Prepare for another price increase thx to ESPN

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I still think somebody needs to show up at a sports venue with a news truck and claim that they should have the right to cover the game as news for free -- after all, if it's a legitimate fair contest rather than scripted entertainment, how is it copyrightable?
 
It would be simple to reduce the price of gas,eletricity, etc etc. Remove oil from futures market,regulate energy companies,but since big business owns our goverment none of this will happen. Far as espan paying an absurb amount to carry sports one day these networks are gonna price themselves out of business.
 
Well, we can dream. And then wake up and live in reality.

On edit: gee, I should have quoted. Don't see why you deleted.
 
I honestly do not want a la carte programming. I watch a lot of different channels that span lots of different content. I'd probably have to spend $200 to get all the channels I have now. If ESPN went to a separate package I think a lot of people would be upset. We have more customers that want to be able to get ESPN as part of the basic package and hate having to pay more to get their favorite channels.

So everyone should subsidize ESPN so you don't have to pay more. Don't think that seems right. Oh wait, that is what we have now! How about a choice of packages or a la carte? What we have now is ridiculous. It's like going to a store to buy one item but only being able to get it if you buy other items with it. Do you honestly believe you are getting channels for less than they cost just because they are bundled? I bet they would cost less if they weren't bundled. You're paying extra for channels you don't want and channels cost more because everyone has to pay for them in a bundle- no competition or choice. Remember when you had to by a CD to get the one song you wanted?
 
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How about metered rate packages to go along with the traditional channel packages? Say, $30 for 50 hours of TV viewing/recording, $50 for 150 hours, $70 for 300 hours, $105 for unlimited (just like AEP). Charge x amount per hour on overages. Open up all non-premium channels to these packages (except the highest, since it would be just like AEP). It'll give more options to the customer without breaking the customer's bank, and it would still give the sat/cable companies a consistent revenue stream.
 
Because you just want to bitch about Dish?

No, not really. I just think it's silly to automatically blame a channel raising rates a little for Dish increasing rates. There are a lot of dynamics in play there. For example, as I said, Dish could cut it's profit margin, or drop Lifetime type channels to make up the difference, or any number of things. It's possible that ESPN may not ask for a cost increase commensurate with the extra rights fees they're paying, also- I'm sure they'll ask for an increase citing that as one of the reasons, but it may not be quite as dramatic as one would think it'd be based on the increase in fees for NFL, MLB, and college bowl games they've taken on lately. ESPN knows they probably can't actually ask for double their current carriage fee- one would think anyway- but time will tell.

Also, in a hypothetical world where ESPN didn't sign these deals or didn't ask for a fee increase from Dish, do you think Dish would fail to raise rates, or find another reason to raise them? Usually providers price things at the price point that'll maximize profits, it's not all about operating costs. And had ESPN not paid this, NBC Sports Network or some other outlet might have. So it'd still be the same to the end consumer purchasing a package with those channels included.

So when BP, Exxon, Phillips, Conoco, etc.. raise the price of fuel to your local gas station 100%, I guess you expect the local station to just sell it to you at cost or less too.

Local gas stations actually typically don't make much money on gas. They make their profits on the stuff they sell inside the store. So, they've already kind of made an adjustment like what you described, to some extent.

I thought you were switching to cable anyway because Dish didn't offer NBCSN and MSNBC in the basic packages for you?

We'll see. I got a year-long discount and a free Roku box over the AMC thing, so I might stick around for a while. I'm going to see how it goes. There are some bad things about cable, too.

I still think they will keep ESPN in the basic package and move ESPN 2, The U, News and Classic to the sports pack or maybe move them up to AT250

I think ESPN's parent company probably wouldn't allow that. They'd likely saw "All or nothing", or at least say you've got to carry ESPN2 if you want ESPN. I've never heard of anyone carrying ESPN without ESPN2, so it's probably a requirement from ABC-Disney that you carry at least those two if you want to carry anything from them sports wise.

How about a choice of packages or a la carte? What we have now is ridiculous. It's like going to a store to buy one item but only being able to get it if you buy other items with it. Do you honestly believe you are getting channels for less than they cost just because they are bundled? I bet they would cost less if they weren't bundled. You're paying extra for channels you don't want and channels cost more because everyone has to pay for them in a bundle- no competition or choice.

