Reasons why you should NOT get a 522.

You said there were times when you set timers but they didn't record anything. I don't mean to pick on you, but how can you just accept that? How can you come on a message board (where prospective customers will turn for information) and praise a product that, by your own admission, does not consistently work the way it's supposed to? Why so complacent? I just don't get it.

Like I stated, it hasn't happened enough for me to be concerned yet. Most of the time I set timers and I end up watching the show live anyway. If it does ever get to the point where it really bothers me, I will call Dish and complain.

How can I recommend it anyway? Easy. The pros outnumber the cons by far. This device is much better than my VCR, my TV Guide Plus, or even my All-In-Wonder card. All of them failed in some fashion over the years and the 522 is not only easier to use, but it has more features. I have never used TiVo, but DirecTV does not offer dual tuner systems, so I went with Dish. Maybe when they do, I might switch. By then, though, the 522 could be right up there with TiVo.

I suppose that I am 'comlacent' because I am software developer, and I understand that it is very difficult to anticipate everything a user will attempt to do with any given software. I also understand that it sometimes takes time to track down problems and resolve them. And my company charges WAY more per month for their service then what Dish does!
 
You guys are right that the 522 shouldn't have bugs like this - even though you get it for free.

Now how do you think I should feel - I paid $1000 for my 921.
 
stratguy said:
In my opinion there are 2 very simple solutions to this problem.
1. Send the unit back and buy a PVR that suites your needs of course that would cost you cash.
2. Keep the 522 which they gave you and wait until the upgrades fix all problems.

Now to me it is pretty simple :eek:

Bob

Bob, thank you for the observations but I'm not looking for solutions. I've passed that point. I've come to terms with the fact that the 522 has poorly written/implemented software, or hardware, or both. I will try the third one they're sending me (but I know how that's going to end) and then I'll cancel Dish, subscribe to DirecTV/Tivo and see how that goes. And contrary to how all of this may seem, I'm really not that hard to please. Hell, I had cable for nearly 20 years and only complained three times. Once for a mistake on my bill, once for a lengthy outage, and once for a downed line after the wind broke a tree branch in our yard.

This thread was not a call for help. It was an attempt to create a detailed list, in one place, of the problems prospective 522 customers will, or might, face. Unfortunately, the detractors of my cause have already started to try to derail the process. In a perfect world, members would add their own complaints that haven't already been listed or simply point out that their unit doesn't suffer from the problems that have plagued so many. Although most users have followed that simple format, there are still the Dish apologists who like to stroll in, attack the messenger, and take us off course. As if it were my fault that Dish takes my hard-earned money every month and refuses to address valid complaints that render their unit inoperable and/or materially different than what was advertised. Go back to page one of this thread and look at my long list of grievances. Did I make them up? Am I lying about them? The 522 has all of these problems (and more) and everyone here knows it. Of the responses from those who are against my point of view, NOT ONE has been to refute anything from my bulleted list of complaints. Lots of talk about why the 522 is "good enough," but no answer as to why paying customers should have to suffer with so many serious bugs.

And I am absolutely dumbfounded at the low level of expectations so many members here seem to have. Statements like, "Sure, it has bugs, but you get what you pay for...it's still a good deal," or "The pros outweigh the cons," are the very reason why Dish gets away with doing what they do. Just look at what SimpleSimon said. He paid a lot of money for his bug-ridden unit. Doesn't he have the right to complain? Or should everyone who has something negative to say about Dish go hide under the bed? Simon and I might not see eye to eye on every political issue, but I'll happily admit he's one of the smartest and most honest members of this community. If more people were outspoken and honest and voiced criticism when warranted, Dish would have no choice but to truly address the bugs. With so many people shutting their mouths and saying everything is fine, when it isn't, where is Dish's motivation to fix anything? Saying you're satisfied with a unit that doesn't consistently operate like it's supposed to, helps NO ONE. Not you, not me, not Dish, and not the future customers that might come here for advice. I guess I'm not really surprised they haven't made a genuine effort to fix the problems with the 522. Why even bother if all the sheep are happy with the status quo?
 
pitbull2 said:
...I have never used TiVo, but DirecTV does not offer dual tuner systems, so I went with Dish...
Ummm... my DirecTivo has dual tuners - perhaps you mean dual outputs to run two TVs from one receiver? No matter to me with two DirecTivos as I only pay one "DVR" fee per account ($5/mo.), not per DVR as Dish now does.

-------------------
Pitbull2, I certainly hope that as a software developer you and your company doesn't embrace the same bogus style of software development process that Dish seems to use.

