Problem w/ switch on 622 w/ power inserter -- did the 'cable guy' screw me up?

[shanewalker]

So my bedroom 622 has been running near flawlessly for just shy of a year now. I have my dish on the roof my 4-story condo building with lines running down to our 1st floor unit (running down the south face and spliced into some of the pre-existing exterior cable wiring to feed the 3 rooms). Note, this particular 622 receiver has the power inserter that was installed at the time the 622 was (when I swapped it out from an 811 that had been there prior). I have another 622 in the living room and a 211 in my office. All have been great and trouble free for many a moon.

Flash to 2 weeks ago: I live in a 4-flat condo building and the unit below me just had new people move in. They had a cable tech out to activate service and apparently the fellow was in a tizzy because the existing wiring was done 'illogically'. My wife said he was out huffing and puffing and working frantically on the south side of our building--and working around the wiring that feeds our three rooms from our dish.

Suddenly, the day of this cable service, the 622 in the bedroom goes belly up with a switch error. My wife told me about the cable service and I went out and looked at the wiring...didn't see anything glaringly out-of-sorts. Finally, I got the 622 up-and-running and green light on the switch by pulling power on the power inserter and the 622 for about a half hour. I wondered if, somehow, recent lightning storms or summer heat had, I dunno, built up charge in the lines and thought a power down might help. It worked. Things seemed to be fine.

So, now I just had a second 'switch' failure on this reciever, and I tried the power down again. It only worked partially (the switch test only gave me green for 2 satellites of the 4).

So, what else should I try? What could be the cause? Did the cable guy do something, and if so, what could it be.

Please note--neither of the other two receivers had any problems through this entire episode.

Do I need to call Dish? I'm really not anxious to spend $80 on a service call...

 

[rcdallas]

If it smells like fish, it could be fish?

Is the 44 switch outside?, it's possible the cable dawg could have swapped the lines on the ports - thus power inserter is no longer on port one.

If you can trace the line out, and it's safe to do so, then by all means check it.

If you still have to pay for a service call, and the root cause was from the dawg make sure that particular company get's fitted with the bill.

 

[shanewalker]

Yeah, I think the coincidence is too strong to fully ignore.

The perplexing thing is, the switch is up on the roof, right? So why would the cable guy go up on the roof? But maybe he tugged hard on the line drop in question...so maybe line 1 is messed up at the switch due to such.

One question I have is, since I'm doing overnight recording (w/ dvd recorder & R5000HD, which means the unit is on all night) and have a Slingbox plugged into this receiver, its got connects and longer/extended 'on' times than the other receivers (though we watch more TV on the 622 in the living room). This, combined w/ the fact that the power inserter is on it--does this make a power/static build-up leading to over-oscillation of the signal a likely culprit, too? I'm not too technically adept at these issues, it's just one of those gut things.

 

[rcdallas]

Check the cabling, could now be a barrel in the line or some other sort of rig.

I wouldn't indulge too much on what your thinkin with being powered on too long. Keep it simple.

 

[shanewalker]

Can you elaborate on 'a barrel in the line'?

I've narrowed it down to a definite "location" issue, it's NOT the receiver...I did a swap w/ my office 211 and the 211 experienced the same switch issues. The 622 worked fine when attached to the line in the office.

 

[shanewalker]

Service call set up for this Sunday, the 12th.

Wish me luck. Hope its just tightening a couple of things at the switch, resetting everything, and voila...but we'll see. I'm keeping fingers crossed there's been no actual switch or line damage here...or I'm going to have a full Sunday indeed.

 

[shanewalker]

Success!!

So, it was a quick service visit. The two gents that showed up for the repair listened to my summation and set to doing line tests and checking connections at the switch...all (to my surprise) checked out, but there could have been a little looseness at the switch for line 1.

What they found/said about the ultimate solution was interesting. Basically, part of the prob was that I didn't need the power inserter. The other problem was possibly part of my equipment set-up. Now...why it was working up until the cable guy paid a visit downstairs, is beyond all of us. Point is that its all working peachy now. So, my issue was...

I have a Belkin PureA/V surge supressor and power conditioner in the setup. The 622 doesn't need the power inserter...why it 'needed' one according to the initial installers was a mystery to the techs, but it combined w/ the coaxial going through the Belkin surge surpressor seemed a red flag that could cause a degredation of the high band signal the 622/Dish 500 uses. Once the power conditioner and the Belkiin were bypassed, all worked fine.

So, short answer: Don't use a power inserter w/ a 622. And don't put your coaxial through a surge supressor, even though at first blush it seems like a prudent thing to do.

The two gentlemen were thorough, checked the other two recievers to make sure all was well...and, all told, were in and out of our place within 30 min.

 

[Pepper]

I have a Belkin PureA/V surge supressor and power conditioner in the setup. The 622 doesn't need the power inserter...why it 'needed' one according to the initial installers was a mystery to the techs, but it combined w/ the coaxial going through the Belkin surge surpressor seemed a red flag that could cause a degredation of the high band signal the 622/Dish 500 uses. Once the power conditioner and the Belkiin were bypassed, all worked fine.