I honestly believe ala carte would cost the average consumer more, yes. Because you're going to have a baseline service fee that you have to pay to stay connected each month, that probably comes with your locals and a few other things. Then let's say you're a well rounded person who isn't into one thing, or you have multiple people in your home with different interests, and then wind up with news, sports, and entertainment packages, etc.. - by the time you add it all up, it'll probably cost you the same or more, and you'll get less. Plus, channels will start adding bits of programming to try to force subscriptions- like all of the sudden the SyFy channel will have a weekly major league baseball game or something. And you'd likely still have to buy FOX News to get MSNBC, and so on and so forth, even if you'd rather be water boarded than watch FOX News- it'd just be "interest packs", not channel by channel. And can you imagine all the headaches and screwups when individual customers all have customized packages with a zillion different options? Imagine trying to get that straight on a troubleshooting call. Could be wrong about all that, but I suspect ala carte isn't going to be a good deal for most people (Maybe it will be for a select few who really just want a couple of channels).

How about metered rate packages to go along with the traditional channel packages? Say, $30 for 50 hours of TV viewing/recording, $50 for 150 hours, $70 for 300 hours, $105 for unlimited (just like AEP). Charge x amount per hour on overages. Open up all non-premium channels to these packages (except the highest, since it would be just like AEP). It'll give more options to the customer without breaking the customer's bank, and it would still give the sat/cable companies a consistent revenue stream.

Most people hate the idea of metered service, especially if you're low income, or trying to watch your spending for whatever reason. It's good to be able to just pay your bill and say "Now I can watch as much as I want" and not have to worry about having to be hyper-vigilant lest you exceed some cap and get slammed with a bill you can't pay, or that you'll struggle to pay. People don't want to be sitting there trying to unwind watching their television set having to be worried and keep track of how much they've watched and how much it costs per hour or whatever. It turns the whole thing into something stressful rather than something relaxing.
 
It will be good if dish put espn channels as premium channel ( heck include watchespn) and reduce all package prices to offset Espn cost. They can even allow people will base package to sub to this. Minority of the subs will be happy.
 
You really need to get realistic.

No, not really. I just think it's silly to automatically blame a channel raising rates a little for Dish increasing rates. There are a lot of dynamics in play there. For example, as I said, Dish could cut it's profit margin, or drop Lifetime type channels to make up the difference, or any number of things. It's possible that ESPN may not ask for a cost increase commensurate with the extra rights fees they're paying, also- I'm sure they'll ask for an increase citing that as one of the reasons, but it may not be quite as dramatic as one would think it'd be based on the increase in fees for NFL, MLB, and college bowl games they've taken on lately. ESPN knows they probably can't actually ask for double their current carriage fee- one would think anyway- but time will tell.

Also, in a hypothetical world where ESPN didn't sign these deals or didn't ask for a fee increase from Dish, do you think Dish would fail to raise rates, or find another reason to raise them? Usually providers price things at the price point that'll maximize profits, it's not all about operating costs. And had ESPN not paid this, NBC Sports Network or some other outlet might have. So it'd still be the same to the end consumer purchasing a package with those channels included.

Lets see, so how is Dish supposed to drop those channels when Disney owns half of them. Disney now owns half of the Lifetime Nets, A&E, History, H2 and BIO. Hearst owns the other half. Suppose NBCSN got NFL or something popular and was demanding base carriage and 100% increase. What is Dish supposed to drop when ComcastNBC owns USA, SYFY, Bravo, Chiller, Cloo, cnbc, MSNBC and whatever else I've forgotton.



Local gas stations actually typically don't make much money on gas. They make their profits on the stuff they sell inside the store. So, they've already kind of made an adjustment like what you described, to some extent.

I own a carwash. My water bill is $700-800 a month. The city has built a new treatment facility and my rates as a business are going to almost double. So now I'm looking at $1400 a month for water, so after gas, elec, water, insurance, payroll, product, mortgage, etc.. I clear about $1500 which goes back to the business because commercial pumps are not cheap when they go out, so I guess you would expect me to eat that rate increase and not raise my rate. So I can eat that cost and lay off my part time employees or I can raise rates and the company has enough operating capital to meet any unforeseen needs and people can keep their jobs.


