Anybody have any news on a fix for the horizontal line that is not in sync with the rest of the image? Is it just a bad batch of IRD's or is it on all RCA 210's? The line appears on all HD programing either over the air or D* when the camera pans vertically. Very noticeable during the football games.
RCA DTC-210 Horizontal Line Sync Problem
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I could be wrong but I beleive I saw a post either here or someone on the avsforum that someone found it had to do with whether your input was set to 480i, 720p, or 1080i. Could be wrong.
Am Having the Same Problem
As a ten year customer of DirecTV, the company did me the favor of sending out the RCA DTC210 'junk in a box'. My analysis (performed during a tennis match in HD) indicates that the top right quad is shifted toward the center by one pixel and the top left quad is shifted toward the center by a similar one pixel.
So we pay $3,000 for a HDTV monitor (Sony KDF-50WE655) and then DirecTV sends out $50 worth of junk signal decoder and expects us to be pleased with their service.
The problem doesn't occur with the signal from the DVD. I also switched from the Monster DVI-HDMI cable to component video, but the sync problem (rip) could still be seen.
DirecTV is sending me the Sansung SIR TS360, but I don't know whether it will fix the problem or introduce new ones.
Any information would be appreciated.
As a ten year customer of DirecTV, the company did me the favor of sending out the RCA DTC210 'junk in a box'. My analysis (performed during a tennis match in HD) indicates that the top right quad is shifted toward the center by one pixel and the top left quad is shifted toward the center by a similar one pixel.
So we pay $3,000 for a HDTV monitor (Sony KDF-50WE655) and then DirecTV sends out $50 worth of junk signal decoder and expects us to be pleased with their service.
The problem doesn't occur with the signal from the DVD. I also switched from the Monster DVI-HDMI cable to component video, but the sync problem (rip) could still be seen.
DirecTV is sending me the Sansung SIR TS360, but I don't know whether it will fix the problem or introduce new ones.
Any information would be appreciated.
the samsung will fix the problem, but the samsung don't get all of the local hd channels as good.
the samsung doesn't lock on some of the local hd channels OTA.
I would stay with the RCA 210 if i would be u, maybe directv will have a fix to it, maybe with a software update.
fingers crossed.
the samsung doesn't lock on some of the local hd channels OTA.
I would stay with the RCA 210 if i would be u, maybe directv will have a fix to it, maybe with a software update.
fingers crossed.
Try setting output to 720p
In order to get rid of the horizontal line you need to set your DTC210 to output at 720p. Below is a link to a thread on AVSforum where many people claim to have solved the problem by doing just this and noticed no degradation in picture quality between 1080i and 720p (which is something I've heard before outside of this issue). http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...8088&perpage=20&highlight=dtc210&pagenumber=1
Note: The link above is to a very lengthy thread - the issue with the horizontal line is addressed pretty far into the thread (last few pages). Good luck.
-Matt
In order to get rid of the horizontal line you need to set your DTC210 to output at 720p. Below is a link to a thread on AVSforum where many people claim to have solved the problem by doing just this and noticed no degradation in picture quality between 1080i and 720p (which is something I've heard before outside of this issue). http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...8088&perpage=20&highlight=dtc210&pagenumber=1
Note: The link above is to a very lengthy thread - the issue with the horizontal line is addressed pretty far into the thread (last few pages). Good luck.
-Matt
1080i to 720p?
Yes, this so-called "fix" seems to eliminate the pixel shift problem (horizontal line sync), but with my newer rear projection Sony 50WE655 the picture quality degradation is unacceptable. Maybe the fix is that now I can't see it because the image is less crisp. I paid for high quality and I (and the rest of us) shouldn't settle for less.
I did get a senior tech representative to acknowledge that this problem is being widely reported. He couldn't say whether DirecTV was working on a fix. Anyone experiencing the problem should call DirecTV and register a complaint. Hopefully, the squeaky gear will get some oil.
Yes, this so-called "fix" seems to eliminate the pixel shift problem (horizontal line sync), but with my newer rear projection Sony 50WE655 the picture quality degradation is unacceptable. Maybe the fix is that now I can't see it because the image is less crisp. I paid for high quality and I (and the rest of us) shouldn't settle for less.
I did get a senior tech representative to acknowledge that this problem is being widely reported. He couldn't say whether DirecTV was working on a fix. Anyone experiencing the problem should call DirecTV and register a complaint. Hopefully, the squeaky gear will get some oil.
Original Post
"You would be better off performing picture centering from your TV. The DTC-210 is already pre-configured for absolute center by default and highly recommend turning off auto resolution. Since this receiver does not support 480i component, try S-Vid for SD and 720p for HD programming, no red line. In auto resolution on non RCA TV's, SD channels are converted to 480p no red line, but 480p conversion looks blury. Native 1080i has good PQ, but a red line. Perhaps on a RCA TV, awsome, or perhaps by design, to make any other manuf's TV look awful. The red line, or so I have been told, is an output side effect of the auto resolution sync signal for SYNCROSCAN compatible TV's.