Assuming that Dish has a limited development team and/or budget, they are probably forced to choose between fewer features (but better quality), or more features but 'buggy' boxes. (Or, they are just plain lousy in their ability to spec, design, code and test software/hardware).

Dish customers get to pay full retail price for the privilege of doing the field testing for them. As a Dish customer doesn't that make you feel special? :no

I was a Dish customer from 1996 until last fall... long ago I was a bigtime Dish fan and regular Charlie cheerleader, but the tide turned when I bought the first Dish DVR (the "Dishplayer"). I was a frequent visitor to various online forums trying to figure out how to deal with the damage the latest software download caused, or how to enter various secret codes to get the box to straighten up and fly right. The Dishplayer was a stepchild creation of a joint (yea, maybe that kind of 'joint') development project between Dish and Microsoft. Ugh.

I finally got tired of waiting for the 522 (which I would not have been allowed to purchase anyway) and got two DirecTivos instead - which I'm now enjoying greatly... and I'm not forum-bound with my tongue hanging out for some new feature rollout or bug-du-jour fix either.

Many people have the expectation that Dish receivers will be 'buggy' for the first year of their release, but there is no such expectation with DirecTV receivers - why is that?
 
video62 said:
Ummm... my DirecTivo has dual tuners - perhaps you mean dual outputs to run two TVs from one receiver? No matter to me with two DirecTivos as I only pay one "DVR" fee per account ($5/mo.), not per DVR as Dish now does.

That is what I meant. I have four TVs hooked up (a 522 and a 322) and I only pay one extra reciever feed. With DirecTV, the extra fee would be $15. So, assuming that I don't have the Everything Pack from Dish, DirecTV would cost me $120 more per year for the same setup.

-------------------
Pitbull2, I certainly hope that as a software developer you and your company doesn't embrace the same bogus style of software development process that Dish seems to use.

I can't speak for Dish, but the companies that I have worked for do business in generally the same way:

1. Management wants software with new features realeased as soon as possible, usually because they promised it to customers with an unreasonable release date.
2. QA and the Devo team say it's not ready and more testing is needed. They push the release date so that it is more reasonable.
3. Customers call Management and threaten to quit unless they get the new features.
4. Management overrides QA and the software is released.

Companies try to find a compromise point or the product may never get released. That point is usually the most features and bug fixes that affect the most customers (or the ones that are paying the most).
 
I have had the 522 for about a month now and was really impressed with Dish's customer service. However, I have experienced several of the bugs/gliches that was listed by ChrisCoop. And contrary to what Bizzach said, half of them happen well over 5% of the time.

I am in agreement with the "you get what you pay for" motto (which in my case was very little since I signed up on the "club dish" plan), but that does not mean I don't get frustrated every time these gliches occur.

This is the first dvr system I have had and absolutely love the concept. I admit that my motive for choosing Dish was strictly monetary, but I wish E* would PLEASE address some of these problems.

That's just my $.02. Great thread.

On a side note, is there anywhere one can get info on what the actual changes are in the upgrades? I don't seem to notice any difference with the L168.

Thanks in advance.
 
I don't like the bugs that the 522 has either.
As soon as I find another service that offeres a dual tuner/dual output DVR with the same (or better) features
that is more reliable
with free installation
and a $35/month total subscription (or less) for the same (or better) channel lineup
I'm going to switch too.
 
maximum said:
I don't like the bugs that the 522 has either.
As soon as I find another service that offeres a dual tuner/dual output DVR with the same (or better) features
that is more reliable
with free installation
and a $35/month total subscription (or less) for the same (or better) channel lineup
I'm going to switch too.


Good luck in finding one. In the mean time, Im going to be enjoying my dual output DVR.
 
video62 said:
Dish customers get to pay full retail price for the privilege of doing the field testing for them. As a Dish customer doesn't that make you feel special? :no

Well, considering that "full retail price" I pay for the use of a dual tuner 100 hour PVR is essentially zero, I guess I do feel special.

Heck, I am willing to accept the argument I am paying $5/month to rent the thing (though I think it is better to consider the full package value compared to other providers). At that price, it is still a great deal. For me, it replaced 2 VCRs. That is more than a year's worth of PVR rental right there. And if I wanted to record that Deep Space Nine marathon, well the I would need 4 tapes and have to stay home to swap them. I have never had a failed recording, but even if that were a problem on my box, the fact is that I still can successfully record far more TV than I ever could with VCRs, and the price is actually less.

So, yeah, I do feel special.
 