We'll see. I got a year-long discount and a free Roku box over the AMC thing, so I might stick around for a while. I'm going to see how it goes. There are some bad things about cable, too.

and you said Dish never gives you anything :D



I think ESPN's parent company probably wouldn't allow that. They'd likely saw "All or nothing", or at least say you've got to carry ESPN2 if you want ESPN. I've never heard of anyone carrying ESPN without ESPN2, so it's probably a requirement from ABC-Disney that you carry at least those two if you want to carry anything from them sports wise.

I know as I stated above, Disney is going to say all or nothing, that's why I said only ESPN would be in a base package, the rest would get moved to higher tiers or the sports pack


I honestly believe ala carte would cost the average consumer more, yes. Because you're going to have a baseline service fee that you have to pay to stay connected each month, that probably comes with your locals and a few other things. Then let's say you're a well rounded person who isn't into one thing, or you have multiple people in your home with different interests, and then wind up with news, sports, and entertainment packages, etc.. - by the time you add it all up, it'll probably cost you the same or more, and you'll get less. Plus, channels will start adding bits of programming to try to force subscriptions- like all of the sudden the SyFy channel will have a weekly major league baseball game or something. And you'd likely still have to buy FOX News to get MSNBC, and so on and so forth, even if you'd rather be water boarded than watch FOX News- it'd just be "interest packs", not channel by channel. And can you imagine all the headaches and screwups when individual customers all have customized packages with a zillion different options? Imagine trying to get that straight on a troubleshooting call. Could be wrong about all that, but I suspect ala carte isn't going to be a good deal for most people (Maybe it will be for a select few who really just want a couple of channels).

To some people it would be a higher cost, but to most it would be the same and would probably result in a higher quality of programming as some channels would definitely go away. The interest packs seem to work pretty well in Canada. Even with smaller packs, you are going to get some popular channel added to packs with lots of niche stuff, but in the end more people would be satisfied than not.


Most people hate the idea of metered service, especially if you're low income, or trying to watch your spending for whatever reason. It's good to be able to just pay your bill and say "Now I can watch as much as I want" and not have to worry about having to be hyper-vigilant lest you exceed some cap and get slammed with a bill you can't pay, or that you'll struggle to pay. People don't want to be sitting there trying to unwind watching their television set having to be worried and keep track of how much they've watched and how much it costs per hour or whatever. It turns the whole thing into something stressful rather than something relaxing.


How did this happen? Something we agree on
 
Dishlover said:
So everyone should subsidize ESPN so you don't have to pay more. Don't think that seems right. Oh wait, that is what we have now! How about a choice of packages or a la carte? What we have now is ridiculous. It's like going to a store to buy one item but only being able to get it if you buy other items with it. Do you honestly believe you are getting channels for less than they cost just because they are bundled? I bet they would cost less if they weren't bundled. You're paying extra for channels you don't want and channels cost more because everyone has to pay for them in a bundle- no competition or choice. Remember when you had to by a CD to get the one song you wanted?

I have no doubt at all that channels would cost more. You're either going to pay more for the less popular channels or they'll disappear. Why would ESPN charge less for fewer people to watch their channel. Think about it. Right now they get a certain amount for every customer that has the top 120 regardless if they watch the channel or not. Let's say that 13 million customers. Now if it goes to a la carte do you think those same 13 million customers are going to pay for the channel if they don't have to? No, they only pay for what they want. So now only 10 million customers are willing to pay for the channel. You think ESPN will charge the same rate they were charging for it before now that they have 3 million fewer customers.

I'm not saying it's fair but that's about the best way for everyone to get what they want for a reasonable price. The people on this forum are not the average customer and only represent a very small sample of Dish's demographic. I'd like to know the percentage of all Dish customers that prefer to get ESPN in the basic package instead having to go to a higher package to get it. If you could add the ESPN channels to a package for about $5 it would be worth it but no way it would be that cheap.
 
ESPN is currently in 100 million homes. Currently they charge most US TV providers in the neighborhood of $5.00 monthly per subscriber. On average Dish and other providers charge subscribers 2X what they pay for a channel to cover overhead, admin, marketing profit, etc.

If ESPN was forced to offer their service ala carte they would likely lose half the homes they are in so to cover their nut for all the billion dollar contracts have signed they would have to double their wholesale price to TV providers therefor anyone wanting ESPN would end up paying $18 - $20 a month.
 
