech or a contractor for Dish ,he should have done the job. Guy probably saw a job that was going to take him more than a predetermined time and took a walk. Some guys will not do pole mounts at all. Some will not roof mount on a home that is more than one level. There's all kinds of techs who will willingly walk away form money. Not me. If there's a away to get it done, it's getting done. 30 feet..that guy should be ashamed of himself. I question his manhood and his lineage.
Ok a few inches is the correct depth..Just don't dig where the cable is. Conduit is ok but not necessary. Yes the 17 guage is fine for the dish GND..That's standard. If the cable has marked on it "tested to 2150 mhz" or words to that effect, higher it's fine.

 

[softwiz]

30 feet? That's all?!!! Heck we give away the first 50 feet of burial for a pole mount. Unless the soil requires exdtraordinary trenching machinery
(anything but by hand) there is no charge allowed except by a retailer. On the retail side we do charge for a pole mount. Only because of the additional labor/materials. But we do not charge for burial until it gets past 50 feet If this was a Dish network tech or a contractor for Dish ,he should have done the job. Guy probably saw a job that was going to take him more than a predetermined time and took a walk. Some guys will not do pole mounts at all. Some will not roof mount on a home that is more than one level. There's all kinds of techs who will willingly walk away form money. Not me. If there's a away to get it done, it's getting done. 30 feet..that guy should be ashamed of himself. I question his manhood and his lineage.
Ok a few inches is the correct depth..Just don't dig where the cable is. Conduit is ok but not necessary. Yes the 17 guage is fine for the dish GND..That's standard. If the cable has marked on it "tested to 2150 mhz" or words to that effect, higher it's fine.

I totally agree, the installer walked away when he couldn't get two of the 3 satellites from the house. Just 30 feet to the west it's clear sky. My Dad would of paid a fair price for the pole mount. But he just walked. I'm glad to do this for him. Once the pole is in and the cable is buried, I hope they send the same installer back. I really do.

Thanks for everyone's help. I have a plan and will execute it some weekend soon.

Kevin