PQ with dish-supplied component cables
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Listen cameron, no where on this thread did I claim I was an expert. If I were, surely I wouldn't be sitting here writing this trying to explain to you that certain aspects of video whether it be DVI or component or even s-video for that matter, has different #'s if you will. The quality of connections and materials used to transmit ANY type of signal, whether it be digital, analog, or whatever else does make a difference. What you are not understanding is I am trying to explain that types of connections and methods of transmission of a signal will increase or improve the signal that is being transmitted, thats it!
This is exactly why sometimes I don't even bother coming to this website. I really enjoy most of the posts on here, and normally I do not post anything b/c of instances such as this. Seems that some people have to take offense to everything people say. I simply stated my opinion and MY experiences not everyone elses!!!!!! I didn't think I had to defend or start arguments on something that is going to be different based on individual applications. My setup has had great improvement with monster cable, yours may not. So what! Someone asked about cables and I gave my opinion, simply put.
This is exactly why sometimes I don't even bother coming to this website. I really enjoy most of the posts on here, and normally I do not post anything b/c of instances such as this. Seems that some people have to take offense to everything people say. I simply stated my opinion and MY experiences not everyone elses!!!!!! I didn't think I had to defend or start arguments on something that is going to be different based on individual applications. My setup has had great improvement with monster cable, yours may not. So what! Someone asked about cables and I gave my opinion, simply put.
Actually, you stated that you were a video expert and "impendence" among other things determined the quality of your video.
You were speaking of impedence, I hope. Well, Component has an impedence of 75ohms. If it isn't 75ohms, it isn't component. You wanted to get technical, not provide an opinion.
With an analog connection such as Component, quality can matter to a point. As long as there is adequate shielding and a good quality center conductor, you're in business.
With a digital connection, as long as you meet the minimum specs and get your bits from one point to another, it's all good. It simply cannot make a difference, since there is no analog signal travelling on that wire. It's like saying a 150.00 ethernet patch cord will give you better streaming video quality than a 14.00 patch when they're both Category 5e and acheiving 100mbps.
You were speaking of impedence, I hope. Well, Component has an impedence of 75ohms. If it isn't 75ohms, it isn't component. You wanted to get technical, not provide an opinion.
With an analog connection such as Component, quality can matter to a point. As long as there is adequate shielding and a good quality center conductor, you're in business.
With a digital connection, as long as you meet the minimum specs and get your bits from one point to another, it's all good. It simply cannot make a difference, since there is no analog signal travelling on that wire. It's like saying a 150.00 ethernet patch cord will give you better streaming video quality than a 14.00 patch when they're both Category 5e and acheiving 100mbps.
Bingo! The only diff might be in terms of long runs of cable, as Simple Simon mentioned. Save your money, Monster is a scam.cameron119 said:
Oh, and because I spent a wad on my 50" Fujitsu Plasma (where DVI DOES make a difference) it doesn't mean I should foolishly waste money on expensive cabling. That was a pretty dopey statement.
Listen gentleman,
I did not want to get technical at all. An individual asked a question concerning cabling and I gave my personal experiences. I did not hold a gun to anyone's head saying you have to get monster cable. I prefer monster, it has provided me excellent quality over all other cabling, but that does not mean it will be right for someone else. I simply gave my input. I value people's input on this board and I value your input as well cameron. However, I feel like I said before my experiences do not mean monster is the best. It just works best for me. I apologize for the confusion this may cause for anyone who has read this thread. I do not want any ill feelings.
I did not want to get technical at all. An individual asked a question concerning cabling and I gave my personal experiences. I did not hold a gun to anyone's head saying you have to get monster cable. I prefer monster, it has provided me excellent quality over all other cabling, but that does not mean it will be right for someone else. I simply gave my input. I value people's input on this board and I value your input as well cameron. However, I feel like I said before my experiences do not mean monster is the best. It just works best for me. I apologize for the confusion this may cause for anyone who has read this thread. I do not want any ill feelings.
Enforcer...
None taken...
You have expressed an opinion and I'm cool with that.
I expressed mine, and still believe that Monster is for the likes of the unwashed selling types in Best-Buy wanting to turn their numbers...
However it has to be said that better quailty cables will (obviously!) get better quality results. The key things here for Analog baseband signals is Bandwidth, Impedance matching and Signal loss/reflectivity (actually this aspect is taken care of by matching impedance).