And if fewer homes received ESPN thereby lowering their income, ESPN wouldn't be able to bid as much for their contracts to show games/events. Just imagine... pro players would make less money. Nah, that will never happen. :rolleyes:
 
Most people hate the idea of metered service, especially if you're low income, or trying to watch your spending for whatever reason. It's good to be able to just pay your bill and say "Now I can watch as much as I want" and not have to worry about having to be hyper-vigilant lest you exceed some cap and get slammed with a bill you can't pay, or that you'll struggle to pay. People don't want to be sitting there trying to unwind watching their television set having to be worried and keep track of how much they've watched and how much it costs per hour or whatever. It turns the whole thing into something stressful rather than something relaxing.
So, then you just don't choose that option. Simple enough. I clearly said to make metered packages as an additional option to the existing channel packages.
 
No, not really. I just think it's silly to automatically blame a channel raising rates a little for Dish increasing rates. There are a lot of dynamics in play there. For example, as I said, Dish could cut it's profit margin, or drop Lifetime type channels to make up the difference, or any number of things. It's possible that ESPN may not ask for a cost increase commensurate with the extra rights fees they're paying, also- I'm sure they'll ask for an increase citing that as one of the reasons, but it may not be quite as dramatic as one would think it'd be based on the increase in fees for NFL, MLB, and college bowl games they've taken on lately. ESPN knows they probably can't actually ask for double their current carriage fee- one would think anyway- but time will tell.
This isn't about Dish. It is about ESPN making ridiculous bids to be an exclusive broadcaster of certain sporting events. When ESPN bids this high, they aren't bidding with their money. They are bidding with our money because they have to raise rates. You can whine all you want about Dish being capable of taking it in the butt and making less money themselves, but the source isn't Dish's desire to be profitable enough to exist, but with ESPN making ridiculous bids.

They aren't the only ones. Look at NBC. They bid very high for the Olympics. What did we get? Very staggered Prime Time coverage with no live coverage of important events. Why? Because they need the advertising revenue to pay for their ridiculous bidding price. So our viewing ability is hampered because NBC wanted to be the broadcaster and felt that it was more important to ensure being the broadcaster by forcing such a high bid and then needing to mess up the coverage of what they bid to broadcast in order to make money.

That is insanity!

So then we have Disney/ESPN who are bidding ridiculous sums to show Monday Night Football and Major League Baseball. Can they afford these bids? Not without higher pay rates. In fact, in order to get ESPN3, your ISP has to subscribe to them... even though most of their customers probably don't use the ESPN3 site. ESPN wants everyone to pay, those who do and don't use the product. Why? Because they can't afford to pay outrageous fees to get the broadcasting rights for certain programming. If they didn't force the high bids, we wouldn't have to endure the relentless commercials and higher TV rates. They are the source, not Dish. Dish and Directv, and the cable companies, excluding Comcast, are what stand in the way between skyrocketing rates.
 
I thought this was all supposed to work on a ratings system. The more viewers a channel gets, the more they can charge advertisers for air time. This is why a 30 second superbowl spot is a million dollars. If the channel isn't carried by a provider, that is less viewers which should equal less advertising $$$$. This is why I say the providers need to stick together.
Lets say Dish drops ESPN. We need D*, and Comcast to say, don't bother signing with us just for the channel, because when our time comes, we also aren't going to pay their outlandish request for an increase. ESPN can't afford to be dumped by several providers.
 
I thought this was all supposed to work on a ratings system. The more viewers a channel gets, the more they can charge advertisers for air time. This is why a 30 second superbowl spot is a million dollars. If the channel isn't carried by a provider, that is less viewers which should equal less advertising $$$$. This is why I say the providers need to stick together.
Lets say Dish drops ESPN. We need D*, and Comcast to say, don't bother signing with us just for the channel, because when our time comes, we also aren't going to pay their outlandish request for an increase. ESPN can't afford to be dumped by several providers.

And what about "if you love sports, you gotta get Directv."? I hear that countless times during just about every major sporting event. Do you really think a company that prides itself on having more sports offerings than anyone else would even consider pulling the #1 sports network? I don't think so.

ESPN MNF games constantly dominate the cable ratings during the season. Big college games get big numbers too. The fact is that people flat out watch ESPN. I find myself watching less SportsCenter and more MLB Network and NFL Network but I would never subscribe to a company that didn't offer the ESPN channels. They are the only way to see a lot of live sporting events that I want to see.
 
