Receivers compatable in a new install

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SatelliteGuys Pro
Original poster
Jul 19, 2022
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Shreveport Louisiana USA
As everyone knows by now, my grandpa is going to get dish, what receivers besides the hopper are comparable with a sat that gets installed at this current point in time for new installs with a hopper 2. Would a vip222k or a 211k or a 722k work? Or would it be incompatible
 
If you get a hopper installed it will be with hybrid equipment and is not compatible with vip receivers. There's ways to do it from a single dish but requires a different configuration and external switches that the tech isn't going to install for you. You would need to buy it all yourself.
 
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If you get a hopper installed it will be with hybrid equipment and is not compatible with vip receivers. There's ways to do it from a single dish but requires a different configuration and external switches that the tech isn't going to install for you. You would need to buy it all yourself.
what would this stuff be exactly?
 
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hybrid equipment and is not compatible with vip receivers.
Not exactly. Hybrid equipment has a DPP retro compatibility mode, I have gone as far back as connecting a 322 to a Hybrid LNBF without issue. The LNBF does have limitations, like disabling port 2 in the presence of a Hybrid receiver, but you can run dual 722’s or even dual Hopper1/2’s on one if you really needed to.
 
Not exactly. Hybrid equipment has a DPP retro compatibility mode, I have gone as far back as connecting a 322 to a Hybrid LNBF without issue. The LNBF does have limitations, like disabling port 2 in the presence of a Hybrid receiver, but you can run dual 722’s or even dual Hopper1/2’s on one if you really needed to.
how would i go by doing this?
 
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Not exactly. Hybrid equipment has a DPP retro compatibility mode, I have gone as far back as connecting a 322 to a Hybrid LNBF without issue. The LNBF does have limitations, like disabling port 2 in the presence of a Hybrid receiver, but you can run dual 722’s or even dual Hopper1/2’s on one if you really needed to.
Technically sure they will work but it's not designed for it and can cause issues down the road. (I said can not will, it may not). But it's always best to use what it was designed to be used with.
Port two is only disabled when used with a hopper3
And we've always been able to run dual hopper 1 and 2, as it's designed for that.
 
Technically sure they will work but it's not designed for it and can cause issues down the road. (I said can not will, it may not).
Unless it’s a power draw issue (which I guess is entirely posible especially with how weird slimlines can be), I don’t see any issues as DPP tech is interoperable with DPX (I’ll elaborate below).

But it's always best to use what it was designed to be used with.
Oh yeah, for sure. If I worked for Dish or any of their contractors (with the current Dish as it is, I probably wouldn’t) I would stick to what’s in the book more then anything as a CYA, but a little bit of “this will work in a pinch” knowledge never hurts.

Port two is only disabled when used with a hopper3
And Duo’s/Wally, even though they would be fine with DPP. On the flip side you can channel stack them which is neat.

And we've always been able to run dual hopper 1 and 2, as it's designed for that.
Now back to DPX. DPX is just a DPP signal with a third tuner stacked on top, and is what the Hopper1/2 requires for its three tuners. In the past a Node would perform the stacking of the third tuner with DPP setups, and now Hybrid LNBs have this functionality integrated from the get go. When you connect a DPP (dual tuner) receiver to a DPX line, or a DP (solo tuner) receiver to a DPP/DPX line, the receiver simply ignores the unnecessary tuners on the upper end of the frequency spectrum and uses what it needs on the lower end. This has been the case since the way early days of the DPP33/44 being capable of feeding a DP111 (heh remember that piece of garbage?). What I’m getting at in conclusion is that the underlying technology (DPX) is not only technically compatible, but quite literally by design made to be interoperable with DP/DPP as well. So:

Hybrid capable of DPX = capable of DPP/DP.

Again, and you are absolutely in the right here, if there was (for example) some oversight where VIP’s provide too-little/too-much power to a connected Hybrid LNB then that could be an issue, but the fact that the technology and underlying architecture is 100% compatible makes me think that that would be a hell of a screw up.
 
Unless it’s a power draw issue (which I guess is entirely posible especially with how weird slimlines can be), I don’t see any issues as DPP tech is interoperable with DPX (I’ll elaborate below).


Oh yeah, for sure. If I worked for Dish or any of their contractors (with the current Dish as it is, I probably wouldn’t) I would stick to what’s in the book more then anything as a CYA, but a little bit of “this will work in a pinch” knowledge never hurts.


And Duo’s/Wally, even though they would be fine with DPP. On the flip side you can channel stack them which is neat.


Now back to DPX. DPX is just a DPP signal with a third tuner stacked on top, and is what the Hopper1/2 requires for its three tuners. In the past a Node would perform the stacking of the third tuner with DPP setups, and now Hybrid LNBs have this functionality integrated from the get go. When you connect a DPP (dual tuner) receiver to a DPX line, or a DP (solo tuner) receiver to a DPP/DPX line, the receiver simply ignores the unnecessary tuners on the upper end of the frequency spectrum and uses what it needs on the lower end. This has been the case since the way early days of the DPP33/44 being capable of feeding a DP111 (heh remember that piece of garbage?). What I’m getting at in conclusion is that the underlying technology (DPX) is not only technically compatible, but quite literally by design made to be interoperable with DP/DPP as well. So:

Hybrid capable of DPX = capable of DPP/DP.