However the "Snake oil magic" in overpriced Cables for Digital connectivity is just that (with some rare exceptions - I'm thinking the exhorbitant costs for Matched pair reflectivesignal Fibre channel cables for example!). Digital, as we'd all agree is either there or not... just like our satellite signal from Dish!
So, lets all take a deep breath and look back at the original question.
"will picture quality improve if i buy better component cables vs. those supplied by dish with the 811?"
er... well... maybe!?!? Depens on too many other factors (your viewing environment, the Type of TV set your using, how bad your visual acuity is ....etc etc).
For my money I'd stick with the cables as supplied if they work... but if you really want minimized "distortions" (or better quote "quality" /unquote) go with DVI if you can.
None taken...
You have expressed an opinion and I'm cool with that.
I expressed mine, and still believe that Monster is for the likes of the unwashed selling types in Best-Buy wanting to turn their numbers...
However it has to be said that better quailty cables will (obviously!) get better quality results. The key things here for Analog baseband signals is Bandwidth, Impedance matching and Signal loss/reflectivity (actually this aspect is taken care of by matching impedance).
However the "Snake oil magic" in overpriced Cables for Digital connectivity is just that (with some rare exceptions - I'm thinking the exhorbitant costs for Matched pair reflectivesignal Fibre channel cables for example!). Digital, as we'd all agree is either there or not... just like our satellite signal from Dish!
So, lets all take a deep breath and look back at the original question.
"will picture quality improve if i buy better component cables vs. those supplied by dish with the 811?"
er... well... maybe!?!? Depens on too many other factors (your viewing environment, the Type of TV set your using, how bad your visual acuity is ....etc etc).
For my money I'd stick with the cables as supplied if they work... but if you really want minimized "distortions" (or better quote "quality" /unquote) go with DVI if you can.
Enforcer said:
I certainly wasn't trying to insult you or cause ill feelings. I appreciate your opinion as much as the next person's. What I had issue with was the DVI vs. DVI discussion. A DVI cable is a DVI cable so long as it doesn't exceed a certain length and meets minimum specs. Component is a slightly different story, as the analog transmission can suffer from inadequate cabling. Even then, a reasonably priced solution is probably the best way to go.
As far as component vs. DVI:
If you have a fixed-pixel display, go with DVI. You will be removing the analog to digital conversion from the STB to the monitor. With a CRT-based display, there will be an analog conversion anyway. In this case, the difference will rely on what device has the better analog to digital converter. Component is still breathtaking, especially on the CRT's.
cameron119 said:
Amen! Not to mention some sets have DSPs to further enhance the digital bitstream coming in over DVI, that you would loose out on with component.
However, even with all that said, some prefer the color temp or softness they get over component, even on a fixed-panel display.
I really feel this is one of those situations where you must try it both in your own environment to see what suits you best.
To put it most simply, the component cables supplied with the 811 are of a good quality. They are not akin to putting 87 octane gas in a Furrarri I say use them with confidence.
Spend that money on better speakers or subwoofer. Use it for a calibration dish such as Avia or VE. Take the S.O. out for dinner. Unless you have the disposable income and you get your rocks off with high end cables, the stock 811 components will do just fine.
I say use them with confidence. Spend that money on better speakers or subwoofer. Use it for a calibration dish such as Avia or VE. Take the S.O. out for dinner. Unless you have the disposable income and you get your rocks off with high end cables, the stock 811 components will do just fine.
gpflepsen said:To put it most simply, the component cables supplied with the 811 are of a good quality. They are not akin to putting 87 octane gas in a Furrarri
Furrarri? Is that some sort of car for dogs?
:haha
Gerry said it purrfectly. The component cable supplied with the 811 is fine. One can buy Avia AND DVE calibration DVD's with the moeny one would throw away on Monster cables.
FYI, the biggest ripoff in audiophile cabling is speaker wire. (Followed a close 2nd by DVI cables.) All one needs is the proper gauge (12-14 for most situations), costing pennies per ft.
FYI, the biggest ripoff in audiophile cabling is speaker wire. (Followed a close 2nd by DVI cables.) All one needs is the proper gauge (12-14 for most situations), costing pennies per ft.
gpflepsen said:
I had a little debate with an "audiophile" on a Sony forum. He swears there is a difference in toslink cables, glass vs. plastic. I think he's nuts for a number of other reasons. But, there is a small amount of validity to what he says about toslink in regard to "jitter". However, it is rarely audible.
