President Of Dish Spoke The Truth

I just want the LA HD Nets to be in MPEG-2. :(

At least Bob. D has a chance of getting OTA (if he puts up a HUGE antenna), but I'm 15 miles west of him, and farther around the mountain. Ain't gonna happen here. :(
 
tim552 said:
I'm beginning to think that only the male species is capable of recognizing HD when they see it...
That assumption would be incorrect (and it's genders that are different, not species).
 
spindoctor said:
so what you are saying E* on 12 million subs has only 600.000 subs that they
care about their equipment (HD and nonHD users) so in reality we are looking at
up to 600.000 HD receivers .
I thought there are over 2 million HD receivers, so would that mean 1.4 million HD users don't care , well i find that hard to swallow.
while i agree about not many people knowing MPEG4 and are not techno geeks
but lets look around how many have HDTV , many don't visit forums but they have friends or neighbors who know things or have lots of money and they get the help they want .
Of those people i can tell you most everyone wants the best picture possible
and they too want to show other friends their HDTV.

So if most people dont care why would they buy new MPEG4 eqipment that they
dont know about

about the programming ,so why hold a news conference about VOOM channels
and MPEG4 equipment that non techno people would not understand and the majority of the subs dont care.

maybe they want us to be the guinea pigs,the testers, the troubleshooters, and to report problems as if we are their employees not on payroll and for us to spread the word.
YOU KNOW WHAT ? YOU CAN COUNT ME OUT
and THE HOW MUCH, i find it very hypocritical for them to complain about lifetime
wanting more money and in return they announce THE RAISING OF PRICES
do they expect people to do the same
MAYBE THATS WHAT WE SHOULD SPREAD OUT.

Actually SD, all those reasons that you cite, are making BMW & Mercedes all kinds of money. Of course I have no way to prove this, but I bet you that at least half, if not more, of the subs wtih HD equipment got it just because, High Definition is the "in thing". I know two people right now who have HDTV sets & refuse to pay the extra for the expanded HDTV channels. The iPod is proving that quality does not matter. Alas, I fear, this is just another battle of form over function, & form is kicking you-know-what & taken' names.
 
dlsnyder said:
My guess is that those who actually _watch_ HD programming are more tech-savvy than those who don't. We bought a new HDTV early last year and the first thing I had to do was get an 811 for the HD programming. I hooked it all up and my wife said "I don't see the difference". I can see the difference, but to my wife it's just TV.

Yep, I suspect your wife & my girlfriend & her mother are alll the same in this aspect. As long as it's now something super obvious like snow or ghosting, 'good ole anolouge' is good enough. How will this ever change?
 
To answer your question about change a bit, there are many females that are aware of audio/video quality, but to a great extent they have been marginalized.

For things to change, the first step is (and many people ignore this), is to include your SO or wife in your purchasing research. Everyone responds differently to stimuli and what may look or sound good to you (the "general" you) may not be the best choice for "her". She may notice something you don't, like DLP rainbows, aliasing, motion lag, motion judder as these may appear more in the "foreground" now depending on display type or size. She may see dithering, flickering, strobing or something else that may make it an uncomfortable viewing experience. If your SO if not getting the same thing you are from it, I would ask "why?". It *really* just may not be an interest, or it may be something else.

Slightly OT but on the audio side, the same applies for audio gear. I've found what may sound "crisp" and "detailed" to some men may in turn sound "bright" or "harsh" to females. And the reverse. Many women I know do not care for DVD DTS soundtracks and get fatigued from them, including myself. On the surface it sounds better at first, then becomes uncomfortable after a while. Now I've been told I'm flat out wrong on that, that it is the same as PCM, but it is not. Either something is boosted in the mix or there is a coloration from the codec(s) (the theatrical release and home video are different) but whichever it can end up with the same result, fatigue. The same with some upmix/derived 5.1 DD soundtracks.

Many years ago there was a problem with a local channel. There was a very high pitched artifact present in the audio signal. It took months to fix even though myself and many others complained. The engineers could not hear it- but virtually *all* of my female co-workers did. It was eventually tracked down to a faulty switch causing the audio artifact (at least that was what I was told). In the meantime I did my best to filter it out by EQ-ing down the upper frequencies (which helped some).

I'm actually not really dismissive on analog video. A pristine analog signal into the home (which is extremely rare) can be a thing of beauty.

But back to the topic at hand, I have an older 42" Panasonic ED PDP. Some will just dismiss any observations of PQ out of hand because in *theory* I should not be able to tell differences within (1080i x) * and/or bitrate reduction on that display but I have noticed differences. So has my husband. Everything does downscale to native, but the better the incoming source is, the better it looks coming back out. I could tell the difference immediately between Comcast HD and Voom HD (the service proper, not the E* package) and mentioned it (and got some sh*t back for it sometimes). But Voom could look *really, really* good (especially with the old Moto encoders) and as a service was more reliable than Comcast, the pricing was right, and I liked a lot of the programming so I stayed with it.