If you have a 4:3 aspect ratio TV, the receiver should also be in 4:3 aspect ratio. In SD mode, the TV controls interpretation of aspect ratio. In DVI or component modes, the receiver controls aspect ratio. If the receiver is not in the proper aspect ratio while watching SD programming, you will get over scan. Incompatible SD aspect ratio's and TV receiver format modes can complicate matters. Make sure your TV is in always in normal mode, TV zoom/pan/fit/lb/pb off, control these modes from the receiver. If you want to stretch 4:3 SD content on a 16:9 TV via S-Vid, refered to as TV Wide, that's ok. Compensating on the receiver for mis-matched TV settings can result in the appearance of poor PQ."
"You would be better off performing picture centering from your TV. The DTC-210 is already pre-configured for absolute center by default and highly recommend turning off auto resolution. Since this receiver does not support 480i component, try S-Vid for SD and 720p for HD programming, no red line. In auto resolution on non RCA TV's, SD channels are converted to 480p no red line, but 480p conversion looks blury. Native 1080i has good PQ, but a red line. Perhaps on a RCA TV, awsome, or perhaps by design, to make any other manuf's TV look awful. The red line, or so I have been told, is an output side effect of the auto resolution sync signal for SYNCROSCAN compatible TV's.
If you have a 4:3 aspect ratio TV, the receiver should also be in 4:3 aspect ratio. In SD mode, the TV controls interpretation of aspect ratio. In DVI or component modes, the receiver controls aspect ratio. If the receiver is not in the proper aspect ratio while watching SD programming, you will get over scan. Incompatible SD aspect ratio's and TV receiver format modes can complicate matters. Make sure your TV is in always in normal mode, TV zoom/pan/fit/lb/pb off, control these modes from the receiver. If you want to stretch 4:3 SD content on a 16:9 TV via S-Vid, refered to as TV Wide, that's ok. Compensating on the receiver for mis-matched TV settings can result in the appearance of poor PQ."
Not Relevant to the Discussion
Interesting GWHD, but off topic comments.
The line sync being discussed here is not a "red line." The problem exists on a Sony in 1080i mode. It is a pixel shift of the upper left quad toward the center of the screen -> and a corresponding upper right quad pixel shift toward the center of the screen <-. The offset is then seen as a virtual horizontal line across the screen and only "visible" when the HD camera pans up and down.
DirecTV has sent me two replacement units, and the swaps didn't fix the problem. The DirecTV tech will arrive on Saturday to "troubleshoot" and see if he can 'pull a rabbit out of the hat'.
Manually setting the set to 720p does obscure the problem, but also degrades the overall image quality. My suspicion is that the RCA design is incompatible with certain makes of HDTVs and creates the misalignment.
DirecTV and RCA need to address the problem.
Interesting GWHD, but off topic comments.
The line sync being discussed here is not a "red line." The problem exists on a Sony in 1080i mode. It is a pixel shift of the upper left quad toward the center of the screen -> and a corresponding upper right quad pixel shift toward the center of the screen <-. The offset is then seen as a virtual horizontal line across the screen and only "visible" when the HD camera pans up and down.
DirecTV has sent me two replacement units, and the swaps didn't fix the problem. The DirecTV tech will arrive on Saturday to "troubleshoot" and see if he can 'pull a rabbit out of the hat'.
Manually setting the set to 720p does obscure the problem, but also degrades the overall image quality. My suspicion is that the RCA design is incompatible with certain makes of HDTVs and creates the misalignment.
DirecTV and RCA need to address the problem.
DanS said:
GWHD said:
This issue takes two forms non Sony/RCA HDTV's = subtle horizontal red line in interlaced modes, Sony = distorted pixel shift, RCA = no issue. Sony and RCA attempt to use transparent proprietary technologies utilizing side frequencies and carrier signals which are incompatible with each other in order to enhance their own branded HDTV models.
I have revealed recommendations in this post that address this issue on most non RCA HDTV models. "off topic", I must now leave this post.
No doubt the RCA receiver matched with an RCA HD TV produces an "awesome" picture.
I solved the problem discussed above by purchasing a Sony HD300 to sync with my Grand Vega, rear-projection, Sony KDF-50WE655. The pair work beautifully together. The HD picture is now equal or better than the image I first saw at Circuit City. The annoying distorted pixel shift (at 1080i) is now GONE(!) and there is a substantial picture quality improvement in SD mode (480). As was mentioned above, "SD channels are converted to 480p...but 480p conversion looks blury." The circuitry in the Sony units automatically sync to optimize display mode and alternative modes somehow are look better and are more useable.
It's mind boggling to think people are each dropping several thousands of dollars on HD units and then tolerating the distorted pixel shift! It's hard for me to believe that the salesforce at Circuit City was "unaware" of this problem when they took my money. I won't be quick to recommend them.