Again, and you are absolutely in the right here, if there was (for example) some oversight where VIP’s provide too-little/too-much power to a connected Hybrid LNB then that could be an issue, but the fact that the technology and underlying architecture is 100% compatible makes me think that that would be a hell of a screw up.
As somewhat related to this issue, I currently have a DPP LNB driving a Hybrid DPU42 switch that then drives a Hopper3 and VIP receiver. Has been working just fine. But it looks like that DPP LNB may be getting sick and could need replacing (it’s very old).

Instead just replacing it with another DPP LNB, could I use a Hybrid LNB to feed into the Hybrid DPH42 switch and still drive the Hopper3 and VIP receiver?

I assume that would just connecting ports 1 and 2 of the Hybrid LNB to ports 1 and 2 of the DPH42 And nothing on the output side the switch would need to change.
 
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Instead just replacing it with another DPP LNB, could I use a Hybrid LNB to feed into the Hybrid DPH42 switch and still drive the Hopper3 and VIP receiver?

I assume that would just connecting ports 1 and 2 of the Hybrid LNB to ports 1 and 2 of the DPH42 And nothing on the output side the switch would need to change.
This will work, but you would be in the previously mentioned “works but not by design” territory. If you are feeling adventurous or just want something temporary you can try and see if it holds up, but if you don’t want to risk possibly damaging your equipment you’re better off getting a new DPP (good luck finding one).

If you do end up using a Hybrid LNB let us know after a few months your findings, previously people have posted having success doing it but never reported anything back.
 
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This will work, but you would be in the previously mentioned “works but not by design” territory. If you are feeling adventurous or just want something temporary you can try and see if it holds up, but if you don’t want to risk possibly damaging your equipment you’re better off getting a new DPP (good luck finding one).

If you do end up using a Hybrid LNB let us know after a few months your findings, previously people have posted having success doing it but never reported anything back.
That’s what I thought, thanks. And Solid Signal still sells DPP LNBs.

Do you have any specific thoughts about what might get damaged, or is your comment just about ”works but not by design” unknowns.
 
And Solid Signal still sells DPP LNBs.
Can almost guarantee they are refurbs. You never know though.

Do you have any specific thoughts about what might get damaged, or is your comment just about ”works but not by design” unknowns.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head, it’s unknowns. If you search the forum you will find some people it worked for, and I even tried it out myself out of curiosity and the switch identified the LNB without an issue. The problem is that we don’t have any factual evidence of the setup being reliable in the long run. In my case I had to go back to a DPP because a Hybrid LNB can only feed two satellites and back then 129 was still necessary. I could theorize all day about what may or may not happen but at the end of the day it would all be theory until you have actual long term testing in the field. To make matters worst, Dish being a national service makes the amount of variables to consider almost impossible to keep up with.

I’ll give you an example that is similar in nature to what we are talking about, but with much more exposure: Both wired and wireless Joey’s can communicate via Ethernet to their host Hopper. This is a well known thing that Dish does not condone/recommend. I won’t dive in to the details on why this works, but the theory is similar in that the underlying technology being used over MoCA/WiFi is the same if you connect via Ethernet meaning it’s another “works but not by design”. The difference here is that there has been years and years of people having success with this setup, myself included with my hardwired Wireless Joey, that the community has pretty much established it as a posible alternative if your coax run gets damaged or the wireless reception sucks at the Joey location.
 
Can almost guarantee they are refurbs. You never know though.
Oh yes, I assume almost all Dish equipment on Solid Signal is refurbs or overstock. It’s all we have to work with these days. :)
If you search the forum you will find some people it worked for, and I even tried it out myself out of curiosity and the switch identified the LNB without an issue. The problem is that we don’t have any factual evidence of the setup being reliable in the long run. In my case I had to go back to a DPP because a Hybrid LNB can only feed two satellites and back then 129 was still necessary.
A good point I didn’t explicitly state. I wouldn’t even consider this option if it weren’t for the fact that 129 is now decommissioned and we now only need two satellites for the WA.

But I think we can put some “unknowns” in perspective. The fact that multiple folks have tried this out (including yourself) indicates there’s likely a low probability that something electrical would go wrong; i.e., burn something up. We would have likely already heard about that by now if something catastrophic happens when this was tried. But then as you correctly point out, only long term testing/use would bear that conclusion out.

Also, since it seems to work, it would also seem that from a protocol standpoint there’s likely a low probability of failure. But the caveat again, we’d have to try all permutations to prove that.

Hence, given all of this, it would seem to be low risk to use this configuration (though I can’t help but think of the quote “ famous last words” :eeek). So I will likely try this out and consider myself a guinea pig for everyone else.

BTW, a buddy ask me a question, can a Hopper1/2 be driven by Hybrid switches and hubs?
 

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