Bizzach said:
Thanks for the heated discussion, and again, thanks to all the Dish'ers out there who put up with the bugs - knowing full well they'll be resolved in the short future! :)

"Bugs"

Deja Vue...this is where I came in (LOL)! I've worked in computing for 36 years starting as a Section supervisor in 1968 of NAVALSEASYSTEMS Command's COBOL standardization project in Crystal City. We worked with Admiral Hopper's Harvard contractor crew when she was recalled from retirement.

In those days "bug" was used for both hardware and software glitches, although old Gracie didn't actually coin the term "bug".

So, after 36 years of "debugging" software/hardware computer glitches, both in the Army Corps of Engineers and the Navy, perhaps I've become forgiving of most commercial electronics design deficiencies, as long as the unit does fulfill its basic mission. And perhaps after years of seeing so many multi-billion dollar malfunctioning electronics and weapons systems which could never ever be "debugged" even after decades of redesign and change orders by contractors and NAVSEA engineers, I can forgive the 522 minor deficiencies and wait for improvement.

I was a bit hard on ChrisCoop. I admired Chris taking the time to carefully iterate all the problems he experienced, as his list can do nothing but help the 522's development, but I felt had to respond when I saw his strong response to your post. I too, believe prospective 522 subscribers should not be dissuaded from trying the 522 SOLELY on his recommendation.

And as to the MAC crack, I do use Windows at home now, but I bought my first Apple III in 1982, and have owned many Apples in the last 20 years.
 
SimpleSimon said:
You guys are right that the 522 shouldn't have bugs like this - even though you get it for free.

Now how do you think I should feel - I paid $1000 for my 921.

Simon your just lucky they chose you as a "you pay them and the'll let you debug their software" How lucky can a guy get. Just think how good that will look on your resume "Beta tester for Dish Network" Heck that alone is worth the price. :D :D :D
Just having fun Simon

Bob
 
stratguy said:
Simon your just lucky they chose you as a "you pay them and the'll let you debug their software" How lucky can a guy get. Just think how good that will look on your resume "Beta tester for Dish Network" Heck that alone is worth the price. :D :D :D
Just having fun Simon

Bob
I haven't tried to dust off my resume. :D Nobody wants to hire an old man like me - even though I can design & code circles around any 2 kids you want to pick.
 
You only get what you paid for??

I got my 522 "Free" also, but I am paying $80/month for 2 years for it, with my programming package, so Dish probably has a break even point well before that time frame. 6 months maybe? They are looking for volume. I think they just went past 10M customers recently, and the only way to do that fast is to buy the business.
Mine was pretty buggy until the last couple of updates, then I can't say it is too bad of a DVR. But then the HD crashed after 5 months, can happen I know, but if it does again, then they do have a QA problem, or I better buy a lottery ticket. I have to say swap out procedure with Dish was easy.
 
You are paying $80/month for your 522? How much is your progamming package without renting equipment? It should be $5/month less. I doubt very much that after 6 months, Dish is making a profit on a 522.
 
Sapient said:
You are paying $80/month for your 522? How much is your progamming package without renting equipment? It should be $5/month less. I doubt very much that after 6 months, Dish is making a profit on a 522.

Of course the $80/month includes the programming, $5 Pvr, $5 lease program.
My point is just because the 522 appears to be "free", you shouldn't expect any less than if you paid $500 outright for it.
 
Just a bit of back up info on Dish and echo products: I've been working with Dish for going on 5 years now, and I've seen every receiver from the 1000 to the 721. The worst probaly being the 7000 model, which, for those of you unfamiler, is one of the first pvr receivers, but add web tv to that. This receiver, when first introduced, had as many, if not more problems than any 522, and it took close to a year to fix them all. Now fast foward a few years to the introduction of the 501 (the first DP PVR). Huge problems, hard drives crashing, signal loss, constant updates, constant reboots, constant pixiling problems, in marches the 508, some problems fixed, some remain, here comes the 510, most all problems fixed.... Moral of the story, all you new customers are basicaly beta testing the new 522, its only a few months old. I know it is a a head ache for the customes, but is a bigger headache for techs. My suggestion: Downgrade to 1 510 receiver, and throw a 301/311 in your second room. You'll lose the PVR funtions in the second room, but it will be more stable than the 522.
 
Or you could always use the stand alone tivo and get a basic dish network receiver. Something I wish they hadn't suckered me into getting the 522.
 
Or you could always use a stand alone tivo and get a basic dish network receiver. Something I wish they hadn't suckered me into getting the 522.
 

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