Under threat to drop service, DirecTV finally acknowledged the issue, refunded the equipment charge, and included a $35 credit to boot. Given the popularity of Sony HD TVs, DirecTV better pull their head out of the sand and face the reputational risk head on. The public is not blind! The DirecTV service is only as good as the weakest link in the technology chain.
I solved the problem discussed above by purchasing a Sony HD300 to sync with my Grand Vega, rear-projection, Sony KDF-50WE655. The pair work beautifully together. The HD picture is now equal or better than the image I first saw at Circuit City. The annoying distorted pixel shift (at 1080i) is now GONE(!) and there is a substantial picture quality improvement in SD mode (480). As was mentioned above, "SD channels are converted to 480p...but 480p conversion looks blury." The circuitry in the Sony units automatically sync to optimize display mode and alternative modes somehow are look better and are more useable.
It's mind boggling to think people are each dropping several thousands of dollars on HD units and then tolerating the distorted pixel shift! It's hard for me to believe that the salesforce at Circuit City was "unaware" of this problem when they took my money. I won't be quick to recommend them.
Under threat to drop service, DirecTV finally acknowledged the issue, refunded the equipment charge, and included a $35 credit to boot. Given the popularity of Sony HD TVs, DirecTV better pull their head out of the sand and face the reputational risk head on. The public is not blind! The DirecTV service is only as good as the weakest link in the technology chain.
Just thought I should chime in. I just picked up the RCA 210 in December.
I don't experience any of these problems. I have had the box connected by both the component video and the DVI outputs. No red line, no pixel shift using either output. I am using a Toshiba 51H93. I currently have the TV connected with DVI set to Auto resolution. I did have to center the picture after swithing to the DVI, but that's it. The HD content looks fabulous. (OTA and D*)
The only issue I have with this box is the 4:3 SD content seems a bit stretched even though I have it set to pillar box. I see the pillars, they just aren't wide enough. Is there any way to control the width of the pillars? A service menu or something? I would prefer to have a true 4:3 instead of the slightly streched version.
Edit: I just noticed the horizontal line problem in 1080i. It is a very subtle horizontal line of distortion during vertical panning. Only noticiable if you are looking for it. Doesn't seem to be a solution on the AVS forums, just ways to minimize it.
I don't experience any of these problems. I have had the box connected by both the component video and the DVI outputs. No red line, no pixel shift using either output. I am using a Toshiba 51H93. I currently have the TV connected with DVI set to Auto resolution. I did have to center the picture after swithing to the DVI, but that's it. The HD content looks fabulous. (OTA and D*)
The only issue I have with this box is the 4:3 SD content seems a bit stretched even though I have it set to pillar box. I see the pillars, they just aren't wide enough. Is there any way to control the width of the pillars? A service menu or something? I would prefer to have a true 4:3 instead of the slightly streched version.
Edit: I just noticed the horizontal line problem in 1080i. It is a very subtle horizontal line of distortion during vertical panning. Only noticiable if you are looking for it. Doesn't seem to be a solution on the AVS forums, just ways to minimize it.
billbillw said:
I have that line problem... but if you will look at hdnet you will notice that the logo is all the way down on the bottom line of the screen. Now if you go to the preferences screen and switch it to a 4x3 tv youll notice there is a good 2 inches its cutting off. I can deal with the line problem but the cutoff pisses me off to no end. I cant set my TV to 720p because it doesnt support it. any advice?
ShadowEKU said:
That's typical overscan. A function of the TV, not the receiver. It is adjustable in the service menu. I know that its not the receiver because I have an integrated HD tuner to compare output. They are the same, as far as the amount of overscan anyway.
billbillw said:
If that is true then why does the 811 not produce this overscan? At all. I went to the service menu. The Scan ranges are adjustable for the Component, composite, and Svideo iputs but NOT on the DVI
Scratch that It was under a different name... all the inputs are labled... except DVI which ended up being "Input 6" genericly. Could anyone with an RCA tv tell me the apropriate numbers or are they TV dependant. I adjusted the horizontal line up to where i could see mor eof te picture but it kind made it bow out. Any help? if not ill get it im sure. Thanks for pointing out this wasnt a receiver issue... still not sure why it does it under the RCA as opposed to the 811... the 811 is a bigger peice of junk.
ShadowEKU said:
You really need to use a reference pattern to adjust the overscan. HDNet airs one at certain times, but I'm not sure exactly when. There is info at avsforum. When properly set, you should have about 5% overscan in each direction. Beleive it or not, the fault sometimes lies with the broadcaster. My local FOX is terrible, there logo is always cut off, on every tv that I've seen.
billbillw said:
after a few hours i gave up and went back to factory defaults. Then Enforcer calls and tells me to flip on auto resolution. Fixed. Drives me nuts.
so in the end it was the receiver.
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