People like to think that the money they spend is worthwhile, and that they make smart decisions. If those decisions are proven unwise, it makes them feel foolish, so they tend to defend those choices vigorously. It might also be the reason behind fierce brand loyaly, even to the point of feeling competitive with other brands' customers (which seems especially strong with Dish subs, as well as Ford and Chevy owners).
Wild, wacky stuff.
GaryPen said:
We'll said Gary! I have 3 toslink cables in my current setup. 2 Monsters (they were thrown in by the dealer when I bought my receiver) and a NXG I purchased off ebay for $9.99. I can perceive absolutely no difference in sound quality between them.
The dealer I bought my Denon from also admitted they push Monster brand on customers because of the high markup (over 50% in the higher end stuff). He also admitted you can build or purchase superior cables for a 1/4 of Monster's retail price.
NightRyder
Maybe it was just the one I got, but the component cable that came with my 811 sucked! I tried the gold cable that I had left from my cable company's attempt at HD service, and found the picture much better using that cable instead. Went and bought a gold one @ Best Buy for ~$25, and stuck with it.
As for DVI, after hearing that the cheap ones did just as well, I got one off the net. The PQ was terrible...much worse than component. So, I tried one of the Monster DVI cables and the difference was night and day between it and the cheap DVI cable. The PQ was a good bit better than component on both HD and SD, IMO. Not to say there isnt lesser expensive cables than Monster that will work just as well...just that the one I tried didnt. Got the Monster thru ebay new for ~$60, rather than shelling out $100+ at Circuit City.
As for DVI, after hearing that the cheap ones did just as well, I got one off the net. The PQ was terrible...much worse than component. So, I tried one of the Monster DVI cables and the difference was night and day between it and the cheap DVI cable. The PQ was a good bit better than component on both HD and SD, IMO. Not to say there isnt lesser expensive cables than Monster that will work just as well...just that the one I tried didnt. Got the Monster thru ebay new for ~$60, rather than shelling out $100+ at Circuit City.
I suspect that those who don't see a noticeable improvement w/ DVI over component on a digital medium (DLP, LED, plasma, et al), probably have poor DVI cables, whatever the brand. That said, I bought a Monster DVI cable when I purchased my Sammy DLP and companion Sammy DVI DVD player. When I got the 811, I switched the DVI to it and I use E* component cables for the DVD player (can't yet stomach the cost of a DVI switch). The E* component cables do an adequate job. My DVDs look like everybody else's progressive scan PQ, which is to say, no where near what my DVDs looked like through DVI.
As to Toslink, I use Walmart's stuff, mostly Phillips at about $15. I'll spend more on wire because the quality of the material carrying the signal can affect the signal. But, Toslink technology doesn't depend on the material, so why pay more. It's sort of like a DTV signal. You either get it or you don't. If you don't or have noticeable problems, return it for another one of the same brand at the same price.
As to Toslink, I use Walmart's stuff, mostly Phillips at about $15. I'll spend more on wire because the quality of the material carrying the signal can affect the signal. But, Toslink technology doesn't depend on the material, so why pay more. It's sort of like a DTV signal. You either get it or you don't. If you don't or have noticeable problems, return it for another one of the same brand at the same price.
Carl - If I had your setup with the DVI DVD player, I'd use the DVI on the DVD, and the component on the 811 (I watch way more DVD than HD). Have you tried that arrangement?
Carl B said:
Interesting.... DVI and Toslink both carry digital signals. And they are both "sort of like a DTV signal. You either get it or you don't".
So why would the quality of one matter (DVI) and the other not (Toslink)?
Both are propagating an "all or nothing" digital signal.
I'd say that the quality of the material in a TOSLink cable is probably equally as important as the conductors in a DVI cable (Notice I didn't say how important, just equally as important)
If Toslink cables were perfectly straight, the quality of the cable may not make a difference.. but that is not the case.. In a fiber optic cable, the purity and reflective qualities of the material are critical to predictable accurate transmission of the digital data, as it is constantly being reflected off the surface as it travels from point a to point b. I higher quality cable will have less bit errors, resulting is less audio jitter and breakups.
At least, that's what Monster would probably tell you.
Personally, for digital, I go with the cheapest I can find... I just couldn't buy the argument that it matters for some digital cables (dvi) but not for others (toslink).