That having been said- I am not happy with what I have been seeing on E*, especially on the VOOM channels. We have called about it (and other issues with the service) and am looking into other options, including going back to OTA only for HD.
 
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SimpleSimon said:
I just want the LA HD Nets to be in MPEG-2. :(

At least Bob. D has a chance of getting OTA (if he puts up a HUGE antenna), but I'm 15 miles west of him, and farther around the mountain. Ain't gonna happen here. :(

I agree (but NY DNS for the east coast too). All Dish had to do was put something in their orginal press release insuring existing HD subs get a fair and immediate upgrade to an equivlent MPEG4 receiver and that the 3 remaining HD DNS would go up in MPEG2 and it would have made a world of difference in how everything was accepted.

Maybe if they didn't already have such a proven track record of trying to screw existing customers, their statment about "convienent" upgrade would have been enough but they have it and it isn't.
 
Gary Murrell said:
women are not going to care about picture quality, thats just the way things are, it's nature

-Gary

But just let something get misrepresented on a shopping channel and see the fur fly.
 
Gary Murrell said:
women are not going to care about picture quality, thats just the way things are, it's nature
-Gary
Not true- my wife is addicted to HD. She now comments about how crappy some of the non-HD programming looks. I always knew she had good taste- she married me! :smug
 
I've caught my wife staring at the weather graphics on HDNews (and they weren't for our part of the country.)

One point in all of this...DBS has always had a degraded picture. It's the nature of the beast. If I had access to digital cable, or even OTA HD, I probably wouldn't have DISH. But I have NO cable and NO OTA HD. When I lived in the city, I had 37 channel analog cable...that's when I switched to DirecTV. I wanted more choice. But the picture was worse most of the time (except for some ghosting on cable.)

DBS is a trade-off for some people, and the only choice for others. I would love to see everything in full resolution- SD and HD, but it's never going to be. No matter what they do, it will always be the best option for me. The point is, HD-Lite is still better than anything else I can put into my TV until Blu-Ray/HD-DVD (which I refuse to jump into until things shake out.) And even then, I will still watch television. And I will still be happy with my HD channels, even if they aren't as good as they could be.

BTW, I'm not an engineer, but wouldn't a downrezzed signal be better than an overcompressed one, as long as it's done well? Correct me if I'm wrong (like I have to invite you. :) )
 
SimpleSimon said:
I just want the LA HD Nets to be in MPEG-2. :(
At least Bob. D has a chance of getting OTA (if he puts up a HUGE antenna), but I'm 15 miles west of him, and farther around the mountain. Ain't gonna happen here. :(

HOA does not permit a huge antenna--and neither does my wife! And I have waivers for ABC, CBS, and NBC already, Simon.
 
What do you people mean that most people don't care? Every person will care when their bill goes up $5, and then when they call in they're told that it's because they're paying for 2 stations that they can't receive with their equipment.
 
What I said-
To answer your question about change a bit, there are many females that are aware of audio/video quality, but to a great extent they have been marginalized.
and
I am not happy with what I have been seeing on E*, especially on the VOOM channels.
Some responses:
women are not going to care about picture quality, thats just the way things are, it's nature
- Gary M
But just let something get misrepresented on a shopping channel and see the fur fly. - waltinvt

Wow...

***

M Sparks, they play hand in hand as far as resolution/bitrate go. The higher the resolution, yep, the more backing data you need to keep the image integrity intact so it doesn't become too brittle and literally fall apart (especially with movement) to avoid excessive block noise or background flaring, mosiac patterns, etc.

Another factor is generational loss with recompression.

But a lower resolution image with a high data rate (I'll use the example of 720x486 @ 180mb/sec) while an excellent picture, still can't come close to HD.
 
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Deeann, you certainly are not the average ordinary Female, everyone here knows and can see that ;), it's nice to see your kind on these forums

I understand where you are coming from, but 99 out of 100 women couldn't give 2 sheets about Pix quality, you need to teach them because they certainly won't listen to us :D

-Gary
 
Gary Murrell said:
Deeann, you certainly are not the average ordinary Female, everyone here knows and can see that ;), it's nice to see your kind on these forums
I understand where you are coming from, but 99 out of 100 women couldn't give 2 sheets about Pix quality, you need to teach them because they certainly won't listen to us :D
-Gary
My wife has really come around recently to the differences in picture quality between SD and HD, it's just taken a lot lot longer than it would for your average videophile geek guy. The other night we were watching Leno (Letterman was a repeat), and her exact words were "Wow, that picture looks amazing!". So there ya go. I think the way to get the girls into this is to somehow make them believe that HD is something they can brag/chat with their friends about and it's a "must have" item. Once you get the girlfriends yappin, it will blow up! :D

/married 11 years :up
//her fave channel now is Voom KungFu
///trying to explain the down-rez thing to her is proving difficult
 

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