I love ESPN just as much as the next guy, but something has to give eventually. I could do without them for a while if I knew that the providers were sticking together to really get lower prices. I do realize that this is wishful thinking. Instead of sticking together, the providers use these battles to gain new customers when the other provider loses a station.
Does anyone know, or is their a way to find out when the current contracts run out with any of the providers?
 
I thought this was all supposed to work on a ratings system. The more viewers a channel gets, the more they can charge advertisers for air time. This is why a 30 second superbowl spot is a million dollars. If the channel isn't carried by a provider, that is less viewers which should equal less advertising $$$$. This is why I say the providers need to stick together.
Lets say Dish drops ESPN. We need D*, and Comcast to say, don't bother signing with us just for the channel, because when our time comes, we also aren't going to pay their outlandish request for an increase. ESPN can't afford to be dumped by several providers.

The networks would then bring up allegations of collusion on the part of the video providers
 
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2012...-ticket-returns-to-ps3-launches-in-september/

according to the NFL, this will be available on more devices soon. MLB, NHL already have theirs. NBA is sure to follow. it's amazing contracts are still able to command so much money when there are more viewing sources available.

unfortunately, people who have satellite as their only option will be stuck between a rock and a hard place as things continue in this manner.
 
I own a carwash. My water bill is $700-800 a month. The city has built a new treatment facility and my rates as a business are going to almost double. So now I'm looking at $1400 a month for water, so after gas, elec, water, insurance, payroll, product, mortgage, etc.. I clear about $1500 which goes back to the business because commercial pumps are not cheap when they go out, so I guess you would expect me to eat that rate increase and not raise my rate. So I can eat that cost and lay off my part time employees or I can raise rates and the company has enough operating capital to meet any unforeseen needs and people can keep their jobs.

It's possible you might not double the cost per car wash, though, if you felt it would meant the majority of your customers would go without, go to the competition, or wash their own cars with a hose. Losing 50% of your customers might put you out of business faster than reducing your profit margin. Alternately, you might decide to split the difference and say "Okay, costs are up 100%, but I know if I raise the price to the end costumer 100%, I'll be out of business, so how about I give them a smaller rate increase they can swallow more easily where they'll keep patronizing my business, while cutting my profits just a little bit instead of a lot?".

Also, and I have no idea how much car washes cost, but let's say they cost $30, and at $30 you were getting all the business you could handle. If suddenly the city halved your bills, you might not half the price of a car wash to $15. After all, if you're making $30 a car, and you have all the cars you can handle, dropping the price wouldn't make you more money. On the other hand, if you were under capacity or could build out more capacity, you might drop your price to $15 (Or some point in between $15 and $30) to lure in more customers because of those reduced costs.

I am not saying a businesses expenses have no impact on the end cost, I'm just saying there isn't always a direct and exact correlation. Market forces other than costs often come into play.

and you said Dish never gives you anything

Well, until that moment, they hadn't, but I was pleased to get the Roku and the discount. :) It has definitely improved my impression of Dish. Cable never gave me a Roku. ;) Plus, I know $5 off a month may not be a lot, but it does make a difference to me on a low income, and may be enough to keep me from dropping off Dish when my contract expires. It expands the price differential between them and cable's regular price, and I need to save money (Though that is played off the short-term money I'd save with a promo rate).

I've learned the hard way not to make a television provider a lifetime commitment, though, from cable raising my rates through the roof till I had to cancel them, and from hearing about people losing channels on satellite. So, we'll see what rate increases come and what channels, if any, are lost, and how important they are to me (I couldn't swallow losing Ravens, Orioles, or Capitals games, for example, but I was able to swallow the AMC thing.). Plus, I'll have to look at whether it makes sense to bundle when my cable Internet discount expires (Thought it was going to this summer, but then realized I had a still-discounted, but just not as much, rate through *next* summer). But right now tentatively I'm planning to stay put. I realize none of these companies are perfect, and all things being equal, I like to be loyal and stay where I'm at if things work out alright.


I know as I stated above, Disney is going to say all or nothing, that's why I said only ESPN would be in a base package, the rest would get moved to higher tiers or the sports pack

Channel tier placement is part of negotiations. What I was trying to say was that Disney might say "We refuse to agree to a contract where ESPN is on AT120 and ESPN2 and the others are only available on AT250 or in a sports pack.". My guess is that Disney would at least require that ESPN and ESPN2 be in AT120. Who knows, though. We'll see what happens.
 
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