I would agree about the surge suppressor and power conditioner but I'm not aware of any reason to not use a Power Inserter with a DPP44 switch. It might work without one and it might work that way for a long time but it could be drawing more current than the receiver is designed to provide. There have been arguments in several threads about this.

 

[shanewalker]

The techs said that the 622 provides its own power for the line, so the power inserter was redundant and/or problematic as it might (I assume) overmodulate. Don't know if thats 100% correct, but as I didn't need a power inserter before the addition of this 622 (I had a 622 and two 211s, then upgraded one leased 211 to this purchased 622--that's when the previous tech added the power inserter), it sort of made sense. At the time the power inserter was added, I assumed it was needed because the newly added 622 was 2-tuner and was thus drawing more off the switch/system than the 211 it was replacing. I hope that, come winter temps, I don't find that the signal strength is indeed 'on the edge'. I still have the power inserter, so at least I can implement it if necessary (we do have extreme temps in Chicago and I know it affected long cable TV runs when I had Comcast).

I can't recall if the surge supressor/power conditioner was in place at the time of this 622 original install or not (it may have been; might have been added shortly after). If not, it was apparently just lucky that the insertion of it in the signal path didn't result in signal failure when it was added.

 

[rcdallas]

Power inserter is required for DPP44 switch. It'll work, but only for so long.... yeah the surge suppressors not good for DPP technology. Ironic as you say after the K-bel guy came.

 

[shanewalker]

So, the power inserter IS necessary for 622 recievers? I wish I knew if the DPP44 was in place when I had the 622 and two 211s (i.e. before the upgrade of this room to a 2nd 622, when the power inserter was put in). I wonder, if you're correct about an eventual switch failure w/out the inserter, just how long I've got--Its been working fine since the service call?

I've got 90 days before being charged for another visit.

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

The receiver, 622 or any other had nothing do to with the power inserter. Receivers use 110 V AC power and need nothing else. The LNB atop the dish antenna is powered by the receiver providing voltage up the coxial lines as are all switches. Some switches such as a DP34 are powered by receivers and work fine. However a DPP44 switch, MUST have a power inserter going into port 1 on the switch. They will work for a time without them but eventually they fail. I will get the power inserter on the DPP44 if that is the switch you have right away.

 

[rglore]

The 622 receivers have enough power for one DPP item, either a DPP44 external switch or a DPP LNB (integrated switch) but not both. If the LNB(s) are DP, should be OK.

 

[shanewalker]

The 622 receivers have enough power for one DPP item, either a DPP44 external switch or a DPP LNB (integrated switch) but not both. If the LNB(s) are DP, should be OK.

Will a 'System Info' query on the receiver tell me anything about the LNBs, or does one have to go up on the roof and get a visual to know? If I call Dish, will they be able to tell me? I know I've got a DPP44 switch, but not sure about them (whether they're DP). DP stands for what, exactly, btw?

Thanks,
Shane.

PS -- Still wondering whether I should put the power inserter back in, proactively, or wait and see if the switch fails first. Any potential downside to doing one or the other?

 

[ezriser]

It will be cheaper to add the power inserter than to wait for it to fail and you have to buy another one-not cheap. I have said before that i have had my 44 switch hooked up for over 2 years w/o the piower inserter and haven't had any problems. If you are so concerned with what the outcome could be, hook it up.

 

[shanewalker]

My concern is changing something the service techs did...then voiding my 90-day warranty on the work they did. I also shouldn't have to pay for the switch, that's covered by my warranty w/ Dish.

I'm thinking I should leave it be for now--if I get a switch error in the near term (w/in the repair warranty window) I'll just call the guys out and have them re-install the power inserter (and, hopefully not, replace the switch if necessary).

I'm just confused how they, being these latest service techs, could be so certain that the inserter was not necessary w/ my system config, while others are equally certain that it is (including the tech that put it in place to begin with).

 

[FitzAusTex]

DPP44 switches really should have the power inserter on port 1. i'd think if the tech guys that came out took off the inserter and you have a DPP44, then it would be their responsibility if the LNBs failed. i'd call them and inquire. they're supposed to know a power inserter is required, and they know E* requires it. if reinstalling the inserter causes you to have your original issue again, i'd say they're going to have to figure out the true cause. removing the inserter, just because it 'fixes' the issue, was not the proper course of action.

 

[WiCkeDuDe]

You should be able to put it in without causing harm. I have seen many cases where it was not there and the DPP44 did not work. As a tech I never heard that the 622 was capable of providing enough voltage for a DPP44 and other receivers were not. Not saying that is wrong but I was never taught that.

 

[Jared Twomey]

i've had some on really short runs (5-10 feet), and with just 1 622, that with the power inserter I couldnt get a good check switch. Remove the power inserter and everything worked fine. i always install the inserter, unless I have problems, then i try it without it.